Powers & Abilities "Advanced CoC" is not a thing. This is "Advanced Ryou" + CoC.

[Shasha23]

Like I said lol, look at the raws. The attack is in full quotations. There is no "...." indicating he didn't finish the name.

Its not a G2 or G3 punch. It's why the name is different. He commented on why Kaido is dodging because he's using Adv CoA.

The way he was shouting out the attack was clear he didn't complete it, that's why unlike everytime he attack he was talking and pausing, the Gomu Gomu Red was never an attack meant to land.

He laughed and commented because Kaido dodging just confirmed what he was thinking, look at every other time Luffy uses an attack, he doesn't say : gomu............gomu...........no............pistol, he always says gomu gomu no pistol, the pausing is meant to indicate Luffy is actually pretending, and since he is bad at lying he didn't even do it correctly but Kaido still dodged since he was afraid it would hurt.

 

[Paperchampion23]

The way he was shouting out the attack was clear he didn't complete it, that's why unlike everytime he attack he was talking and pausing, the Gomu Gomu Red was never an attack meant to land.

He laughed and commented because Kaido dodging just confirmed what he was thinking, look at every other time Luffy uses an attack, he doesn't say : gomu............gomu...........no............pistol, he always says gomu gomu no pistol, the pausing is meant to indicate Luffy is actually pretending, and since he is bad at lying he didn't even do it correctly but Kaido still dodged since he was afraid it would hurt.

I don't think you get it lol

In the Japanese Raw, Luffy says the full attack in quotations. Hes not cutting off the attack. He entirely says the word "Red" (which is just the Kanji for Fire btw). You see how he says "Gomu Gomu no"..... in Japanese? ("ゴムゴムの"...... in the dialogue). That's cut off dialogue. Red is not. Its a new attack.

Again, hes also not in G3, so it's not Red Roc. Red Roc is specifically a G3 name. It references a Giant Mythical Bird, hence the size of the attack. This is luffys normal arm

 

[Finalbeta]

Luffy's clash with Chinjao and Katakuri was pure contact while Luffy kicked Kaido's club away without contacting it. Clear difference.

CoA vs CoC

 

[BlackLegFring]

It's simply a mess is what it is.

 

[JerAx]

yes I dont think this is advance COC, this is more like coc+ryou (even though its technically incorrect, lets just agree that adv coa = ryou for simplicity).
roger and wb have this exact setup, thus the no touching. meanwhile someone else theorized that kaido dont really have ryou, but is more apt at doing coc, thus the black lightning.

coa + coc = black lightning
ryou + coc = no touching shit.
say what you want, the fact that we can theorize this much without even any exposition, oda clearly watch a lot of movies because this is a usual movie trope, not anime trope.

advance coc will be shown once we are in shank's teritory.

 

[sanjikun]

yes I dont think this is advance COC, this is more like coc+ryou (even though its technically incorrect, lets just agree that adv coa = ryou for simplicity).
roger and wb have this exact setup, thus the no touching. meanwhile someone else theorized that kaido dont really have ryou, but is more apt at doing coc, thus the black lightning.

coa + coc = black lightning
ryou + coc = no touching shit.
say what you want, the fact that we can theorize this much without even any exposition, oda clearly watch a lot of movies because this is a usual movie trope, not anime trope.

advance coc will be shown once we are in shank's teritory.

The reason I don't think this is "advanced CoC" is because Luffy immediately did it with no hesitation.

Think about how much Luffy struggled to get ACoA and ACoO (FS). It makes no sense for him to just unlock ACoC instantly after learning about it.

It took him days for CoA, and 12 hours for CoO. Why would he unlock ACoC that easily in a split second?

 

[MonsterKaido]

Imo kaido is only using adv coc where as luffy is using adv coc + adv coa

 

[Finalbeta]

If Oda allows to combine CoC with CoA things will get so spicey.

I can already presume Blackbeard's head to be smashed around.

 

[Patryipe]

By looking at all the panels, it becomes clear that CoA is mixed with CoC. Law's comment like Oden, solidifies that Roger/Rayleigh were using CoC. But they also were using CoA by looking at their blades.

So all they're doing is adding CoC to their CoA attacks, which has already happened countless times.

You don't need some special form of CoC to do what Luffy did. You need special form of CoA, and you interlace that with CoC. Imo this was CoA hardening + CoC, a minor version of what Luffy is doing now.

This would mean that Luffy never used level 3 CoA up until now? All of his attacks had physical contact.

 

[omegalul]

roger/wb/luffy uses CoC + CoA

kaido uses CoC

kaido's CoC attack (ragnarok) makes contact, luffy's CoC/CoA don't

 

[draganax]

dude, i was waiting for someone to say this,
just one thing though ryou isn't CoA either, hyogoro said it's not forceful it's just flowing the unnecessary haki (raw) surrounding the body into the fist, that's just the concept, the thing is (i think) if you make that haki into CoA it becomes the repelling force field, but if you make it into CoC it does internal damage, and when you mix both it'll give you what luffy did in the chapter, the difference lies in the applications of the concept.
the first time luffy used internal destruction hyogoro thought to himself that the ability luffy used is beyond any ryou he can teach him, then he told luffy to keep doing it while the feeling of it is still fresh in his memory, luffy thought it's CoA and didn't realize it was CoC, so the version he was using based on his first experience was not ideal.
when luffy broke yamato's handcuffs he was concentrating which means he tries to get the feeling of it right,
another thing is that kaido's first thunder bagua is the reason than inspired luffy to learn ryou. and because it damaged him he thought it was CoA.

 

[Rivaille]

This actually is CoA. Rayleigh with the elephant. Sentoumaru against Luffy. The Admirals against Whitebeard.

People forget that there are 3 levels explained. This was retconned as stage 2 CoA basically. Stage 3 is essentially applying that and it becoming internal destruction (Luffy vs the Tree in Ch 955).

I agree with @sanjikun , this is Stage 1, 2 and/or 3 CoA with CoC applied. When Luffy blocks the Kanabo, its stage 2 with CoC. When Luffy attacks Kaido, likely stage 3 with CoC


I agree that this shit is confusing though, but this is how I understand it atm

It is not confusing.
CoC allows you to enhance anything you applied on. Therefore when Luffy is applying CoC on barrier CoA, the barrier is thick enough to allow him to not touch his opponent directly.

Another example is Big Mom scream. What allows the scream to be so powerful that it can stop and destroy rockets is CoC.

 

[draganax]

I had this exact same thought since the chapter dropped and it's still confusing.

Why would Oda focus the entirety of Act 2 to make Luffy gain the Advanced levels of CoA when he throws it overboard immediately.

- What creates the barrier ?
- Do the attacks only hit harder or do they effect the inside ?

Kaido coughed up blood after Luffy hit him to the stomach and since no scales were destroyed I can only imagine that internal destruction was used.

Why would Oda show Hyo's Advanced armament training when Luffy just uses a Advanced CoC only ability.

Either way, it is far too confusing and we need context.

the point of udon training was for luffy to master the concept of flow, hyogoro didn't specify the type of haki the user clad himself with, he only said unnecessary haki that surrounds the user's body. so it might be haki in it's raw state.
that creates up to tree applications to that concept:
1- if the user made that raw haki into CoA it creates the invisible armor.
2- ............................................................. into CoC it does internal damage.
3- if the user used the previous applications at the same time it'll give you the same thing kaido and luffy / roger and whitebeard did.

 

[Garps tekkai]

He needs to let it flow aswell and then release it into a controlled haki blast.
It definitely follows the same principles as CoA haki flow and its advanced applications-that's just the nature of haki- but I dunno if it's used on top of it or whether it's somehow fused with it.

At one hand it looks like it"s an entirely different thing, as it has the special quirk of suppressing other people's wills, which CoA does not have, but on the other hand I doubt Luffy still could use CoC after exceeding his G4 timelimit. Hmm..