Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Feel free to also familiarise yourself with the definition of tactics. Strategy and tactics are not synomous or interchangeable. The former is the what, the latter is the how.
The strategy was to take Nanyou without fighting. The tactic to achieve that was psychological warfare.
The method Tou initially proposed to execute psychological warfare was the use of another 100K army that wouldn't actually fight in the campaign, which can also be attributed to Kyou Kai as a matter of common sense.
What cannot be attributed to Kyou Kai, unless you have evidence to the contrary, is Tou pivoting to using non-soldiers as an alternative method for psychological warfare.
I'll reiterate the part you chose to leave out:
If Tou was after non-soldiers all along, he would have simply led with that. If Kyou Kai's suggestion was to use non-soldiers from the beginning, Hara would've shown that either in real time or in a flashback. Instead, only Tou is associated with that specific method.
If one asks the Head of Military affairs for an additional 100K army, it is implicitely understood they are asking for soldiers fit for purpose unless they specifiy otherwise.
I didn't selectively post panels, I provided the pages that clearly show Tou getting turned down on his initial request and then - again - pivoting to non-soldiers.
There's no evidence you can cite to prove or suggest Kyou Kai's proposal hinged on the use of non-soldiers all along, because it didn't.
Therefore, this characterisation is simply incorrect.
Kyou Kai shares in the credit for deceiving Han, but not for the use of non-soldiers specifically.
The strategy was to take Nanyou without fighting. The tactic to achieve that was psychological warfare.
The method Tou initially proposed to execute psychological warfare was the use of another 100K army that wouldn't actually fight in the campaign, which can also be attributed to Kyou Kai as a matter of common sense.
What cannot be attributed to Kyou Kai, unless you have evidence to the contrary, is Tou pivoting to using non-soldiers as an alternative method for psychological warfare.
I'll reiterate the part you chose to leave out:
If Tou was after non-soldiers all along, he would have simply led with that. If Kyou Kai's suggestion was to use non-soldiers from the beginning, Hara would've shown that either in real time or in a flashback. Instead, only Tou is associated with that specific method.
If one asks the Head of Military affairs for an additional 100K army, it is implicitely understood they are asking for soldiers fit for purpose unless they specifiy otherwise.
I didn't selectively post panels, I provided the pages that clearly show Tou getting turned down on his initial request and then - again - pivoting to non-soldiers.
If the use of non-soldiers specifically was the plan all along, Tou would've led with that, rather than asking for another 100K soldiers without specifiying, and then suggesting non-soldiers as a solution.
Therefore, this characterisation is simply incorrect.
Kyou Kai shares in the credit for deceiving Han, but not for the use of non-soldiers specifically.
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And he did specify it. He just did it after SHK and SBK interrupted him.
Tou asking for additional army of soldiers implies that he didn't knew Qin's conscript capabilities. Which is contradictory to what was stated earlier. Tou already knew about Three Pillars Plan and how many new soldiers Qin can afford. So if he already knew that Qin don't have more soldiers to spare then why would he ask for more soldiers? See the problem?
Tou asking for additional army of soldiers implies that he didn't knew Qin's conscript capabilities. Which is contradictory to what was stated earlier. Tou already knew about Three Pillars Plan and how many new soldiers Qin can afford. So if he already knew that Qin don't have more soldiers to spare then why would he ask for more soldiers? See the problem?
I just posted the pages for your benefit.
Tou made his request for 100K, without interruption, received a response from Shou Hei Kun, and then pivoted.
There is no problem because the 200K recruited were explicitely raised to achieve the goals of the campaign, i.e. fighting.
Tou never intended for the additional 100K soldiers to do anything other than march and turnaround. Qin still had plenty of soldiers to pull from their cities, castles, garrisons, etc. for a short period of time.
But let's say that true, and Tou did in fact plan to ask for non-soldiers all along, I simply point you back to another response you chose to leave out.
It is agreed Kyou Kai shares in the credit for the use of psychological warfare, i.e. to take Nanyou without fighting.
What is not agreed, because it cannot be proven, is that Kyou Kai originated the idea of using non-soldiers. That hasn't been attributed to her in past or present, explicitely or implicitely. I, again, invite you to provide evidence of that - evidence I am telling you does not exist in the manga.
Tou made his request for 100K, without interruption, received a response from Shou Hei Kun, and then pivoted.
There is no problem because the 200K recruited were explicitely raised to achieve the goals of the campaign, i.e. fighting.
Tou never intended for the additional 100K soldiers to do anything other than march and turnaround. Qin still had plenty of soldiers to pull from their cities, castles, garrisons, etc. for a short period of time.
But let's say that true, and Tou did in fact plan to ask for non-soldiers all along, I simply point you back to another response you chose to leave out.
It is agreed Kyou Kai shares in the credit for the use of psychological warfare, i.e. to take Nanyou without fighting.
What is not agreed, because it cannot be proven, is that Kyou Kai originated the idea of using non-soldiers. That hasn't been attributed to her in past or present, explicitely or implicitely. I, again, invite you to provide evidence of that - evidence I am telling you does not exist in the manga.
There literally was an interruption.
Tou: Starts explaining he needs 100k men.
SBK right after he said that: WHAT? IMPOSSIBLE. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.
SHK: Doubles down on what SBK said.
Tou: It's fine if they arent soldiers.
I don't see how from this conversation you can come to a conclusion that the old men plan wasn't already formed when he asked for men. Especially considering Tou's response.
Except the conversation in the capitol suggests that simply raising such army would be a problem. SHK points out that he understands Tou's intentions of using them for psychological warfare, but bringing such army of soldiers would still be impossible.
Pulling soldiers from the existing castles would create openings in their defences which other states would exploit. Tou is not stupid enough to not know this and ask for soldiers regardless.
Hara never made that distinction, so it doesn't matter. In Kingdom strategy is synonymous with creating plans. Kyoukai being credited for strategy basically means she is credited for the plan.
Tou: Starts explaining he needs 100k men.
SBK right after he said that: WHAT? IMPOSSIBLE. WE CAN'T AFFORD IT.
SHK: Doubles down on what SBK said.
Tou: It's fine if they arent soldiers.
I don't see how from this conversation you can come to a conclusion that the old men plan wasn't already formed when he asked for men. Especially considering Tou's response.
Except the conversation in the capitol suggests that simply raising such army would be a problem. SHK points out that he understands Tou's intentions of using them for psychological warfare, but bringing such army of soldiers would still be impossible.
Pulling soldiers from the existing castles would create openings in their defences which other states would exploit. Tou is not stupid enough to not know this and ask for soldiers regardless.
Hara never made that distinction, so it doesn't matter. In Kingdom strategy is synonymous with creating plans. Kyoukai being credited for strategy basically means she is credited for the plan.
My guy, it's right there in black and white. Tou wasn't cut off in the middle of a sentence, there was no interruption, he made his request and received a response.
As SHK's reaction to the non-soldiers part clearly conveys, he didn't actually understand what Tou's psychological warfare entailed. What is it that you think the "!?" and ".... I see. That would be possible" meant?
Obviously, SHK didn't suss out what Tou's psychological warfare entailed until after Tou revealed it could be achieved without the use of soldiers.
That depends entirely on where they're pulling their forces from, and it's not like they would have to empty every source they pull from, it would be no different than the castles and garrisons of Han sending portions of their forces. Aside from the difference being Qin is a much bigger country, and they didn't even empty ever source they pulled fresh conscripts from.
Those soldiers also have to march and train regularly, which could've been used as cover. What great risk would there actually be? I say none worth worrying about to the extent you're suggesting.
Even during the Coalition War, the Qin still didn’t deploy every last soldier and empty every garrison.
Hara does in fact make that distinction, and you are again conflating the two.
Kyou Kai is credited for the strategy because the strategy hasn't changed. If you think of strategy as the plan, then think of tactics as the steps to that plan.
The steps taken to carry out that the plan, i.e. the tactics to execute the strategy, did change.
As SHK's reaction to the non-soldiers part clearly conveys, he didn't actually understand what Tou's psychological warfare entailed. What is it that you think the "!?" and ".... I see. That would be possible" meant?
Obviously, SHK didn't suss out what Tou's psychological warfare entailed until after Tou revealed it could be achieved without the use of soldiers.
That depends entirely on where they're pulling their forces from, and it's not like they would have to empty every source they pull from, it would be no different than the castles and garrisons of Han sending portions of their forces. Aside from the difference being Qin is a much bigger country, and they didn't even empty ever source they pulled fresh conscripts from.
Those soldiers also have to march and train regularly, which could've been used as cover. What great risk would there actually be? I say none worth worrying about to the extent you're suggesting.
Even during the Coalition War, the Qin still didn’t deploy every last soldier and empty every garrison.
Hara does in fact make that distinction, and you are again conflating the two.
Kyou Kai is credited for the strategy because the strategy hasn't changed. If you think of strategy as the plan, then think of tactics as the steps to that plan.
The steps taken to carry out that the plan, i.e. the tactics to execute the strategy, did change.
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Gian or Hango kinda disprove that I think? Gian with Qin losing and Kanki dying and Hango with everyone expecting it to be a long battle but instead Ousen got folded (regardless of the writing quality). Two big back to back unexpected Qin defeats.
And it's not like anyone would realistically think Coalition was going to end with Qin losing and getting destroyed unless they were reading it at the time it was released and were afraid the whole series would have a tragic ending at like Chapter 300.
And it's not like anyone would realistically think Coalition was going to end with Qin losing and getting destroyed unless they were reading it at the time it was released and were afraid the whole series would have a tragic ending at like Chapter 300.
Idk i just felt with Han arc, hype and tension were missing. Writing itself ain't that bad either, but I'm not enjoying this arc as i used to.
.......
Anyhow, do anyone else also think Yoko Yoko could end up not being from Han?
Tou comment kinda hint a mystery surrounding him, like he's someone he knows from past/someone that shouldn't be here, or that he's someone better than he's letting onto.
That mask Yoko Yoko is wearing is also very convenient, like it's hiding his real identity and it could built up for later, and Yoko Yoko is here just to aid Han.
If that ends up being true, then that would mean someone out there precisely predicted Qin attacking Han at this point, and sent Yoko Yoko there. It'd be good hype/intro for new GG for Chu(maybe).
.......
Anyhow, do anyone else also think Yoko Yoko could end up not being from Han?
Tou comment kinda hint a mystery surrounding him, like he's someone he knows from past/someone that shouldn't be here, or that he's someone better than he's letting onto.
That mask Yoko Yoko is wearing is also very convenient, like it's hiding his real identity and it could built up for later, and Yoko Yoko is here just to aid Han.
If that ends up being true, then that would mean someone out there precisely predicted Qin attacking Han at this point, and sent Yoko Yoko there. It'd be good hype/intro for new GG for Chu(maybe).
https://mangaraw.mom/manga/kingudamu/chapter-830
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@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion @Alexis2282AE @BanditKanki @moreha9685 @PlasmaSnake
Credit to TKC
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Bepo @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion @Ou Zen @GUI VI @Alexis2282AE @Ousen @BanditKanki @moreha9685 @PlasmaSnake
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Bepo @Daniel @Pot Goblin @centurion @Ou Zen @GUI VI @Alexis2282AE @Ousen @BanditKanki @moreha9685 @PlasmaSnake