General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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The Carrot argument is that it is her dream. The final purpose of the Kozuki/Minks, and a reason that she absolutely has to sail with them to Laugh Tale and be a Strawhat.
My take, it’s opening Wano’s borders. Kine’mon quite literally said to Kaido before he went up to the roof that he promised his lord that Dawn will come to Wano. The official translation changed that to “daybreak” for some reason, presumably to try and fit Kine’mon’s old fashioned way of speaking, but I’ve looked at the raws and the word he uses is the same as the one used for dawn by all the others- 夜明け
The only thing Kine’mon promised Oden is to open Wano in his stead, at the boiling. He didn‘t promise him to kill Kaido and Orochi, he (all the Scabbards) specifically promised him that he would open Wano’s borders, because, as Raizo said to Oden “your dream is our dream.”
Toki’s last words also talk about the Dawn, in more vague, poetic language, but it still heavily implies it’s the return of the Kozuki and the Red Scabbards and the opening of the borders, as Oden’s all important wish.
And the last we heard of it was a few chapters ago, with Yamato, who has read Oden’s journal, saying that Momo will do it as well. Again, pointing to it just being opening the borders. Opening the borders is something Oden insisted the Kozuki had to do.
There’s also the various symbolic arguments- Wano is the OP land of the rising sun, Japan. The rising sun being the dawn. The fight is happening at night, so I’m almost 99% sure that Kaido will be defeated literally at dawn. Dawn itself is symbolic of a beginning- the end of Wano marks Luffy’s becoming a Great Pirate, and the beginning of the final stage of One Piece.
The other argument is that there are two separate dawns, the one here on Wano and then another one later in the series, which i find to be complteley illogical and ignoring every development we’ve had on the subject since Wano began.
He went to WCI because he was the only one capable of controlling Pekoms.
Pedro wanted it because Luffy still has to get to Laugh Tale, even after the Dawn is achieved. Like I’ve been saying all along- the Dawn is not the end. It is the beginning of the end. The sign that the Kozuki and the Mink have been waiting for all this time to reopen the borders.
That’s why the Kozuki and the Minks will have had a Road Poneglyph in the first place. To help Luffy, when he finally arrived, on his path. They are meant to help Luffy on his way to Laugh Tale, and the sign they have been waiting for that he has came is the dawn, the opening of the borders after centuries. Luffy still has to go to Laugh Tale after that.
Uh, yeah, because Kine’mon knows what he‘s talking about. Why would I not take Kine’mon‘s take on it? Kine’mon is the one who finally explained to us for certain what it actually is, because he’s the one who has been our insight into the Wano plot for the longest. You guys are literally ignoring that Kine’mon told us what the dawn is just because it doesn’t fit your theory, and are coming up with nonsense like “ah, there’s actually two dawns. Kine’mon’s not talking about our one.”
And then you call me “disingenuous“ lol.
Because Roger and Oden were awesome? It’s not because of the dawn, I don’t see why kid Pedro would know all about it while Carrot, who is older, doesn‘t. Either Carrot is a moron who doesn’t know something commonplace that literal children do or it‘s something that Pedro only learned later. Like, when Neko returned from Wano and told him that it was Oden’s dream to achieve it.
Very simple.
Centuries ago, the Kozuki’s and their friends the Minks retreated from the world, closing their borders and hiding in their elephant, waiting for the day the Dawn will arise and they can rejoin the world. This will be the sign that the one they are waiting for has come. The Kozuki’s make the Poneglyphs, in particular four important ones that guide the way to Laugh Tale, which they give to allies of Joy Boy- Minks, Fishmen, one other (Giants?). Their purpose is to send Joy Boy on his way to Laugh Tale, where he will discover what he needs to change the world.
Over the centuries, they forgot this purpose.
Then arises Roger and Oden. Despite not being the ones who will change the world, they do end up getting to Laugh Tale years earlier than Luffy and discover what is meant to happen in the future.
Oden thus returns from Laugh Tale to Wano. He tells his retainers that they will need to open the country in twenty years to bring about the dawn. Among these retainers are Kine’mon- who then tells Kaido that they will do this- Inu, and Neko. He also writes in his logbook that this is to happen.
Disaster strikes! Oden is murdered! But before he’s murdered, he once again tells his samurai to open the borders, and saves them. Inu and Neko manage to escape, but distraught, argue with each other, and refuse to talk to each other anymore.
Enter Pedro. As a child, adored Roger and wanted to travel with him and Oden. He learns from Inu or Neko that that their purpose is not over- hence the first thing we see Neko saying being that he is awaiting the Dawn. They believe that Oden’s other retainers will return in the future, that the Kozuki and the Minks have been waiting for centuries to open the borders of Wano and herald in the dawn, as they need to be ready to help Joy Boy 2.0 when he has returned .
Since Pedro couldn‘t help Roger, he decides to help his yet to arrive successor. He can’t bring about the dawn himself. He knows he isn‘t strong enough to defeat Kaido, and that the world is still waiting for the Red Scabbards to do that- hence his words at their crucifixion. So in order to help Joy Boy he does the one thing he can do- look for Road Poneglyphs- in the hope that when he finally arrives, Pedro has at least made his path easier.
Meanwhile, Yamato discovers Oden’s journal. She reads it, discovers his life, his wish for the Dawn and that his son, Momo, should have brought it about. Since he’s presumably dead, she decides she’ll have to take up Oden’s dream, and becomes Oden to open the borders and let in the Dawn. She also meets Ace, and realises that his little brother and Roger share some great similarities- enough for her to realise he is the one Oden was waiting for. Hence the tears at Luffy’s same words as Roger.
Enter present day. Scabbards have finally returned, eager to fulfil their lords dream and bring about the dawn. They do not know exactly why Oden and Toki made them wait twenty years to do it. They and Pedro realise the one they are waiting for is Luffy.
Is this supposed to be some sort of great smoking gun of an argument?
What I’m saying:
-Dawn is end of Wano. Sign of centuries of isolation over. The saviour hath cometh.
Yeah, the Kozuki and the Minks are still going to be involved EoS. That goes without saying. That’s what I’m saying the entire purpose of the dawn is- for them to be ready for the final war and all the chaos that will come from Luffy getting to Laugh Tale.
Lol, the passive aggressive approach is heavily embarrassing.
Yes, and Kine’mon then openly told us that the Dawn was opening Wano’s borders and achieving Oden’s dream.
You can argue that Momo will be really important EoS all you want, it doesn‘t really change anything.
Just reinforces that Carrot is vastly less important than him in this entire plotline and isn‘t going to be a Strawhat.
Yes, but that isn‘t actually a real thing. The Land of the Rising Sun is. One is something that has real value, the other is something you’ve made up entirely.
Wrong
You’ve got me all wrong.
I said the best that Oda could do is make her hunt Poneglyphs. It is just as likely that Carrot just fucks off entirely after Wano, her purpose fulfilled.
Already answered all this.
And no, the Dawn is important. This is the most important thing that has happened in One Piece since Marineford.
It’s just not as quite as important as you want it to be.
When i used my common sense to say that given that there’s more than half of the Poneglyphs to discover, and that One Piece is hitting its finale after this arc, they are extremely unlikley to somehow come across 10+ poneglyphs.
Did I say it would? I said Oda brought it back up to remind us it’s about to be resolved, not that fighting Perospero would resolve it.
I’d say that Oden’s journal would be the thing to do that, since it’s told Yamato what the Dawn is.
There’s fuck all to underestimate, Carrot just isn‘t very important. She’s a subplot in the Zou/WCI/Wano story, not the main event. Even her role in the dawn plotline has been lessened by Yamato.
I treat Carrot and the Minks as minor support because that’s how they are treated in the series.
My take, it’s opening Wano’s borders. Kine’mon quite literally said to Kaido before he went up to the roof that he promised his lord that Dawn will come to Wano. The official translation changed that to “daybreak” for some reason, presumably to try and fit Kine’mon’s old fashioned way of speaking, but I’ve looked at the raws and the word he uses is the same as the one used for dawn by all the others- 夜明け
The only thing Kine’mon promised Oden is to open Wano in his stead, at the boiling. He didn‘t promise him to kill Kaido and Orochi, he (all the Scabbards) specifically promised him that he would open Wano’s borders, because, as Raizo said to Oden “your dream is our dream.”
Toki’s last words also talk about the Dawn, in more vague, poetic language, but it still heavily implies it’s the return of the Kozuki and the Red Scabbards and the opening of the borders, as Oden’s all important wish.
And the last we heard of it was a few chapters ago, with Yamato, who has read Oden’s journal, saying that Momo will do it as well. Again, pointing to it just being opening the borders. Opening the borders is something Oden insisted the Kozuki had to do.
There’s also the various symbolic arguments- Wano is the OP land of the rising sun, Japan. The rising sun being the dawn. The fight is happening at night, so I’m almost 99% sure that Kaido will be defeated literally at dawn. Dawn itself is symbolic of a beginning- the end of Wano marks Luffy’s becoming a Great Pirate, and the beginning of the final stage of One Piece.
The other argument is that there are two separate dawns, the one here on Wano and then another one later in the series, which i find to be complteley illogical and ignoring every development we’ve had on the subject since Wano began.
He went to WCI because he was the only one capable of controlling Pekoms.
Pedro wanted it because Luffy still has to get to Laugh Tale, even after the Dawn is achieved. Like I’ve been saying all along- the Dawn is not the end. It is the beginning of the end. The sign that the Kozuki and the Mink have been waiting for all this time to reopen the borders.
That’s why the Kozuki and the Minks will have had a Road Poneglyph in the first place. To help Luffy, when he finally arrived, on his path. They are meant to help Luffy on his way to Laugh Tale, and the sign they have been waiting for that he has came is the dawn, the opening of the borders after centuries. Luffy still has to go to Laugh Tale after that.
Uh, yeah, because Kine’mon knows what he‘s talking about. Why would I not take Kine’mon‘s take on it? Kine’mon is the one who finally explained to us for certain what it actually is, because he’s the one who has been our insight into the Wano plot for the longest. You guys are literally ignoring that Kine’mon told us what the dawn is just because it doesn’t fit your theory, and are coming up with nonsense like “ah, there’s actually two dawns. Kine’mon’s not talking about our one.”
And then you call me “disingenuous“ lol.
Because Roger and Oden were awesome? It’s not because of the dawn, I don’t see why kid Pedro would know all about it while Carrot, who is older, doesn‘t. Either Carrot is a moron who doesn’t know something commonplace that literal children do or it‘s something that Pedro only learned later. Like, when Neko returned from Wano and told him that it was Oden’s dream to achieve it.
Very simple.
Centuries ago, the Kozuki’s and their friends the Minks retreated from the world, closing their borders and hiding in their elephant, waiting for the day the Dawn will arise and they can rejoin the world. This will be the sign that the one they are waiting for has come. The Kozuki’s make the Poneglyphs, in particular four important ones that guide the way to Laugh Tale, which they give to allies of Joy Boy- Minks, Fishmen, one other (Giants?). Their purpose is to send Joy Boy on his way to Laugh Tale, where he will discover what he needs to change the world.
Over the centuries, they forgot this purpose.
Then arises Roger and Oden. Despite not being the ones who will change the world, they do end up getting to Laugh Tale years earlier than Luffy and discover what is meant to happen in the future.
Oden thus returns from Laugh Tale to Wano. He tells his retainers that they will need to open the country in twenty years to bring about the dawn. Among these retainers are Kine’mon- who then tells Kaido that they will do this- Inu, and Neko. He also writes in his logbook that this is to happen.
Disaster strikes! Oden is murdered! But before he’s murdered, he once again tells his samurai to open the borders, and saves them. Inu and Neko manage to escape, but distraught, argue with each other, and refuse to talk to each other anymore.
Enter Pedro. As a child, adored Roger and wanted to travel with him and Oden. He learns from Inu or Neko that that their purpose is not over- hence the first thing we see Neko saying being that he is awaiting the Dawn. They believe that Oden’s other retainers will return in the future, that the Kozuki and the Minks have been waiting for centuries to open the borders of Wano and herald in the dawn, as they need to be ready to help Joy Boy 2.0 when he has returned .
Since Pedro couldn‘t help Roger, he decides to help his yet to arrive successor. He can’t bring about the dawn himself. He knows he isn‘t strong enough to defeat Kaido, and that the world is still waiting for the Red Scabbards to do that- hence his words at their crucifixion. So in order to help Joy Boy he does the one thing he can do- look for Road Poneglyphs- in the hope that when he finally arrives, Pedro has at least made his path easier.
Meanwhile, Yamato discovers Oden’s journal. She reads it, discovers his life, his wish for the Dawn and that his son, Momo, should have brought it about. Since he’s presumably dead, she decides she’ll have to take up Oden’s dream, and becomes Oden to open the borders and let in the Dawn. She also meets Ace, and realises that his little brother and Roger share some great similarities- enough for her to realise he is the one Oden was waiting for. Hence the tears at Luffy’s same words as Roger.
Enter present day. Scabbards have finally returned, eager to fulfil their lords dream and bring about the dawn. They do not know exactly why Oden and Toki made them wait twenty years to do it. They and Pedro realise the one they are waiting for is Luffy.
Is this supposed to be some sort of great smoking gun of an argument?
What I’m saying:
-Dawn is end of Wano. Sign of centuries of isolation over. The saviour hath cometh.
Yeah, the Kozuki and the Minks are still going to be involved EoS. That goes without saying. That’s what I’m saying the entire purpose of the dawn is- for them to be ready for the final war and all the chaos that will come from Luffy getting to Laugh Tale.
Lol, the passive aggressive approach is heavily embarrassing.
Yes, and Kine’mon then openly told us that the Dawn was opening Wano’s borders and achieving Oden’s dream.
You can argue that Momo will be really important EoS all you want, it doesn‘t really change anything.
Just reinforces that Carrot is vastly less important than him in this entire plotline and isn‘t going to be a Strawhat.
Yes, but that isn‘t actually a real thing. The Land of the Rising Sun is. One is something that has real value, the other is something you’ve made up entirely.
Wrong
You’ve got me all wrong.
I said the best that Oda could do is make her hunt Poneglyphs. It is just as likely that Carrot just fucks off entirely after Wano, her purpose fulfilled.
Already answered all this.
And no, the Dawn is important. This is the most important thing that has happened in One Piece since Marineford.
It’s just not as quite as important as you want it to be.
When i used my common sense to say that given that there’s more than half of the Poneglyphs to discover, and that One Piece is hitting its finale after this arc, they are extremely unlikley to somehow come across 10+ poneglyphs.
Did I say it would? I said Oda brought it back up to remind us it’s about to be resolved, not that fighting Perospero would resolve it.
I’d say that Oden’s journal would be the thing to do that, since it’s told Yamato what the Dawn is.
There’s fuck all to underestimate, Carrot just isn‘t very important. She’s a subplot in the Zou/WCI/Wano story, not the main event. Even her role in the dawn plotline has been lessened by Yamato.
I treat Carrot and the Minks as minor support because that’s how they are treated in the series.
I thought of that, especially since we had one such character in the special episode with Lily Enstomach.
But right now the young ones are in Hajruddins' crew and he seems to be the ony prominent one who will be relevant with SHs. Any other young ones will probably follow him rather than luffy.
And we can't have anyone of same age as Sabo since there lifespan is different
.
But right now the young ones are in Hajruddins' crew and he seems to be the ony prominent one who will be relevant with SHs. Any other young ones will probably follow him rather than luffy.
And we can't have anyone of same age as Sabo since there lifespan is different
.
No, it's why Nekomamushi gave him permission above the other Minks volunteering.
Laugh Tale was never uttered or brought up by Pedro. Hunting down Road Poneglyphs was something he had stated himself to facilitate the coming of the Dawn of the World, not what happened afterwards. You're the only one saying that. He started the expedition, as explained in SBS Volume 86, around 15 years ago and had been sailing gathering Pongelyphs with their Expedition team, only cut short from morale deterring, abandonment, and loss 3 years ago in the story.
Kinemon only knows of whatever Toki mentioned and the last words Oden said. The entire time Oden had been in Wano, he never told any of the retainers of the things he discovered on Raftel, only that their time was early and that another figure will show in that time frame. If the Dawn was literally all about opening the borders, it wouldn't be something Oden had been so proactive to doing when he got back since it was all he had to do.
Oden's words were to help this man when the day comes since that should be the moment he will arrive and Wano's borders should be opened by then. The Dawn is not the 20 year prophecy, its an over 800 year one and it involves both the Kozuki Clan and the Mink Tribe. That's already been expressed, stated, and told literally on panel.
You're seriously ignoring that.
His ending panels in Chaptter 878 of the flashback foretold otherwise that it was his intention for traveling them with the Dawn.
Garp, this is the most impressive hot take you've made so far.
Need I remind you that back on Oro Jackson, you said that by Wano we'll get a title card for Zoro's true name because his introduction in Chapter 3 didn't have one? I don't fault you for thinking this is just a streamlined list of coincidences, but thinking that this is all going to be resolved by the end of the arc because of a machination you're creating now doesn't even make it the objective truth.
What I'm saying is that what your subjective take on a "real" EoS plotline and acting like the Kozuki and Minks don't have that set up is proven bias on your end since Oda has already established these plotlines ahead of time, also hundreds of chapters in advance now officially.
The fact you decided to ignore it is more embarrassing in of itself when you said the aforementioned.
Opening Wano's borders means they are exposing themselves to the rest of the world after 800 years of isolation and that Momonosuke, leading the Kozuki Clan, is heralding towards whatever becomes of it. Opening their borders doesn't explain why the Minks are also going to be involved, their relation, and the purpose of Zuneisha's millennium long punishment walking the land and where his true purpose is. That's everything that's set up toward EoS, like Shirahoshi and the promise made by Joy Boy also more than 600 years ago, the eventual destruction of Fishman Island, and eventually having to go towards the surface. Noah being safe guarded by Sea Kings till that day comes, which is soon. They themselves speak of it in the flashback on Fishman Island, in Oden's, and present time when they secured it before Luffy completely destroyed it.
Kin'emon is only going off what he knows of Toki's last words and what Oden might have said.
Because you say so?
Jinbe is also acting as proxy for the Fishmen people for their dream that will no doubt involve FI destruction and Noah and his dream entirely falls on his voyage with Luffy, so I fail to see that. His stance on the matter, his presence, and his history have always revolved around the theme of the betterment of the Fishman people, but it seems more likely than not Shirahoshi, through prophecy, will be more important in doing so. Jinbe believes Luffy is the guy who will achieve that, which is why he's following him so fervently, along with his respect for Luffy and relationship.
And the full meaning of the "Dawn" is the "Dawn of the World." Not "Dawn of a Single Nation."
It is, there's no reason for any character to get Poneglyphs for Robin that aren't the Road Poneglyphs right now.
You just proved that was wrong yourself. There's no reason for her to do that. You just think that's all she will do because that's what you believe the Nox Pirates did. Just go Poneglyph hunting, without acknowledging that they went hunting for Road Poneglyphs to bring in time for the second coming of Joy Boy. Something Pedro says is that they are changing the world, which was why he made his was insistent on coming to Whole Cake Island, so the statement you made above is doubly incorrect.
I and others have pointed out that the Dawn is a prophecy far exceeding simply opening Wano's borders considering the first thing Oden wanted to do returning from his voyage with Roger was to do that. Instead he died, leaving it up for his retainers to act on his behalf. What he wanted his retainers to do was prepare and help him for when he arrives and when that happens help him, because as we've seen mentioned by Pedro, Luffy will be the one to help both factions facilitate the Dawn of the World.
Opening the borders was just a way for them to welcome him. Toki's prophecy was basically telling everyone to wait for 20 years in the future for him to come so that the Dawn of the World may come.
Dude, your "common sense" has proven wrong in the past. I don't really have much to believe that Robin will uncover all the Poneglyphs within the timeframe we have now when the Road Poneglyphs have become a priority for her to uncover something the World Government had been trying to hide from the world for centuries. The main reason Ohara was wiped off the map. Robin is a historian and an archaeologist, always uncovering artifcacts of the past, but she does so on her adventures with the crew, just like Nami drawing/collecting her maps. The Void Century info is on Laugh Tale, Roger, Rayleigh, and Oden have confirmed this.
He only showed that the match with Perospero, as predicted yet denied in this thread, was inevitable and that now its happened. Resolution is something that will be needed to actually address why Carrot was made aware of this, not just avenging her dead mentor.
Probably the only thing I've agreed so far, but more or less Momonosuke's role in it.
She was also not supposed to be present in any of the events she was in that could have been handled by the supporting cast that justifiably went with the Sanji Retrieval Team, but Oda included her on purpose. He brings up a last minute mmonologue through Pedro for Carrot's sole attention and he has yet to make that sync with her, so if you want to ignore the story laid out for you, go ahead. You've done that already.
They are also in a sworn pact of brotherhood with a very prominent facet of the story never explained. Oden when he traveled to Zou even said he was surprised, meaning yes, there's more to it. Ignoring it doesn't make it minor.
Laugh Tale was never uttered or brought up by Pedro. Hunting down Road Poneglyphs was something he had stated himself to facilitate the coming of the Dawn of the World, not what happened afterwards. You're the only one saying that. He started the expedition, as explained in SBS Volume 86, around 15 years ago and had been sailing gathering Pongelyphs with their Expedition team, only cut short from morale deterring, abandonment, and loss 3 years ago in the story.
Kinemon only knows of whatever Toki mentioned and the last words Oden said. The entire time Oden had been in Wano, he never told any of the retainers of the things he discovered on Raftel, only that their time was early and that another figure will show in that time frame. If the Dawn was literally all about opening the borders, it wouldn't be something Oden had been so proactive to doing when he got back since it was all he had to do.
Oden's words were to help this man when the day comes since that should be the moment he will arrive and Wano's borders should be opened by then. The Dawn is not the 20 year prophecy, its an over 800 year one and it involves both the Kozuki Clan and the Mink Tribe. That's already been expressed, stated, and told literally on panel.
You're seriously ignoring that.
His ending panels in Chaptter 878 of the flashback foretold otherwise that it was his intention for traveling them with the Dawn.
Garp, this is the most impressive hot take you've made so far.
Need I remind you that back on Oro Jackson, you said that by Wano we'll get a title card for Zoro's true name because his introduction in Chapter 3 didn't have one? I don't fault you for thinking this is just a streamlined list of coincidences, but thinking that this is all going to be resolved by the end of the arc because of a machination you're creating now doesn't even make it the objective truth.
What I'm saying is that what your subjective take on a "real" EoS plotline and acting like the Kozuki and Minks don't have that set up is proven bias on your end since Oda has already established these plotlines ahead of time, also hundreds of chapters in advance now officially.
The fact you decided to ignore it is more embarrassing in of itself when you said the aforementioned.
Opening Wano's borders means they are exposing themselves to the rest of the world after 800 years of isolation and that Momonosuke, leading the Kozuki Clan, is heralding towards whatever becomes of it. Opening their borders doesn't explain why the Minks are also going to be involved, their relation, and the purpose of Zuneisha's millennium long punishment walking the land and where his true purpose is. That's everything that's set up toward EoS, like Shirahoshi and the promise made by Joy Boy also more than 600 years ago, the eventual destruction of Fishman Island, and eventually having to go towards the surface. Noah being safe guarded by Sea Kings till that day comes, which is soon. They themselves speak of it in the flashback on Fishman Island, in Oden's, and present time when they secured it before Luffy completely destroyed it.
Kin'emon is only going off what he knows of Toki's last words and what Oden might have said.
Because you say so?
Jinbe is also acting as proxy for the Fishmen people for their dream that will no doubt involve FI destruction and Noah and his dream entirely falls on his voyage with Luffy, so I fail to see that. His stance on the matter, his presence, and his history have always revolved around the theme of the betterment of the Fishman people, but it seems more likely than not Shirahoshi, through prophecy, will be more important in doing so. Jinbe believes Luffy is the guy who will achieve that, which is why he's following him so fervently, along with his respect for Luffy and relationship.
And the full meaning of the "Dawn" is the "Dawn of the World." Not "Dawn of a Single Nation."
It is, there's no reason for any character to get Poneglyphs for Robin that aren't the Road Poneglyphs right now.
You just proved that was wrong yourself. There's no reason for her to do that. You just think that's all she will do because that's what you believe the Nox Pirates did. Just go Poneglyph hunting, without acknowledging that they went hunting for Road Poneglyphs to bring in time for the second coming of Joy Boy. Something Pedro says is that they are changing the world, which was why he made his was insistent on coming to Whole Cake Island, so the statement you made above is doubly incorrect.
I and others have pointed out that the Dawn is a prophecy far exceeding simply opening Wano's borders considering the first thing Oden wanted to do returning from his voyage with Roger was to do that. Instead he died, leaving it up for his retainers to act on his behalf. What he wanted his retainers to do was prepare and help him for when he arrives and when that happens help him, because as we've seen mentioned by Pedro, Luffy will be the one to help both factions facilitate the Dawn of the World.
Opening the borders was just a way for them to welcome him. Toki's prophecy was basically telling everyone to wait for 20 years in the future for him to come so that the Dawn of the World may come.
Dude, your "common sense" has proven wrong in the past. I don't really have much to believe that Robin will uncover all the Poneglyphs within the timeframe we have now when the Road Poneglyphs have become a priority for her to uncover something the World Government had been trying to hide from the world for centuries. The main reason Ohara was wiped off the map. Robin is a historian and an archaeologist, always uncovering artifcacts of the past, but she does so on her adventures with the crew, just like Nami drawing/collecting her maps. The Void Century info is on Laugh Tale, Roger, Rayleigh, and Oden have confirmed this.
He only showed that the match with Perospero, as predicted yet denied in this thread, was inevitable and that now its happened. Resolution is something that will be needed to actually address why Carrot was made aware of this, not just avenging her dead mentor.
Probably the only thing I've agreed so far, but more or less Momonosuke's role in it.
She was also not supposed to be present in any of the events she was in that could have been handled by the supporting cast that justifiably went with the Sanji Retrieval Team, but Oda included her on purpose. He brings up a last minute mmonologue through Pedro for Carrot's sole attention and he has yet to make that sync with her, so if you want to ignore the story laid out for you, go ahead. You've done that already.
They are also in a sworn pact of brotherhood with a very prominent facet of the story never explained. Oden when he traveled to Zou even said he was surprised, meaning yes, there's more to it. Ignoring it doesn't make it minor.
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That is what i said, yes.
Are you trying to argue that Pedro was hunting down something that’s sole purpose is getting to Laugh Tale, for reasons that have nothing to do with getting to Laugh Tale?
And at no point does Pedro say “i am hunting Poneglyphs as they will bring about the Dawn.” He says he’s doing it to help Neko. Because Neko will bring in the Dawn. That’s the first thing we see Neko say, and why Pedro begs the Strawhats to save Inu and Neko. Because they are Oden’s retainer, who are bringing about the Dawn, the opening of Wano’s borders.
Also that SBS says that Pedro was hunting just any poneglyph, not specifically Road ones, so... back to that being something Carrot could do to stay slightly relevant.
There is no reason to think that Kine’mon knows any less than Pedro, Inu, Neko or any other modern day character that has mentioned the Dawn. As leader of the Red Scabbards and the main figure in the Wano plotline, he’s the most authoritative voice we have bar whatever was said in Oden’s journal. The man literally sat down and said the dawn is opening Wano’s borders and you’re just pretending it never happened.
He told them that they would need to open the borders for a certain time, and then at his death further explained it was the Kozuki who closed them first, and they had to be the ones to then open them to prepare to work with the one who would come.
And it’s only after that that Kine’mon, Neko, Inu, Pedro and Yamato start talking about the Dawn. There is no mention of it beforehand. It’s not some long-lasting Mink prophecy, it’s Oden’s wish given a poetic name.
Crap translation
He’s just reaffirming that it will be twenty years until he can open the borders
No, i actually understand it. The Kozuki and the Minks, and the world, have been waiting centuries for Wano to open their borders and work with the figure who will come. That is the dawn. It’s all laid out in Oden’s last words, including Kine’mon noting that Oden had talked to the Scabbards about opening the borders more than was shown on panel.
That’s adult Pedro’s intentions. You said kid Pedro knew about the Dawn. Where’s the proof of that?
And what has that got to do with anything?
It is still weird that Zoro never received an introduction box when 99% of the characters in the series have one. And we’re now on the verge of discovering that Zoro does have a past related to Wano that we didn’t know about. As far as things I’ve been wring about in the past go, this ain’t a great example of one.
Kine’mon saying to Kaido that the borders of Wano will be opened, that this is Oden’s wish, and that this is the dawn, makes it the objective truth.
The Dawn is not meant to answer all these questions. That is not it’s purpose. It is simply the end of the isolation period. That is why the characters who have been said to bring about the Dawn are
-Neko, according to himself
-Neko and Inu, according to Pedro
-the Strawhats, according to Pedro
-the Red Scabbards once they return, according to Toki
-Kine’mon, according to himself
-Momo, according to Yamato
The shared purpose of all these characters is overthrowing Kaido and opening the borders. That’s the Dawn, and nothing else.
That’s why Pedro begged for the Strawhats to save Inu and Neko, as “they couldn‘t be allowed to die because the world is waiting for them.” This coming after Neko introduced himself to Jack as the one “waiting the dawn of the world.” Because that’s the purpose of Oden’s retainers, to finish Oden’s dream and open the borders. There is absolutely nothing else that has ever been suggested as being something that Inu and Neko are waiting for. There is no deeper reason they could not be allowed to die. Their plot relevance is simply that they were Oden’s retainers.
In other words, Kine’mon knows what he’s talking about.
Jinbei and the Fishmen have always been vastly more important to the plot than Carrot and the Minks. The Fishmen are their own separate story going on since East Blue. The Minks are a Kozuki sub-plot.
The Dawn of a nation closed off from the world opening itself to the rest of mankind.
Glad you brought that up, i took you’re word for it before, but having looked at the chapters Pedro doesn‘t say shit about hunting Road Poneglyphs specifically.
It isn’t though, that’s just an invention to try and justify Carrot being a Strawhat.
It’s also been right
Robin only needs to find 13 of the 30 Poneglyphs (9 Real, 4 Road) to get to Laugh Tale and discover the truth. Carrot can go find the ones that aren’t necessary for that.
I’m ignoring nothing, i can just tell that given the lack of attention that Oda has given Carrot’s plotline it’s not very important. It’s like Kanjuro being a traitor, it’s something Oda set up, didn’t really touch on, dealt with quickly when the time was necessary and then moved on without ever dwelling on it.
Same as above. Yes, Oda will tell us why the Minks and the Kozuki are related. No, that doesn’t make the Minks overly important. Oda literally off-screened the Minks long awaited moment of vengeance against Jack, they’re a side-show.
Are you trying to argue that Pedro was hunting down something that’s sole purpose is getting to Laugh Tale, for reasons that have nothing to do with getting to Laugh Tale?
And at no point does Pedro say “i am hunting Poneglyphs as they will bring about the Dawn.” He says he’s doing it to help Neko. Because Neko will bring in the Dawn. That’s the first thing we see Neko say, and why Pedro begs the Strawhats to save Inu and Neko. Because they are Oden’s retainer, who are bringing about the Dawn, the opening of Wano’s borders.
Also that SBS says that Pedro was hunting just any poneglyph, not specifically Road ones, so... back to that being something Carrot could do to stay slightly relevant.
There is no reason to think that Kine’mon knows any less than Pedro, Inu, Neko or any other modern day character that has mentioned the Dawn. As leader of the Red Scabbards and the main figure in the Wano plotline, he’s the most authoritative voice we have bar whatever was said in Oden’s journal. The man literally sat down and said the dawn is opening Wano’s borders and you’re just pretending it never happened.
He told them that they would need to open the borders for a certain time, and then at his death further explained it was the Kozuki who closed them first, and they had to be the ones to then open them to prepare to work with the one who would come.
And it’s only after that that Kine’mon, Neko, Inu, Pedro and Yamato start talking about the Dawn. There is no mention of it beforehand. It’s not some long-lasting Mink prophecy, it’s Oden’s wish given a poetic name.
Crap translation
He’s just reaffirming that it will be twenty years until he can open the borders
No, i actually understand it. The Kozuki and the Minks, and the world, have been waiting centuries for Wano to open their borders and work with the figure who will come. That is the dawn. It’s all laid out in Oden’s last words, including Kine’mon noting that Oden had talked to the Scabbards about opening the borders more than was shown on panel.
And what has that got to do with anything?
It is still weird that Zoro never received an introduction box when 99% of the characters in the series have one. And we’re now on the verge of discovering that Zoro does have a past related to Wano that we didn’t know about. As far as things I’ve been wring about in the past go, this ain’t a great example of one.
Kine’mon saying to Kaido that the borders of Wano will be opened, that this is Oden’s wish, and that this is the dawn, makes it the objective truth.
The Dawn is not meant to answer all these questions. That is not it’s purpose. It is simply the end of the isolation period. That is why the characters who have been said to bring about the Dawn are
-Neko, according to himself
-Neko and Inu, according to Pedro
-the Strawhats, according to Pedro
-the Red Scabbards once they return, according to Toki
-Kine’mon, according to himself
-Momo, according to Yamato
The shared purpose of all these characters is overthrowing Kaido and opening the borders. That’s the Dawn, and nothing else.
That’s why Pedro begged for the Strawhats to save Inu and Neko, as “they couldn‘t be allowed to die because the world is waiting for them.” This coming after Neko introduced himself to Jack as the one “waiting the dawn of the world.” Because that’s the purpose of Oden’s retainers, to finish Oden’s dream and open the borders. There is absolutely nothing else that has ever been suggested as being something that Inu and Neko are waiting for. There is no deeper reason they could not be allowed to die. Their plot relevance is simply that they were Oden’s retainers.
In other words, Kine’mon knows what he’s talking about.
Jinbei and the Fishmen have always been vastly more important to the plot than Carrot and the Minks. The Fishmen are their own separate story going on since East Blue. The Minks are a Kozuki sub-plot.
The Dawn of a nation closed off from the world opening itself to the rest of mankind.
Glad you brought that up, i took you’re word for it before, but having looked at the chapters Pedro doesn‘t say shit about hunting Road Poneglyphs specifically.
It isn’t though, that’s just an invention to try and justify Carrot being a Strawhat.
It’s also been right
Robin only needs to find 13 of the 30 Poneglyphs (9 Real, 4 Road) to get to Laugh Tale and discover the truth. Carrot can go find the ones that aren’t necessary for that.
I’m ignoring nothing, i can just tell that given the lack of attention that Oda has given Carrot’s plotline it’s not very important. It’s like Kanjuro being a traitor, it’s something Oda set up, didn’t really touch on, dealt with quickly when the time was necessary and then moved on without ever dwelling on it.
Same as above. Yes, Oda will tell us why the Minks and the Kozuki are related. No, that doesn’t make the Minks overly important. Oda literally off-screened the Minks long awaited moment of vengeance against Jack, they’re a side-show.
You said that was the reason he went. It wasn't. He went representing the Minks and later explained his other motives later in Whole Cake Island when we understood more about his past.
I'm arguing that because that's what he said. Most of what you're posting is things I've mentioned already, but its not that the Dukes are the ones bringing the Dawn. He specifically mentions the Luffy and the crew will do so, Momo's involvement is now brought up recently. It is specifically shown later in Pedro's confrontation with Baron Tamago that his intention to coming to Whole Cake Island in the past was to get the Road Poneglyph from Big Mom, he was being vague about the details because he didn't want to disclose what happened. Me posting the SBS was just to elaborate the history of the Nox Expedition Group.
We still don't know the full extent of what Pedro knows or what he meant, but what we are made aware is that the journey to Laugh Tale is necessary for it, which is why he was going on expeditions for Road Poneglyphs. Kin'emon only knows that Oden wanted him to open Wano's borders and that after 800 years of isolation an important figure will come. It was imperative for them to work with him when that time eventually came. He then tells his retainers to open the borders in his place since he told them that he was going to die there.
Kin'emon, Kanjuro, and Raizo rush to the palace to retrieve Toki, only for her to transport those 3 and Momonosuke in the future 20 years ahead so that they can rapidly find the awaited figure. Her final words are basically not give up hope since the day will come for what the 800 year prophecy awaits. Toki had faith that the retainers, though separated, would pull through.
He told them they would need to be opened by the time of his execution and prior to his demise. He would have done it sooner as was his intentions, but the immediate state of Wano, the incident with Toki, and Orochi's deceitful ploy and proposal delayed those plans. Oden only meant to act as a fool for 5 years, but then Orochi reveals he pulled his promise and lied, so Oden took action.
That actually reaffirms my point more than anything. Oden, with the help of his retainers, was going to open the borders of Wano himself and then wait 20 years from now the return of Joy Boy and the Dawn to come.
That was never stated by Oden to be the Dawn, just that in 20 years time, someone was coming that they needed to help and asked them to the open the borders in his stead since he wasn't able to do it during the years he returned from his voyage.
Adult Pedro had also narratively focused in on Luffy after knowing his relative significance from Neko and Inu bringing him to the Whale Tree. Seeing it to come to Whole Cake Island to assist in something he was completely aware of and attempted in the past knowing it would prove fruitful to the Dawn of the World. That line of reasoning was explained by Pedro to Baron Tamago why he bothered coming back. If opening the borders was all there was to it, that would have been stated. Along with the knowledge that after Oden and Roger left Zou, they had the 4 Road Poneglyphs they needed, plotted to Laugh Tale, and headed there.
Its based on hypotheticals you created on flawed logic, which you are doing now. Considering you also exempt things from reasoning, its not a great thing to write home about.
That's why I called it a prelude, its not the end result. Opening the borders of Wano was something Oden was going to do on his return and wait for the time Joy Boy came. Its only through carrying that out that it will eventually come to pass.
The Dawn of the World is changing the entire scope of the land of One Piece that has been foreshadowed through Pedro's words, not just Wano. The isolation period was just something the Kozuki Clan did to protect themselves from the World Government. Oden was going to do it returning back home, but the issues he was presented with in Wano is what caused him to shift his focus. The plot points that have arisen in Zou alone regarding the situation of the Minks homeland and eventual evacuation as well as the context behind Zuneisha's punshment considering it seems like the Kozukis can listen and apparently order him propel this narrative further. Oden upon arriving on Zou was surprised what Inu and Neko said was true in regards to their clans' relationship and he never conversed with Zuneisha, meaning yes, there's more to come that tie these 2 factions together.
The Dawn of the World predates the threat of Kaido. If anything, Kaido is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, considering it was foretold Luffy was eventually going to arrive. That never changed, only in their ability of awaiting his arrival to do so.
I know for a fact I was the one who had addressed this in a post. It shows that the Minks are very much aware of the Dawn of the World and that they do know more than we are aware. Considering outside the Dukes, Pedro is the only one among the Minks aware of this. Carrot didn't. The dream never was about opening their borders, it was about awaiting for Luffy's arrival and that they are part of the retainers Oden had entrusted and Toki believed would help facilitate in helping him.
In other words, Kin'emon has limited knowledge. Just like us.
Only because you say so. Zuneisha's entire existence is proof that what I bolded is not correct.
The Dawn was never mentioned to be the end result of opening Wano's borders, just that doing so will ensure it. That was Oden's original intent.
Refer to above.
It is, I've already shown so.
Kind of. Though saying things like the plot lines I referred to above will be resolved by this arc's conclusion is something I'll look forward to.
The Road Poneglyphs are the only ones you need to locate Laugh Tale, which is where the hidden truth of the world Robin has sought out all her life lies. The rest is of personal interest, which means it bears no relation for Carrot.
As I said, ignoring it doesn't make it minor.
Considering that even Oden didn't know why they are related and that the Mink Tribe is also included in what both factions are waiting for means that there is more to address with the Mink Tribe. Also helped is the fact that a Road Poneglyph is something they have in their possession, something that is so quintessential for the journey to the Final Island, and was what redirected this discussion from finding arbitrary Poneglyph to obtaining the "red" ones. Yeah, there's narrative relevance on that end. Not justifying nor saying if this is why Carrot is important, but it shows there's more to it than we know.
I'm arguing that because that's what he said. Most of what you're posting is things I've mentioned already, but its not that the Dukes are the ones bringing the Dawn. He specifically mentions the Luffy and the crew will do so, Momo's involvement is now brought up recently. It is specifically shown later in Pedro's confrontation with Baron Tamago that his intention to coming to Whole Cake Island in the past was to get the Road Poneglyph from Big Mom, he was being vague about the details because he didn't want to disclose what happened. Me posting the SBS was just to elaborate the history of the Nox Expedition Group.
We still don't know the full extent of what Pedro knows or what he meant, but what we are made aware is that the journey to Laugh Tale is necessary for it, which is why he was going on expeditions for Road Poneglyphs. Kin'emon only knows that Oden wanted him to open Wano's borders and that after 800 years of isolation an important figure will come. It was imperative for them to work with him when that time eventually came. He then tells his retainers to open the borders in his place since he told them that he was going to die there.
Kin'emon, Kanjuro, and Raizo rush to the palace to retrieve Toki, only for her to transport those 3 and Momonosuke in the future 20 years ahead so that they can rapidly find the awaited figure. Her final words are basically not give up hope since the day will come for what the 800 year prophecy awaits. Toki had faith that the retainers, though separated, would pull through.
He told them they would need to be opened by the time of his execution and prior to his demise. He would have done it sooner as was his intentions, but the immediate state of Wano, the incident with Toki, and Orochi's deceitful ploy and proposal delayed those plans. Oden only meant to act as a fool for 5 years, but then Orochi reveals he pulled his promise and lied, so Oden took action.
Crap translation
He’s just reaffirming that it will be twenty years until he can open the borders
He’s just reaffirming that it will be twenty years until he can open the borders
No, i actually understand it. The Kozuki and the Minks, and the world, have been waiting centuries for Wano to open their borders and work with the figure who will come. That is the dawn. It’s all laid out in Oden’s last words, including Kine’mon noting that Oden had talked to the Scabbards about opening the borders more than was shown on panel.
Adult Pedro had also narratively focused in on Luffy after knowing his relative significance from Neko and Inu bringing him to the Whale Tree. Seeing it to come to Whole Cake Island to assist in something he was completely aware of and attempted in the past knowing it would prove fruitful to the Dawn of the World. That line of reasoning was explained by Pedro to Baron Tamago why he bothered coming back. If opening the borders was all there was to it, that would have been stated. Along with the knowledge that after Oden and Roger left Zou, they had the 4 Road Poneglyphs they needed, plotted to Laugh Tale, and headed there.
Its based on hypotheticals you created on flawed logic, which you are doing now. Considering you also exempt things from reasoning, its not a great thing to write home about.
That's why I called it a prelude, its not the end result. Opening the borders of Wano was something Oden was going to do on his return and wait for the time Joy Boy came. Its only through carrying that out that it will eventually come to pass.
The Dawn of the World is changing the entire scope of the land of One Piece that has been foreshadowed through Pedro's words, not just Wano. The isolation period was just something the Kozuki Clan did to protect themselves from the World Government. Oden was going to do it returning back home, but the issues he was presented with in Wano is what caused him to shift his focus. The plot points that have arisen in Zou alone regarding the situation of the Minks homeland and eventual evacuation as well as the context behind Zuneisha's punshment considering it seems like the Kozukis can listen and apparently order him propel this narrative further. Oden upon arriving on Zou was surprised what Inu and Neko said was true in regards to their clans' relationship and he never conversed with Zuneisha, meaning yes, there's more to come that tie these 2 factions together.
The Dawn of the World predates the threat of Kaido. If anything, Kaido is a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, considering it was foretold Luffy was eventually going to arrive. That never changed, only in their ability of awaiting his arrival to do so.
I know for a fact I was the one who had addressed this in a post. It shows that the Minks are very much aware of the Dawn of the World and that they do know more than we are aware. Considering outside the Dukes, Pedro is the only one among the Minks aware of this. Carrot didn't. The dream never was about opening their borders, it was about awaiting for Luffy's arrival and that they are part of the retainers Oden had entrusted and Toki believed would help facilitate in helping him.
In other words, Kin'emon has limited knowledge. Just like us.
Only because you say so. Zuneisha's entire existence is proof that what I bolded is not correct.
The Dawn was never mentioned to be the end result of opening Wano's borders, just that doing so will ensure it. That was Oden's original intent.
Glad you brought that up, i took you’re word for it before, but having looked at the chapters Pedro doesn‘t say shit about hunting Road Poneglyphs specifically.
It is, I've already shown so.
Kind of. Though saying things like the plot lines I referred to above will be resolved by this arc's conclusion is something I'll look forward to.
The Road Poneglyphs are the only ones you need to locate Laugh Tale, which is where the hidden truth of the world Robin has sought out all her life lies. The rest is of personal interest, which means it bears no relation for Carrot.
As I said, ignoring it doesn't make it minor.
Considering that even Oden didn't know why they are related and that the Mink Tribe is also included in what both factions are waiting for means that there is more to address with the Mink Tribe. Also helped is the fact that a Road Poneglyph is something they have in their possession, something that is so quintessential for the journey to the Final Island, and was what redirected this discussion from finding arbitrary Poneglyph to obtaining the "red" ones. Yeah, there's narrative relevance on that end. Not justifying nor saying if this is why Carrot is important, but it shows there's more to it than we know.
A chronological look at how the Dawn plot has developed.
First associated with Nekomamushi, not the Strawhats. It’s something he’s waiting for. At this stage we don’t know he’s a retainer of Oden, or that the Minks and Kozuki are linked.
Pedro then tells us it’s both him and Inu that are involved in this and cannot be allowed to die. Now, if anyone can point out anything that we’ve since learned that would suggest that Inu and Neko have any relevance other than being Oden’s retainers, be my guest.
We discover Oden’s one wish in the big exposition drop in the Whale Tree, to open Wano’s borders. That is what all of them- Inu and Neko included, must dedicate their lives to, their deepest desire.
Neko emphasises that above all else, he and Inu are Oden’s retainers.
So, that’s Zou, what did we discover? That Neko and Inu, who are awaiting the dawn of the world, were Oden’s vassals who consider fulfilling his wish to be their purpose in life. That’s why they couldn‘t be allowed to die, and why the world is waiting for them. There is nothing else that suggests that Inu and Neko have a greater purpose.
We then in WCI get Pedro bringing the Strawhats into it. This is somehow seen as proof the dawn is a purpose that goes beyond Wano- I don’t see it. Waiting for centuries? That’s the isolation period.
We learn through Denjiro that Toki’s last words also talk of the dawn- and it’s linked to the nine shadows, the Scabbards. Call back to the world awaiting Inu and Neko
Then we, um, get Oden actually telling us what it is
Centuries of waiting, check, 800 year period. Why it’s sometimes the world and sometimes Wano, check, it’s Wano and the world waiting as a sign that Wano should rejoin it.
We get the promise between Oden and his vassals
Then with the climatic scene of the Scabbards confronting Kaido, it gets tied together and Kine’mon tells us that returning to Dawn to Wano was the promise they made to Oden.
Now, for some reason the official says daybreak instead of Dawn. I’ve looked at the raws, it’s the same kanjis for dawn that are used in all other situations. I suspect it’s changed because Kine’mon talks archaically as a samurai, but i don’t know for sure. Regardless, the auestion of what the dawn is has already been answered. Kine’mon only made one promise to Oden. It was the only thing that Inu and Neko are waiting for. The dawn is the opening of the borders, not answering the question of why it happens in the past. It has moved beyond Carrot to more important characters like Kine’mon, and more recently Momo
Notice the same phraseology used. “Imperative that you/I survive.” Much like Inu and Neko “had” to survive in Zou, and the Strawhats “have” to survive in WCI. It’s all for the same event, the Scabbards, Momo and Luffy opening the borders. That was Oden’s one wish, and why he told Kaido he had to survive. He said i must survive, and we realised he wouldnt’s past his dream on to the Scabbards, which was opening the borders. That was his dying wish, nothing to do with anything that happen after those borders are open
First associated with Nekomamushi, not the Strawhats. It’s something he’s waiting for. At this stage we don’t know he’s a retainer of Oden, or that the Minks and Kozuki are linked.
Pedro then tells us it’s both him and Inu that are involved in this and cannot be allowed to die. Now, if anyone can point out anything that we’ve since learned that would suggest that Inu and Neko have any relevance other than being Oden’s retainers, be my guest.
We discover Oden’s one wish in the big exposition drop in the Whale Tree, to open Wano’s borders. That is what all of them- Inu and Neko included, must dedicate their lives to, their deepest desire.
Neko emphasises that above all else, he and Inu are Oden’s retainers.
So, that’s Zou, what did we discover? That Neko and Inu, who are awaiting the dawn of the world, were Oden’s vassals who consider fulfilling his wish to be their purpose in life. That’s why they couldn‘t be allowed to die, and why the world is waiting for them. There is nothing else that suggests that Inu and Neko have a greater purpose.
We then in WCI get Pedro bringing the Strawhats into it. This is somehow seen as proof the dawn is a purpose that goes beyond Wano- I don’t see it. Waiting for centuries? That’s the isolation period.
We learn through Denjiro that Toki’s last words also talk of the dawn- and it’s linked to the nine shadows, the Scabbards. Call back to the world awaiting Inu and Neko
Then we, um, get Oden actually telling us what it is
We get the promise between Oden and his vassals
Then with the climatic scene of the Scabbards confronting Kaido, it gets tied together and Kine’mon tells us that returning to Dawn to Wano was the promise they made to Oden.
Now, for some reason the official says daybreak instead of Dawn. I’ve looked at the raws, it’s the same kanjis for dawn that are used in all other situations. I suspect it’s changed because Kine’mon talks archaically as a samurai, but i don’t know for sure. Regardless, the auestion of what the dawn is has already been answered. Kine’mon only made one promise to Oden. It was the only thing that Inu and Neko are waiting for. The dawn is the opening of the borders, not answering the question of why it happens in the past. It has moved beyond Carrot to more important characters like Kine’mon, and more recently Momo
Notice the same phraseology used. “Imperative that you/I survive.” Much like Inu and Neko “had” to survive in Zou, and the Strawhats “have” to survive in WCI. It’s all for the same event, the Scabbards, Momo and Luffy opening the borders. That was Oden’s one wish, and why he told Kaido he had to survive. He said i must survive, and we realised he wouldnt’s past his dream on to the Scabbards, which was opening the borders. That was his dying wish, nothing to do with anything that happen after those borders are open
A chronological look at how the Dawn plot has developed.
First associated with Nekomamushi, not the Strawhats. It’s something he’s waiting for. At this stage we don’t know he’s a retainer of Oden, or that the Minks and Kozuki are linked.
Pedro then tells us it’s both him and Inu that are involved in this and cannot be allowed to die. Now, if anyone can point out anything that we’ve since learned that would suggest that Inu and Neko have any relevance other than being Oden’s retainers, be my guest.
We discover Oden’s one wish in the big exposition drop in the Whale Tree, to open Wano’s borders. That is what all of them- Inu and Neko included, must dedicate their lives to, their deepest desire.
Neko emphasises that above all else, he and Inu are Oden’s retainers.
So, that’s Zou, what did we discover? That Neko and Inu, who are awaiting the dawn of the world, were Oden’s vassals who consider fulfilling his wish to be their purpose in life. That’s why they couldn‘t be allowed to die, and why the world is waiting for them. There is nothing else that suggests that Inu and Neko have a greater purpose.
We then in WCI get Pedro bringing the Strawhats into it. This is somehow seen as proof the dawn is a purpose that goes beyond Wano- I don’t see it. Waiting for centuries? That’s the isolation period.
We learn through Denjiro that Toki’s last words also talk of the dawn- and it’s linked to the nine shadows, the Scabbards. Call back to the world awaiting Inu and Neko
Then we, um, get Oden actually telling us what it is
Centuries of waiting, check, 800 year period. Why it’s sometimes the world and sometimes Wano, check, it’s Wano and the world waiting as a sign that Wano should rejoin it.
We get the promise between Oden and his vassals
Then with the climatic scene of the Scabbards confronting Kaido, it gets tied together and Kine’mon tells us that returning to Dawn to Wano was the promise they made to Oden.
Now, for some reason the official says daybreak instead of Dawn. I’ve looked at the raws, it’s the same kanjis for dawn that are used in all other situations. I suspect it’s changed because Kine’mon talks archaically as a samurai, but i don’t know for sure. Regardless, the auestion of what the dawn is has already been answered. Kine’mon only made one promise to Oden. It was the only thing that Inu and Neko are waiting for. The dawn is the opening of the borders, not answering the question of why it happens in the past. It has moved beyond Carrot to more important characters like Kine’mon, and more recently Momo
Notice the same phraseology used. “Imperative that you/I survive.” Much like Inu and Neko “had” to survive in Zou, and the Strawhats “have” to survive in WCI. It’s all for the same event, the Scabbards, Momo and Luffy opening the borders. That was Oden’s one wish, and why he told Kaido he had to survive. He said i must survive, and we realised he wouldnt’s past his dream on to the Scabbards, which was opening the borders. That was his dying wish, nothing to do with anything that happen after those borders are open
First associated with Nekomamushi, not the Strawhats. It’s something he’s waiting for. At this stage we don’t know he’s a retainer of Oden, or that the Minks and Kozuki are linked.
Pedro then tells us it’s both him and Inu that are involved in this and cannot be allowed to die. Now, if anyone can point out anything that we’ve since learned that would suggest that Inu and Neko have any relevance other than being Oden’s retainers, be my guest.
We discover Oden’s one wish in the big exposition drop in the Whale Tree, to open Wano’s borders. That is what all of them- Inu and Neko included, must dedicate their lives to, their deepest desire.
Neko emphasises that above all else, he and Inu are Oden’s retainers.
So, that’s Zou, what did we discover? That Neko and Inu, who are awaiting the dawn of the world, were Oden’s vassals who consider fulfilling his wish to be their purpose in life. That’s why they couldn‘t be allowed to die, and why the world is waiting for them. There is nothing else that suggests that Inu and Neko have a greater purpose.
We then in WCI get Pedro bringing the Strawhats into it. This is somehow seen as proof the dawn is a purpose that goes beyond Wano- I don’t see it. Waiting for centuries? That’s the isolation period.
We learn through Denjiro that Toki’s last words also talk of the dawn- and it’s linked to the nine shadows, the Scabbards. Call back to the world awaiting Inu and Neko
Then we, um, get Oden actually telling us what it is
We get the promise between Oden and his vassals
Then with the climatic scene of the Scabbards confronting Kaido, it gets tied together and Kine’mon tells us that returning to Dawn to Wano was the promise they made to Oden.
Now, for some reason the official says daybreak instead of Dawn. I’ve looked at the raws, it’s the same kanjis for dawn that are used in all other situations. I suspect it’s changed because Kine’mon talks archaically as a samurai, but i don’t know for sure. Regardless, the auestion of what the dawn is has already been answered. Kine’mon only made one promise to Oden. It was the only thing that Inu and Neko are waiting for. The dawn is the opening of the borders, not answering the question of why it happens in the past. It has moved beyond Carrot to more important characters like Kine’mon, and more recently Momo
Notice the same phraseology used. “Imperative that you/I survive.” Much like Inu and Neko “had” to survive in Zou, and the Strawhats “have” to survive in WCI. It’s all for the same event, the Scabbards, Momo and Luffy opening the borders. That was Oden’s one wish, and why he told Kaido he had to survive. He said i must survive, and we realised he wouldnt’s past his dream on to the Scabbards, which was opening the borders. That was his dying wish, nothing to do with anything that happen after those borders are open
I really need payoff to Pedro's last words and why any of it was important for specifically Carrot to know.
Before he blew himself up, he notified Carrot of the significance of the Straw Hat crew and stated why his sacrifice was necessary for their journey to continue and escape Whole Cake Island.
Back on Zou, Pedro insisted that the 2 leaders of the Mink Tribe, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi, must absolutely not die. "The world awaits them!" and "They must not die under any circumstances!"
And if you remember far back when the Sanji retrieval team left Chocotown and was traversing on a hard candy syrupy sea, he had this to say in regards to Luffy.
These disjointed statements finally became more clear once the crew settled in Wano and the prophecy of the Dawn is properly addressed and the flashback fully elaborated why the retainers have been wanting to open Wano's borders from Oden's last words.
The Nine Shadows representing the Red Scabbars, which includes Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. So Pedro's desperate plea to Sanji that they absolutely cannot die starts to make sense.
The prophecy of the Dawn of the World given by Toki, the last words Oden said to his companions, and justifying Luffy's importance in all of these events as mentioned by Pedro in being instrumental in opening Wano and that they must be prepared to welcome him when he arrives and actions afterwards.
Which explains why Inuarashi and Nekomamushi showed Luffy the Road Poneglyph and why Neko said this back during Jack's invasion on Zou.
Before he blew himself up, he notified Carrot of the significance of the Straw Hat crew and stated why his sacrifice was necessary for their journey to continue and escape Whole Cake Island.
Back on Zou, Pedro insisted that the 2 leaders of the Mink Tribe, Inuarashi and Nekomamushi, must absolutely not die. "The world awaits them!" and "They must not die under any circumstances!"
And if you remember far back when the Sanji retrieval team left Chocotown and was traversing on a hard candy syrupy sea, he had this to say in regards to Luffy.
These disjointed statements finally became more clear once the crew settled in Wano and the prophecy of the Dawn is properly addressed and the flashback fully elaborated why the retainers have been wanting to open Wano's borders from Oden's last words.
The Nine Shadows representing the Red Scabbars, which includes Inuarashi and Nekomamushi. So Pedro's desperate plea to Sanji that they absolutely cannot die starts to make sense.
The prophecy of the Dawn of the World given by Toki, the last words Oden said to his companions, and justifying Luffy's importance in all of these events as mentioned by Pedro in being instrumental in opening Wano and that they must be prepared to welcome him when he arrives and actions afterwards.
Which explains why Inuarashi and Nekomamushi showed Luffy the Road Poneglyph and why Neko said this back during Jack's invasion on Zou.
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