Character Discussion I finally understand Garp

#1
A thread without powerscaling in mind, it has been a while!

I could never really get into Garp because his character always left me confused. He hates the Celestial Dragons and refuses to follow orders, yet he stayed in an organization that serves them for several decades. Consider his inaction at Marineford: despite his deep sadness, he did nothing to help Ace (actually no, he did let Luffy get past him) yet people often point out how he’s more like a pirate with his free spirit than a Marine. His character always seemed like Oda wanted to create a Marine uffy but couldn't find a coherent way to make it work.

It finally clicked the moment I saw this scene and how dumb I was for overthinking it.

"That's such a Luffy line! I finally get you, Garp!"

Luffy's crew s his primary drive; they're like his family. If they were gone, I don't think he'd care about becoming the Pirate King. There's no scenario where Luffy would ever leave one of them behind if it was up to himself.
Garp's crew are the Marine soldiers—they're his family. Maybe, like Luffy and Shanks, Garp was inspired by a cool Marine soldier to join them. Maybe he simply wanted to protect people from criminals, but his initial motive isn't really that relevant. What I mean to say is that even if Garp realized how rotten the World Government was (he replies, "I'm with you there" when Roger points out the affront to justice that God Valley represents), by that point, the Marines became his family, and he can't just leave them. It's a ride-or-die situation.

TheWillOfMarco on Twitter explained that the term (海兵) Garp used in the original text specifically refers to individual Marines, not the organization as a whole.


Interestingly, when asked about a spin-off Oda said he'd like to draw Garp's relationship with various marines (& CP and Roger).
The difference between Luffy and Garp is a matter of scale : Luffy's crew is made of 10 members while Garp is made of 500 000 and can't handpick them all, but at core the feeling is the same.

I've heard some say that the flashback made Garp's character even worse for staying in the Marines after witnessing the GV incident, but Oda essentially absolved him of the accusations of not caring :




To end this, Garp was introduced wearing a dog hat
This fits him so well. Dogs are pack animals; they want to belong in a pack and are extremely loyal to the group. The Marine soldiers are Garp's pack.

Garp is fully aware the WG is rotten. He has made his hatred of the Celestial Dragons vocal many times, but like Luffy, he's loyal to a fault to his people. We can criticize him for not pulling a Dragon, but his choice to stay for his pack makes him very human. His behavior in Marineford makes sense, too. Ace was his family, but would he pick one family member over thousands of them? You can fault his sense loyalty to the pack being stronger than his wish to take down the WG, but again isn't that human?

Is Garp a good character? I know users that disagree with that notion heavily, but I no longer have any genuine issue regarding his writing itself.

At very least, he truly deserves to be called the Hero of the Marines.
 
#3
This is a good view of him, and it makes sense given his mentoring of Kuzan, Koby etc.

I think the fundamental issue with Garp so far is that he's been very inconsistent :

- Is allegedly a good guy defiant Marine with "My Justice" who defies the WG
- Also obedient and seemingly does their will even when it comes to executing Ace

The problem is that these two aspects have so far opposed each other. Garp is like Kaido, the story portrays him in one way and then shows him doing something opposed to that portrayal.

I'd also argue that Kizaru and Fujitora represent Garp's two sides better than he himself does:

- Issho DOES try to fix the system and actively defies the WG even when it comes to slaves he has no relation to. He also has no connections to the Revs like Garp and was not involved in anything like GV.

- Borsalino does serve the WG, but this makes sense as he lacks Garp's rebelliousness, is probably obligated to stay in the Navy thanks to his close relationship to Akainu and did actively defy the WG in EH when it really mattered.

Having it so that Garp stays with the Navy out of obligation for the people he's close to is good.

It gives his character a bit of nuance, highlights his similarity to Luffy and is a sympathetic reason for him to stay with the WG IMO.
 
#4
This is a good view of him, and it makes sense given his mentoring of Kuzan, Koby etc.

I think the fundamental issue with Garp so far is that he's been very inconsistent :

- Is allegedly a good guy defiant Marine with "My Justice" who defies the WG
- Also obedient and seemingly does their will even when it comes to executing Ace

The problem is that these two aspects have so far opposed each other. Garp is like Kaido, the story portrays him in one way and then shows him doing something opposed to that portrayal.

I'd also argue that Kizaru and Fujitora represent Garp's two sides better than he himself does:

- Issho DOES try to fix the system and actively defies the WG even when it comes to slaves he has no relation to. He also has no connections to the Revs like Garp and was not involved in anything like GV.

- Borsalino does serve the WG, but this makes sense as he lacks Garp's rebelliousness, is probably obligated to stay in the Navy thanks to his close relationship to Akainu and did actively defy the WG in EH when it really mattered.

Having it so that Garp stays with the Navy out of obligation for the people he's close to is good.

It gives his character a bit of nuance, highlights his similarity to Luffy and is a sympathetic reason for him to stay with the WG IMO.
You summed up the issues I had with Garp and why I think him staying out of a loyalty or even love for the marine individuals work.
It could be seen as a lousy parallel but what if Garp had the marine equivalent of a Shanks as a kid? He seemed really unruly and like a future pirate, what if he got into a fight with pirates or bandits and a marine saved his life and thus felt forever gratitude like Luffy? That could have been his initial reason for choosing this path.


Oda said he could come up with a magnificient story about Garp, i'd like to know what he had his mind one day.
 
#5
Issho DOES try to fix the system and actively defies the WG even when it comes to slaves he has no relation to.
The fact Garp actively refuses to become admiral and goes on fighting Saturn-Mu alongside pirates is as much defiance as you can get. Fujitora's acts are drops in the bucket. Garp's only surpassed by Kuzan who just left and joined Blackbeard. There is no fixing this system from within and that's I guess not what Garp even tries to achieve.
 
#6
It could be seen as a lousy parallel but what if Garp had the marine equivalent of a Shanks as a kid? He seemed really unruly and like a future pirate, what if he got into a fight with pirates or bandits and a marine saved his life and thus felt forever gratitude like Luffy?
It seems pretty viable.

You could also go for the love interest route instead of mentor figure, I think.

Make Luffy's grandma a Marine who died at the hands of pirates causing Garp to take up a position with them to avenge/remember her or something.

He has to have SOME reason for joining the Marines honestly.

Oda said he could come up with a magnificient story about Garp, i'd like to know what he had his mind one day.
We could've gotten a movie about this but nooooo, let's have Film Rat with some damn school idol OC who can summon demons and shit
:josad:
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That fact Garp actively refuses to become admiral and goes on fighting Saturn-Mu alongside pirates is as much defiance as you can get. Fujitora's acts are drops in the bucket. It's only surpassed by Kuzan who just left and joined Blackbeard. There is no fixing this system from within and that's I guess not what Garp even tries to achieve.
I think for me it's more that Garp's actions are passive, outside of fighting Imuturn and maybe SWORD he's just doing nothing.

And considering the stalemate in the current OP verse what exactly is Garp's refusal to become Admiral achieving?

He still fights pirates, he still serves the Navy etc. I'm really not sure what Garp specifically could do in current conditions that other Admirals couldn't tbh.

Whereas with Fuji there's a lot more active defiance, he's fighting other Admirals, helping Revs free slaves and apologizing for the Navy, and he's doing all this while being a war criminal.

So he seems more impressive in this regard.

About fixing the system I kinda agree but the system isn't completely useless. CDs and corruption aside the Navy does protect people.
 
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#10
Garp staying to protect a few good eggs and those he cares about within the marines is a nice touch. It won’t protect him from slander as his son dragon learned of what happened the same day he did and realized for all the good the marines do they also do there fair share of horrific things. Throughout the story we get bits and pieces of marines being corrupt and Garps presence hasn’t helped enough for any significant difference. Dragon and Luffy will force the change and the Marines (Sword led by Koby) pull a Bran Stark and will be rewarded at the end.
 
#12
From romance dawn v2 one shot

Garp & Luffy (and Dragon) have the same motivation, the reason they can't choose a straightforward path is because the WG exists and is in the way, as perfectly illustrated through Harald's story. Every attempt at maintaining friendly relations has to be done as a workaround taking the WG existence into account.

They technically belong to the same 'organization' of architects of the new era, only that true affiliation is obscured by the structure established by the WG that forces every person to superficially exist as a member of one of the factions (pirate, marine, civilian) by name. Dragon is the first one who broke this structure by forcing the WG to create the new faction 'revolutionaries' and Dragon himself the 'world's worst criminal'(which nonetheless is yet another superficial categorisation imposed by the world government, not representative of true goals, motivations and actions).

If we remove the WG all problems aren't solved.
People will still have disagreements, opposing goals, different cultures etc but the greatest threat to peaceful relations&exchange between people will be gone and the 'good guys' can work from here on out.
 
#17
It's particularly interesting how he and his son picked different paths over the same reason.
Garp staying to protect a few good eggs and those he cares about within the marines is a nice touch. It won’t protect him from slander as his son dragon learned of what happened the same day he did and realized for all the good the marines do they also do there fair share of horrific things. Throughout the story we get bits and pieces of marines being corrupt and Garps presence hasn’t helped enough for any significant difference. Dragon and Luffy will force the change and the Marines (Sword led by Koby) pull a Bran Stark and will be rewarded at the end.
I'd say one major potential difference between Garp and Dragon is that Dragon witnessed first hand the atrocities of the WG as a fresh recruit, he likely became disillusioned with the organization before he could form strong bonds and feel tied to them.
Garp might only have came in direct contact with the celestial dragons years after joining, as evil as the WG is, not every single island is the target of a genocide game or practice slavery. By the point Garp became aware of that it's possible he already saw the marines as his family.

The fact Garp actively refuses to become admiral and goes on fighting Saturn-Mu alongside pirates is as much defiance as you can get. Fujitora's acts are drops in the bucket. Garp's only surpassed by Kuzan who just left and joined Blackbeard. There is no fixing this system from within and that's I guess not what Garp even tries to achieve.
On top of it I believe Issho doesn't feel much ties to the marine, he joined it two years ago in his fifties as a man that was already conscious of all the atrocities in the world (see the reason why he blinded himself) with an agenda of his own, it's a very different case from Garp.
 
#19
On top of it I believe Issho doesn't feel much ties to the marine, he joined it two years ago in his fifties as a man that was already conscious of all the atrocities in the world (see the reason why he blinded himself) with an agenda of his own, it's a very different case from Garp
Also wasn't Issho drafted? If so then he didn't join of his own will, he was Shanghai'd into it.
 
#20
Sengoku feels impossible, because he has been explicitly portrayed as a WG whore. Sengoku: "are you doubting the WG?!"

As he went on commanding the murder of pregnant women associated with Roger.
Let at least one of the higher marines stay on the bad side. The admirals are already running away, the only one I'm not positive he'll turn on the WG is Ryokugyu but that's because we've barely seen him do anything.
 
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