Speculations Akainu The Last Hope

#81
Too bad Kizaru wasn’t targeting Luffy then. Then again, even adv CoC from Kaido couldn’t much to Luffy, and now we’re reading his eulogy
:pepemy:
Poor old Kaido was also seeing stars even when Luffy was just in test drive. Seems adv CoC couldn’t stop it
:pepecafe:
You mean Luffy keeps eating Lizaru's attacks? :ihaha: Even his accelerated kick did nothing and luffy highlighted barrier for damage.

Lizaru's kicks barely was doing anything to pre skip luffy lmfao :risiup:

Kaido ate 100s of attack where Lizaru? ONE attack did bozo in :shame:
 
#82
You mean Luffy keeps eating Lizaru's attacks? :ihaha: Even his accelerated kick did nothing and luffy highlighted barrier for damage.

Lizaru's kicks barely was doing anything to pre skip luffy lmfao :risiup:

Kaido ate 100s of attack where Lizaru? ONE attack did bozo in :shame:
Nah, wasn’t Luffy dodging even basic laser beams?
:risitavirus:

Too bad Kizaru ain’t aiming to kill, but Kaido even with adv CoC couldn’t kill Kinemon even while begging him to die
:risitasad:
Kaido eating attacks because he’s into masochism doesn’t mean everyone else should follow suit
:sanjismug:
 
#83
Akainu has mad feats and portrayal. Blackbeard took his whole crew and ran from Akainu who came solo. Very wise decision of course. Aokiji just froze his crew, Akainu would have straight up killed or handicapped 80 % of the crew. So even if they won they would be in a very bad state.
 
#86
Akainu will be a beast regardless of what goes down. Luffy or Dragon (or Sabo), whoever he faces, he'll give them the fight of their lives. His devil fruit power is as lethal as it gets, he melts off limbs or leaves people in critical condition pretty much any time he faces someone seriously 1v1. He managed to damage Whitebeard to a ridiculous extent and took powerful blows and still managed to be relevant later in the war. Oda will do him justice. I would enjoy a Dragon v Akainu but I'm a supporter of Luffy vs Akainu as pay-baxk for mentally and physically scarring and taking away his brother.

In my opinion, the Admirals haven't been too bad but due to us being in the final saga, there are now clashes between factions aside from the Straw Hats so someone winds up looking less than perfect cause not every top-tier is the same in strength or hype. Aramaki's firmly below Kaido and Shanks in my opinion but he's still a top-tier and will likely have many more showings in the future. His regeneration, hax vines and logia are already fitting for his level, he just got the short end of the stick when Shanks showed up.

Aokiji got overwhelmed a few times by Garp but that's literally the strongest Marine in history in old age, no shame. After Aokiji's 10 day, climate-altering showing, getting schooled in a few exchanges doesn't erase all of that, especially when his head wasn't completely in it (doesn't erase getting blitzed though). Fujitora sandbags quite a lot but his will is untouched so I expect a lot from him.

Kizaru has a great ability and would pose a problem for any top-tier due to his speed but not being as durable as Kaido or Big Mom is expected. He makes up for it with his logia, light-speed and clones. But yeah, I kinda view Luffy as coming off better in their exchange but Kizaru did wear out G5 so the fight has yet to truly end. Hopefully Oda gives us a round 2 but maybe he'll just move on to Luffy vs Kizaru.

Overall, the Admirals are fine. They're still top-tiers and Akaiju will definitely show off. Even when he gets bested in an exhnage, the other opponent leaves it missing half a head, I'm not worried about him. I just hope Fuji gets a chance to show off cause he's always in difficult situations due to following his own agenda. Gravity and meteor-pulling is pretty amazing.
You always (while I was lurking) struck me as the least agenda-driven person on this forum. Every time I read your takes, they are like a breath of fresh air.
 
#87
You always (while I was lurking) struck me as the least agenda-driven person on this forum. Every time I read your takes, they are like a breath of fresh air.
Thanks a lot. I like certain characters and groups but I don't let that get in the way of my appreciation of others or the series as a whole. I mainly just come to forums to express my feelings on a character, development or topic, I don't see a need to downplay Emperors/Admirals because I like the other, they're both great groups.
 
#89
Huh? I don’t see your response to why your math doesn’t add up anywhere?
Did you think I would forget?
My math adds up.

Forget what? You are the one forgetting stuff here - namely, the fact that Admirals are not the only strong fighters that the Navy has.

Besides that, do you not know what the “=~” sign means? You can’t start backtracking and pretend you never said that just 1 Yonko empire was comparable to the Navy & Warlords.
Those were your own very words. Navy + Warlords =~ 1 Yonko empire.
You’re only changing your tune now that I’ve shown how silly that is.
Uh, ~= means approximately. Meaning it balances out.

Besides that, the Navy needing to deploy 2 Admirals to defeat a Yonko applies regardless of whether the Admirals are exactly equal or slightly stronger or weaker. I already mentioned that, so that excuse doesn’t work.
They will always need to send 2 Admirals for a guaranteed victory unless there’s so much of a difference in strength that 1 Admiral is always guaranteed to win against a Yonko or so much weaker that even 2 Admirals had no chance of doing the job. Both those options are clearly silly.
You are forgetting (or rather, deliberately ignoring) that Navy has Fleet Admiral + 3 Admirals + a shitload of Vice Admirals.

Which then means that you need two Admirals against a Yonko, not just an Admiral and a bunch of Vice Admirals, which would be enough if we assume that Admiral = Yonko.

So why doesn’t the math add up even when using the disingenuous reasoning of pretending that Cross Guild bounties are equivalent to WG ones? Curious, no?
Except it does.

If Admiral = Yonko, then you don't need two Admirals to ensure victory against a Yonko, just an Admiral + some Vice Admirals. We saw that Yonko Commander can stall another Yonko, and stronger Vice Admirals are not that much weaker.

But if Yonko is stronger than an Admiral, then you need two Admirals against a Yonko.

Stop acting like Admirals are the only strong fighters in the Navy.

All I did was point out the lies, omissions, prevarications and illogical statements you were making. Again, it’s not like your comments just disappeared:
- you tried to equate clearly distinct things like CG bounties & WG ones
- Ignored context for situations involving the Admirals while conveniently only remembering it when it came to the Yonko
- Made illogical claims like “a military shouldn’t consider all possibilities. They should only expect their multiple enemies to attack 1 at a time.”
- CG and WG bounties are obviously going to be relative to each other. Yes, it doesn't mean much in-universe, but bounties are a story tool.
- I never ignored context, you simply made stuff up.
- No, you are just making stuff up to make Admirals look better. Fact of the matter is, if Admiral = Yonko, then the World Government could have wiped out Yonko empires one by one. Yet it didn't. Why? And no, balance of power excuse doesn't work: any government wants to be an absolute authority, and Yonko aren't mafia, they are literally rulers with their own territories and subjects. The only way WG wouldn't wipe them out is if it couldn't.

Where’s the lie? Are you going to try to dispute that when your comments are right there? Come on now.
If you are seriously using "Eustass Kid vs Red Hair Pirates" as an argument for anything, then you are lying about having read the manga. Because Red Hair fleets are specifically pointed out as having been unusually pathetic, with the Red Hair Pirates' own crew being the only crew that has any fighting power of all of the Red Hair allied fleets.

Capisci?

Also, your excuses still don’t work. Countries throughout history still attack each other because would you believe it, unlike you they consider all possibilities and cover their backsides. They make pacts, keep forces in reserve, prepare contingencies, etc.
They don’t have the luxury of expecting their foes to only attack one at a time like you suggest. Again, even beyond just basic military sense, it’s common sense 101.
The WG doesn’t have the luxury of thinking that the Yonko have a set schedule where the others agree to do nothing when one makes a move.
LOLno, they do not consider all possibilities and they don't cover their backsides. If you really believe they do, then you don't have the first clue about history.

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, do you really think they considered all possibilities? No. OK, maybe the Navy did - and Yamamoto warned against the attack. But the government (consisting of generals) failed to consider any possibility other than surprise attack = victory.

When Hannibal invaded Italy, he had a plan to defeat the Roman Republic, and utterly failed at considering what may happen if he didn't succeed. In fact, he didn't even have a Plan B.

When Crassus invaded Parthia, he failed to consider any of the things you had listed above.

French Republic decided to invade Egypt, and completely failed to consider a) the fact that they were invading a hithertho ally and b) question of how are they going to supply and support an effort overseas in face of British naval dominance. Needless to say, the invasion failed.

When Hitler invaded Poland, he failed to even consider the possibility of UK and France declaring war. Had the Allies made any serious offensive in 1939 or even 1940, they will have overran the weakly-defended German Western border and won the war then and there. Things is, they assumed that Hitler did in fact consider the possibility of the attack, and that any such offensive would have unacceptable casualties, and so decided not to do it.

Mao did his Great Leap Forward, and murdered 30 to 60 million of his own people.

United States invaded Afghanistan, and then proceeded to simply form a "democratic government" with absolutely no regard for Afghan culture, tribal loyalties or literally anything they should have considered when forming a new Afghan government. And then went all surprised Pikachu face when the Taliban won.

Humans are shit at "considering all possibilities", and governments are not exempt from that fact. In fact, being bureaucracies, governments are distinctly worse at it.

And Yonko are not allies. World Government has no reason to believe that all the other Yonkos would gang up on it the moment it moved against a single Yonko.

We don’t have all eternity to be going over this. Just answer the simple question of why your math doesn’t add up. Navy & Warlords vs Big Mom pirates bounties…why is it so far from “=~” ?
Because "=~" was never supposed to be equal. I was clear from the beginning that only the Whitebeard Pirates may have been capable of even challenging the Navy + Warlords one-on-one, and no other Yonko had a chance at that. But at the same time, you cannot have a Yonko being 1/4 the strength of the Admirals, because then Navy could wipe them out one by one.

It is like pre-WWII United States, United Kingdom, USSR and Japan all being great powers, or today, United States, China, India and Russia. Doesn't mean that they are all equal, but at the same time, no single great power could match all the the others at the same time in war.
 
#90
My math adds up.

Forget what? You are the one forgetting stuff here - namely, the fact that Admirals are not the only strong fighters that the Navy has.



Uh, ~= means approximately. Meaning it balances out.



You are forgetting (or rather, deliberately ignoring) that Navy has Fleet Admiral + 3 Admirals + a shitload of Vice Admirals.

Which then means that you need two Admirals against a Yonko, not just an Admiral and a bunch of Vice Admirals, which would be enough if we assume that Admiral = Yonko.



Except it does.

If Admiral = Yonko, then you don't need two Admirals to ensure victory against a Yonko, just an Admiral + some Vice Admirals. We saw that Yonko Commander can stall another Yonko, and stronger Vice Admirals are not that much weaker.

But if Yonko is stronger than an Admiral, then you need two Admirals against a Yonko.

Stop acting like Admirals are the only strong fighters in the Navy.



- CG and WG bounties are obviously going to be relative to each other. Yes, it doesn't mean much in-universe, but bounties are a story tool.
- I never ignored context, you simply made stuff up.
- No, you are just making stuff up to make Admirals look better. Fact of the matter is, if Admiral = Yonko, then the World Government could have wiped out Yonko empires one by one. Yet it didn't. Why? And no, balance of power excuse doesn't work: any government wants to be an absolute authority, and Yonko aren't mafia, they are literally rulers with their own territories and subjects. The only way WG wouldn't wipe them out is if it couldn't.



If you are seriously using "Eustass Kid vs Red Hair Pirates" as an argument for anything, then you are lying about having read the manga. Because Red Hair fleets are specifically pointed out as having been unusually pathetic, with the Red Hair Pirates' own crew being the only crew that has any fighting power of all of the Red Hair allied fleets.

Capisci?



LOLno, they do not consider all possibilities and they don't cover their backsides. If you really believe they do, then you don't have the first clue about history.

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, do you really think they considered all possibilities? No. OK, maybe the Navy did - and Yamamoto warned against the attack. But the government (consisting of generals) failed to consider any possibility other than surprise attack = victory.

When Hannibal invaded Italy, he had a plan to defeat the Roman Republic, and utterly failed at considering what may happen if he didn't succeed. In fact, he didn't even have a Plan B.

When Crassus invaded Parthia, he failed to consider any of the things you had listed above.

French Republic decided to invade Egypt, and completely failed to consider a) the fact that they were invading a hithertho ally and b) question of how are they going to supply and support an effort overseas in face of British naval dominance. Needless to say, the invasion failed.

When Hitler invaded Poland, he failed to even consider the possibility of UK and France declaring war. Had the Allies made any serious offensive in 1939 or even 1940, they will have overran the weakly-defended German Western border and won the war then and there. Things is, they assumed that Hitler did in fact consider the possibility of the attack, and that any such offensive would have unacceptable casualties, and so decided not to do it.

Mao did his Great Leap Forward, and murdered 30 to 60 million of his own people.

United States invaded Afghanistan, and then proceeded to simply form a "democratic government" with absolutely no regard for Afghan culture, tribal loyalties or literally anything they should have considered when forming a new Afghan government. And then went all surprised Pikachu face when the Taliban won.

Humans are shit at "considering all possibilities", and governments are not exempt from that fact. In fact, being bureaucracies, governments are distinctly worse at it.

And Yonko are not allies. World Government has no reason to believe that all the other Yonkos would gang up on it the moment it moved against a single Yonko.



Because "=~" was never supposed to be equal. I was clear from the beginning that only the Whitebeard Pirates may have been capable of even challenging the Navy + Warlords one-on-one, and no other Yonko had a chance at that. But at the same time, you cannot have a Yonko being 1/4 the strength of the Admirals, because then Navy could wipe them out one by one.

It is like pre-WWII United States, United Kingdom, USSR and Japan all being great powers, or today, United States, China, India and Russia. Doesn't mean that they are all equal, but at the same time, no single great power could match all the the others at the same time in war.
Just to warn you. That guy has a very clear admiral agenda. He shamefully will argue even after proven wrong.
 
#91
My math adds up.

Forget what? You are the one forgetting stuff here - namely, the fact that Admirals are not the only strong fighters that the Navy has.



Uh, ~= means approximately. Meaning it balances out.



You are forgetting (or rather, deliberately ignoring) that Navy has Fleet Admiral + 3 Admirals + a shitload of Vice Admirals.

Which then means that you need two Admirals against a Yonko, not just an Admiral and a bunch of Vice Admirals, which would be enough if we assume that Admiral = Yonko.



Except it does.

If Admiral = Yonko, then you don't need two Admirals to ensure victory against a Yonko, just an Admiral + some Vice Admirals. We saw that Yonko Commander can stall another Yonko, and stronger Vice Admirals are not that much weaker.

But if Yonko is stronger than an Admiral, then you need two Admirals against a Yonko.

Stop acting like Admirals are the only strong fighters in the Navy.



- CG and WG bounties are obviously going to be relative to each other. Yes, it doesn't mean much in-universe, but bounties are a story tool.
- I never ignored context, you simply made stuff up.
- No, you are just making stuff up to make Admirals look better. Fact of the matter is, if Admiral = Yonko, then the World Government could have wiped out Yonko empires one by one. Yet it didn't. Why? And no, balance of power excuse doesn't work: any government wants to be an absolute authority, and Yonko aren't mafia, they are literally rulers with their own territories and subjects. The only way WG wouldn't wipe them out is if it couldn't.



If you are seriously using "Eustass Kid vs Red Hair Pirates" as an argument for anything, then you are lying about having read the manga. Because Red Hair fleets are specifically pointed out as having been unusually pathetic, with the Red Hair Pirates' own crew being the only crew that has any fighting power of all of the Red Hair allied fleets.

Capisci?



LOLno, they do not consider all possibilities and they don't cover their backsides. If you really believe they do, then you don't have the first clue about history.

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, do you really think they considered all possibilities? No. OK, maybe the Navy did - and Yamamoto warned against the attack. But the government (consisting of generals) failed to consider any possibility other than surprise attack = victory.

When Hannibal invaded Italy, he had a plan to defeat the Roman Republic, and utterly failed at considering what may happen if he didn't succeed. In fact, he didn't even have a Plan B.

When Crassus invaded Parthia, he failed to consider any of the things you had listed above.

French Republic decided to invade Egypt, and completely failed to consider a) the fact that they were invading a hithertho ally and b) question of how are they going to supply and support an effort overseas in face of British naval dominance. Needless to say, the invasion failed.

When Hitler invaded Poland, he failed to even consider the possibility of UK and France declaring war. Had the Allies made any serious offensive in 1939 or even 1940, they will have overran the weakly-defended German Western border and won the war then and there. Things is, they assumed that Hitler did in fact consider the possibility of the attack, and that any such offensive would have unacceptable casualties, and so decided not to do it.

Mao did his Great Leap Forward, and murdered 30 to 60 million of his own people.

United States invaded Afghanistan, and then proceeded to simply form a "democratic government" with absolutely no regard for Afghan culture, tribal loyalties or literally anything they should have considered when forming a new Afghan government. And then went all surprised Pikachu face when the Taliban won.

Humans are shit at "considering all possibilities", and governments are not exempt from that fact. In fact, being bureaucracies, governments are distinctly worse at it.

And Yonko are not allies. World Government has no reason to believe that all the other Yonkos would gang up on it the moment it moved against a single Yonko.



Because "=~" was never supposed to be equal. I was clear from the beginning that only the Whitebeard Pirates may have been capable of even challenging the Navy + Warlords one-on-one, and no other Yonko had a chance at that. But at the same time, you cannot have a Yonko being 1/4 the strength of the Admirals, because then Navy could wipe them out one by one.

It is like pre-WWII United States, United Kingdom, USSR and Japan all being great powers, or today, United States, China, India and Russia. Doesn't mean that they are all equal, but at the same time, no single great power could match all the the others at the same time in war.
No it doesn’t add up. Again, just using the top from each side:

Big Mom pirates = 4.3 bil, 1.05 bil, 932 mil, 865 mil, 700 mil, 600 mil

Navy & Warlords = 3.5 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil

That’s more than a 10 bil difference, so how on earth did you get “=~” from that? Do you now not know how to do basic arithmetic on top of everything else?

Don’t try and waste my time until you are able to explain why your math is so terribly off even while disingenuously pretending like Cross Guild bounties are equivalent to WG ones. I don’t have eternity to waste on such nonsense.
You took like a week and couldn’t come up with anything better than “nuh uh. 5 =~ 15”

It’s also kinda ironic that someone like Soma just exposed he can’t do basic math either just because of his hate boner for the Admirals. It’s like actual brain rot!
:saden:
 
#92
No it doesn’t add up. Again, just using the top from each side:

Big Mom pirates = 4.3 bil, 1.05 bil, 932 mil, 865 mil, 700 mil, 600 mil

Navy & Warlords = 3.5 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil, 3 bil

That’s more than a 10 bil difference, so how on earth did you get “=~” from that? Do you now not know how to do basic arithmetic on top of everything else?

Don’t try and waste my time until you are able to explain why your math is so terribly off even while disingenuously pretending like Cross Guild bounties are equivalent to WG ones. I don’t have eternity to waste on such nonsense.
You took like a week and couldn’t come up with anything better than “nuh uh. 5 =~ 15”

It’s also kinda ironic that someone like Soma just exposed he can’t do basic math either just because of his hate boner for the Admirals. It’s like actual brain rot!

:saden:
Yeah, you have no clue.

Again, point isn't that a Yonko Empire is exactly a match for the Navy. I was quite clear from early on that not even Whitebeard could defeat or even match the Navy. Whitebeard Pirates managed to hold on for a time, but they were heavily outmatched from the start.

Point is that Navy cannot afford to take on a Yonko Empire because it would take deploying two Admirals.

Most of the warlords don't even fight, so they are not very relevant for discussion. You cannot count on them.

So, if we take a weak Yonko crew:
Big Mom: 4,39 B
Katakuri: 1,06 B
Cracker: 0,86 B
Perospero: 0,7 B
Snack: 0,6 B
Daifuku: 0,3 B
Oven: 0,3 B
Mont d'Or: 0,12 B
Pekoms: 0,33 B
Tamago: 0,43 B
Bobbin: 0,11 B

And Cross Guild bounties:
Sakazuki: 3 B
Fujitora: 3 B
Kizaru: 3 B
Ryukogyu: 3 B

Yeah, Navy is far stronger even counting just the Admirals. But as I said: Emperor is well above an Admiral, so saying that Navy can match all four Emperors together is just dumb.

And yes, Navy also has more than just the Admirals. But Emperors also have more than their own crews.

So you have the situation where no Yonko wants to take on the Navy because they would get wiped out, but Navy does not want to take on a Yonko because it would leave it understrength elsewhere - and if all four Yonkos actually allied (e.g. due to Navy seriously trying to wipe them all out), Navy itself would in fact get wiped out. So it is better to leave them alone.

In the end:
If Admiral = Yonko, then you don't need two Admirals to ensure victory against a Yonko, just an Admiral + some Vice Admirals. We saw that Yonko Commander can stall another Yonko, and stronger Vice Admirals are not that much weaker.

But if Yonko is stronger than an Admiral, then you need two Admirals against a Yonko.

Stop acting like Admirals are the only strong fighters in the Navy.
Just to warn you. That guy has a very clear admiral agenda. He shamefully will argue even after proven wrong.
Oh, I noticed.
 
#98
"emperor is well above Admirals"

That's why Big meme Lost to Law and Kidd. :gokulaugh:
Yonkers are really the most pathetic fanbase in OP.
Big Mom lost to Law and Kidd.
Shanks stopped Akainu with one hand and Akainu didn't even to try to strike back even before Sengoku called war off.
Shanks had Ryokugyu run away simply with a long-distance Haki blast.
Luffy had Kizaru down after one good strike while he himself was basically shrugging off Kizaru's attacks. He only fell down due to his gear's time limit.

Do read the manga before commenting, please.
 
#99
Big Mom lost to Law and Kidd.
Shanks stopped Akainu with one hand and Akainu didn't even to try to strike back even before Sengoku called war off.
Shanks had Ryokugyu run away simply with a long-distance Haki blast.
Luffy had Kizaru down after one good strike while he himself was basically shrugging off Kizaru's attacks. He only fell down due to his gear's time limit.

Do read the manga before commenting, please.
Big meme got trashed by Brook, Franky, King, Robin and Jimbei. :milaugh:

Black beard shited himself against Kuzan, Ray and Akainu. No mention he barrely beat Law while he was backed by 4 of his crew members. :milaugh:

Kaido was multiple Time humiliated by samurais and momo :milaugh:
 
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