Fanclub Temple of The Grandmaster Zoro
I’m hoping Oda name-drops Mihawk in Wano soon so that Zoro has a more tangible goal to aim for. Right now we know that Zoro is going to surpass Oden but how did Oden compare to Mihawk? Did Kawamatsu ever at least hear about him? What about Kyoshiro? It’s clear that Oda hasn’t forgotten about Mihawk but it’s hard to pinpoint how and where his name could come up in Wano given that Act 3 seems to be about the fire festival and the alliance’s traitor.
Anyone got any ideas? :unsure:
Anyone got any ideas? :unsure:
zoro has to state that he will be wss as always and somebody from wano could tell story about mihawk after hear about it if oda has any plan on it ..but i have doubts
Bec of oda's pace seems off to me in this days. Imo he has to explain why Wb didnt go for Kaido after he took life of somebody from Wb's family.. seems totaly uncharasteristic to me right now.. Oda wants to connect some big names with Oden but denies his char's personalities without single explanations and writes many shitty chapters at udon..Hope Oda will come up with an answer at full oden flashback.. For extra bash , an outsider has Wado , sandai and Shusui in his hands but Tenguyama doesnt ask single question about how he got all these wano related swords , with that Oda kills or postpones Koshiro family and shimotsuki connection plots , bec of he wanna speed up story suddenly at parts which could be interesting
Bec of oda's pace seems off to me in this days. Imo he has to explain why Wb didnt go for Kaido after he took life of somebody from Wb's family.. seems totaly uncharasteristic to me right now.. Oda wants to connect some big names with Oden but denies his char's personalities without single explanations and writes many shitty chapters at udon..Hope Oda will come up with an answer at full oden flashback.. For extra bash , an outsider has Wado , sandai and Shusui in his hands but Tenguyama doesnt ask single question about how he got all these wano related swords , with that Oda kills or postpones Koshiro family and shimotsuki connection plots , bec of he wanna speed up story suddenly at parts which could be interesting
Difficult to pinpoint precisely. Mihawk>Oden is assured, imo. Oden was probably a low top tier, Old Ray level, who managed to fight with Kaido and inflict a wound on him but in the end got boiled alive. That was 20 years ago, Kaido was probably not as strong as he is now. But what is also good to note is what they say here
seems like Orochi had something to do with it, probably betrayal that lead to Kaido defeating Oden. The above panel may also suggest that Oden managed to scar Kaido and successfully retreat, because had he been caught then and there he would not have been able to leave his swords behind. I could interpret it as him scarring Kaido, retreating with his allies and then being betrayed by Orochi.
Due to Wano being a closed off country, I would not be surprised if they do not know about Mihawk, bar maybe Kyoshiro who is allied with Orochi and thus maybe has more intel regarding the outside world. Maybe Mihawk went to Wano and gave Kaido one of his losses.
A good time to name-drop Mihawk might be in the aftermath, when everyone is defeated and someone asks Zoro how he became that strong, or what is his desire and goal. And Zoro hyping Mihawk up by repeating the same line he had with Pica. Or something in the vein of this. I got strong being trained by the strongest and even though I was able to fight here with absurdly strong people I am still far far away from him. Something like that.
On the other hand, I wanted to ask all of you about what you think about this. Is it me or does Oden's sword look a bit different in these pics. I do not know about the proper names, so I will call them petals and curvy things lol.
Here it appears to have this curvy thing
Here it appears to have these 4 petals.
But everywhere alse Enma, and Habakiri appear to have 3 of those petals.
Or am I just seeing things? Or not seeing them properly?
Due to Wano being a closed off country, I would not be surprised if they do not know about Mihawk, bar maybe Kyoshiro who is allied with Orochi and thus maybe has more intel regarding the outside world. Maybe Mihawk went to Wano and gave Kaido one of his losses.
A good time to name-drop Mihawk might be in the aftermath, when everyone is defeated and someone asks Zoro how he became that strong, or what is his desire and goal. And Zoro hyping Mihawk up by repeating the same line he had with Pica. Or something in the vein of this. I got strong being trained by the strongest and even though I was able to fight here with absurdly strong people I am still far far away from him. Something like that.
On the other hand, I wanted to ask all of you about what you think about this. Is it me or does Oden's sword look a bit different in these pics. I do not know about the proper names, so I will call them petals and curvy things lol.
Here it appears to have this curvy thing
Or am I just seeing things? Or not seeing them properly?
ISDS is G4 level attack. the only attack stronger than ISDS is King Kong Gun, with Leo Bazooka close behind ISDS.
My headcanon: "20 Years ago, Mihawk came to Wano in order to seek challenge from the infamous Wano Samurai on his path towards becoming the strongest swordsman. There, he battled Oden and seriously wounding him, before he then left Wano after winning his duel with Oden. Just a few days after the duel of Mihawk and Oden, upon receiving information from Orochi that Oden was on a weakened state, Kaido and his army landed on Wano. While still recovering from the wounds he receive from Mihawk, Oden set out with his samurais to confront Kaido. Oden was capable of holding off Kaido and even injure him, but because of he was still not recovered from his battle against Mihawk, Oden eventually lose to Kaido, leading to his death."
My headcanon: "20 Years ago, Mihawk came to Wano in order to seek challenge from the infamous Wano Samurai on his path towards becoming the strongest swordsman. There, he battled Oden and seriously wounding him, before he then left Wano after winning his duel with Oden. Just a few days after the duel of Mihawk and Oden, upon receiving information from Orochi that Oden was on a weakened state, Kaido and his army landed on Wano. While still recovering from the wounds he receive from Mihawk, Oden set out with his samurais to confront Kaido. Oden was capable of holding off Kaido and even injure him, but because of he was still not recovered from his battle against Mihawk, Oden eventually lose to Kaido, leading to his death."
I would like it if Oden argued for Wano to be opened up because he went to the outside world and battled swordmasters like Mihawk and Ray. He might have argued that if Wano continued to be complacent and isolate itself, the world would move on and surpass them. And lo and behold, he was right. The current WSS is not a Wano native and may well have taken a supreme grade sword from Wano.
There's definitely going to be something with Kyoshiro and Zoro in the future, wonder if either party will end up bringing Mihawk or Koshiro's name into the mix :unsure:
LMFAOOO if that gets revealed, half the fandom is gonna get an aneurysm
Hmm interesting catch. It could mean Oden got the two swords later in life or it could be another one of Oda's drawing inconsistencies... hard to tell
There's definitely going to be something with Kyoshiro and Zoro in the future, wonder if either party will end up bringing Mihawk or Koshiro's name into the mix :unsure:
LMFAOOO if that gets revealed, half the fandom is gonna get an aneurysm
Hmm interesting catch. It could mean Oden got the two swords later in life or it could be another one of Oda's drawing inconsistencies... hard to tell
I would like it if Oden argued for Wano to be opened up because he went to the outside world and battled swordmasters like Mihawk and Ray. He might have argued that if Wano continued to be complacent and isolate itself, the world would move on and surpass them. And lo and behold, he was right. The current WSS is not a Wano native and may well have taken a supreme grade sword from Wano.
There's definitely going to be something with Kyoshiro and Zoro in the future, wonder if either party will end up bringing Mihawk or Koshiro's name into the mix :unsure:
LMFAOOO if that gets revealed, half the fandom is gonna get an aneurysm
Hmm interesting catch. It could mean Oden got the two swords later in life or it could be another one of Oda's drawing inconsistencies... hard to tell
There's definitely going to be something with Kyoshiro and Zoro in the future, wonder if either party will end up bringing Mihawk or Koshiro's name into the mix :unsure:
LMFAOOO if that gets revealed, half the fandom is gonna get an aneurysm
Hmm interesting catch. It could mean Oden got the two swords later in life or it could be another one of Oda's drawing inconsistencies... hard to tell
Kyoshiro seems to be an interesting character. I do not know where Oda is going with him, maybe he wants to make him to be Denjiro.
I'd wager even more than half.
Thanks. I would also like to think it is an inconsistency, however the curvy thing and the 4 petals are from the same chapter, that's why I started wondering. Maybe Oda was just too lazy when drawing that scene lol.
You do understand that KKG was Luffy's strongest attack, right?
Meanwhile for Zoro, there's still Ashura which was Zoro's strongest attacks pre TS, which would have been upgraded during the TS. With there's a possibility that he might have even stronger attack than that which he learnt during TS akin to G4 and HM.
So, basically, you're comparing an all out Luffy against a non all out Zoro / base Zoro. With base Zoro was already having G4 level attacks and without the time limit and the Haki drawback, not saying that Zoro could then spam it tho.
So to summarize your post above, G4 Luffy >= Base Zoro
Meanwhile for Zoro, there's still Ashura which was Zoro's strongest attacks pre TS, which would have been upgraded during the TS. With there's a possibility that he might have even stronger attack than that which he learnt during TS akin to G4 and HM.
So, basically, you're comparing an all out Luffy against a non all out Zoro / base Zoro. With base Zoro was already having G4 level attacks and without the time limit and the Haki drawback, not saying that Zoro could then spam it tho.
So to summarize your post above, G4 Luffy >= Base Zoro
G
Point is that what we've seen from post ts Luffy >>> what we've seen from post ts Zoro.
Zoro's best feat to this point was his Pica fight, and even tho it wasn't a dangerous fight for him, he did put his bandana on near the end, so he still clearly put in A LOT of effort to finish the fight.
Also, after chapter 955, whatever Zoro does from now will count as Zoro after a power-up, so that solidifies the Pica fight as his greatest post-timeskip feat prior to getting a power-up
Zoro's best feat to this point was his Pica fight, and even tho it wasn't a dangerous fight for him, he did put his bandana on near the end, so he still clearly put in A LOT of effort to finish the fight.
Also, after chapter 955, whatever Zoro does from now will count as Zoro after a power-up, so that solidifies the Pica fight as his greatest post-timeskip feat prior to getting a power-up
I don't think it's fair to scale Zoro purely off his current onscreen feats (most of which have been very impressive anyway). Oda has been very secretive about Zoro and his training and has yet to give Zoro a proper fight.
- Zoro vs Hyouzou - Zoro previously neg diffed Hody underwater and proceeded to neg diff Hyouzou, the strongest swordsman of FMI
- Zoro vs Pica - Once Zoro figured out how to stop Pica assimilating with the stone and escaping, he destroyed him. Was shown panting and sweating after ISDS but bear in mind he was thrown through the air and was suffering from wind pressure
- Zoro vs Kamazou - took down Killer with one Rengoku Onigiri in a 2v1. Passed out soon after but it's honestly no worse than Luffy nearly dying to a Hody bite.
- Zoro vs Fuji - held his own against an admiral for some time, neither party could go all out because of the civilians and the birdcage situation
- Zoro vs magistrate & others - defeated numerous samurai, destroyed a building, retrieved his swords and escaped the capital with just a seppuku knife
- Zoro vs Monet - if there was a rating of less than neg diff, that would be Zoro vs Monet lol
G
I don't think it's fair to scale Zoro purely off his current onscreen feats (most of which have been very impressive anyway). Oda has been very secretive about Zoro and his training and has yet to give Zoro a proper fight.
- Zoro vs Hyouzou - Zoro previously neg diffed Hody underwater and proceeded to neg diff Hyouzou, the strongest swordsman of FMI
- Zoro vs Pica - Once Zoro figured out how to stop Pica assimilating with the stone and escaping, he destroyed him. Was shown panting and sweating after ISDS but bear in mind he was thrown through the air and was suffering from wind pressure
- Zoro vs Kamazou - took down Killer with one Rengoku Onigiri in a 2v1. Passed out soon after but it's honestly no worse than Luffy nearly dying to a Hody bite.
- Zoro vs Fuji - held his own against an admiral for some time, neither party could go all out because of the civilians and the birdcage situation
- Zoro vs magistrate & others - defeated numerous samurai, destroyed a building, retrieved his swords and escaped the capital with just a seppuku knife
- Zoro vs Monet - if there was a rating of less than neg diff, that would be Zoro vs Monet lol
But that doesn’t mean that whatever Zoro achieves post-955, he couldn’t do before. Luffy was capable of G4 since before the timeskip ended, yet didn’t show it in Sabaody, FMI (despite the fact that a giant boat nearly killed everyone), PH (even though he nearly suffocated to death) or the colosseum in Dressrosa. Why? Because he simply didn’t want to. Same with Zoro, he’s clearly capable of much more than he’s shown, Oda is just secretive with powerups as he always is.
No, I'm saying that it's premature to say that Zoro was definitively < Luffy when they came out of the timeskip. It's unfair to judge Zoro's Sabaody power level given that, like pre-Doflamingo Luffy, he simply chose not to use his most powerful abilities. If Zoro showcases a feat that could only have been done with Enma, then fair enough, he could not have done that at Sabaody. If it's ambiguous, there's a chance that Sabaody Zoro was capable of that post-955 feat, just as Sabaody Luffy could already perform G4.
If anything, I'd say it's even more plausible given what we know:
If anything, I'd say it's even more plausible given what we know:
- characters grow stronger through repeatedly challenging stronger opponents
- Zoro has not had a properly challenging fight since the timeskip
- Zoro has to master a new sword and is going to upgrade it into a black blade
- Zoro is going to surpass Oden this arc
- Zoro is already capable of fighting admirals for a limited duration
Zoro has been holding back the entire post TS, like Luffy has been holding back until Dressrosa.
The only fight where Zoro would have needed to go all out was inconclusive, clash with Admiral.
Even if he went all out there he would have eventually lost so Oda kept his full power for Wano.
Just because he is getting used to Enma it doesnt mean he isnt capable of Asura and upgrades he may have received during TS training.
The only fight where Zoro would have needed to go all out was inconclusive, clash with Admiral.
Even if he went all out there he would have eventually lost so Oda kept his full power for Wano.
Just because he is getting used to Enma it doesnt mean he isnt capable of Asura and upgrades he may have received during TS training.
