Chapter Discussion All problems of 1037

#61
That is what is "unrealistic" about it, Zoro was struggling and sometimes failing blocking with the swords in his hands, which should be significantly stronger than his mouth but was still able to block that with his mouth. Given equal training and hand strength, against a person on the same level as you, the mouth sword should be much weaker than your opponents hand swords (but it isn't).
Agree but still what situations Zoro was struggling with his hands and what he is using his mouth?
I only remember Zoro struggling against King's Sword and Named Attack(saying like that because there was too much variation) and he is only using his mouth to block punches.
Zoro using his mouth sword against someone hand sword is probably because Zoro was much stronger than him.

- That was the only unarmed attack he really did, so obviously it's exceptional no matter which kind of explanation you choose.

- adv Haohshoku does provide defense, lol. He really isn't clashing with the kanabo without the barrier. The Ragnarok almost looks like it but there's a ton of Haki drawn in general there.

- he's not saying a magical phrase that makes the move work or not. He's just saying random animal pun bullshit for its own sake, he can say whatever he wants. Don't lose sleep over the naming pattern lol

- there's relatively small rubble falling from a whole that was already there from an earlier chapter. Notice there isn't a huge piece of the skull that matches that shape.

- pulling back a huge foot is great because in One Piece physics obviously pulling back a heavier object would give a better recoil, meaning a harder kick. Also because the problem with hitting Kaido wasn't Luffy being too small or too weak (in Gear 2), it's a good feint. Kaido sees a giant foot which would be a wide guard, then it comes in and strikes him on a precise spot. They're called Gears, not levels; sometimes it's useful to downshift.
What kind of defense ACoC you are talking to? I know you can use it to block. But Luffy is taking fully hits. And again, he already lost 1v1 using ACoC. What is different now?

Do you even understood my question about Luffy's named attack? Oda does a pattern to differ attacks from G2, G3, G4 and now there is this Roc thing which seems to be ACoA but the other guy made a good thread about being G2+G3 and it seems we don't have special names for ACoC attacks. I'm just trying to understand this.

This is a good explanation about Luffy shrinking his G3 to faint Kaido. Too bad Kaido isn't even trying guard in order to block it.

4. i don't think so, the type of haki used shouldn't be a reason to change attack names

6. he cracked the dome making it unstable, so it could break at any moment.
4. I'm not saying if it should or not change the name. I'm just trying to understand what he is doing when he is using Roc attacks.

No they do not. The only difference is between Hakiless and Haki when luffy jumps between Gear forms.

Not sure why thats an issue though. You can see the difference in all of them:

- CoA: some black lightning
- AdvCoA: lots of Black Lightning
- AdvCoC: lots of black lighting and no contact hits
ACoC doesn't have no-contact hits when using swords against non-ACoC attacks/bodies. Zoro's ACoC on Kaido and King is touching them. Oden ACoC on Kaido is touching. Some people are claiming that some ACoC attacks of Kaido and Luffy also touched each other.

Red Roc on 1000 doesn't even have black lightning. How is that ACoA then?
 
#62
Agree but still what situations Zoro was struggling with his hands and what he is using his mouth?
I only remember Zoro struggling against King's Sword and Named Attack(saying like that because there was too much variation) and he is only using his mouth to block punches.
Zoro using his mouth sword against someone hand sword is probably because Zoro was much stronger than him.
36/72/108 pound cannon portrays the mouth sword as being on par in strength with the arm swords.
He only really needs santoryu to deal with relatively strong opponents, if the mouth sword was much weaker this wouldn't make sense.
 
#65
Who said he can't use acoa with g4?
Me. See some of my replies commenting on this.

36/72/108 pound cannon portrays the mouth sword as being on par in strength with the arm swords.
He only really needs santoryu to deal with relatively strong opponents, if the mouth sword was much weaker this wouldn't make sense.
You have a good point about Pound Cannon. Can't deny that.

But he using Santoryu against relatively strong opponents doesn't mean his mouth sword is as strong his arms swords. As I say it does help indeed but not necessarily to the point of pound cannon. For example Mr 1 is defeated by Ittoryu technique.
 
#66
1.Kaido's being drunk = being nerfed. Everybody who is drunk thinks to be stronger than it really is
Why try to go against what the manga states?
2. Kaido's haki > Luffy's haki. Yet Luffy is matching Kaido's attack in every clash that is not a headbutt.
Luffy said his Haki is getting stronger, which is why he got overpowered
3.Luffy tanking Kaidos attacks. What is the excuse here? No so far ago he went down after receiving 2 hits from him(1001 and 1009).
Unlike those chapters Luffy is not dodging/guarding against the attacks. I still believe a clean Thunder bagua will knock out luffy for a minute or 2.
4. Luffy's ACoC named attacks. Why is Oda calling it Roc? Roc used to be ACoA back at 1000. Isn't he using ACoC now? Should have a different name. Or he is combining both and ACoC will be nameless with no-touching effect?
Roc moves are simply a combination of G2 and G3. The fact that Oda showed a Roc move back in chapter without CoC 1000 should be enough to tell us that its not Haki based......Luffy simply infuses it with Haki (ACoA or ACoC)
5. Luffy and Kaido gattling clash. Luffy is visibly using ACoC no touching Kaido but Kaido actually touched Luffy. What is happening?
The difference between weapons and fist COC application. Kaido, Yamato and Zoro needs to touch their opponents...Luffy does not.
 
#67
Why try to go against what the manga states?



Luffy said his Haki is getting stronger, which is why he got overpowered


Unlike those chapters Luffy is not dodging/guarding against the attacks. I still believe a clean Thunder bagua will knock out luffy for a minute or 2.


Roc moves are simply a combination of G2 and G3. The fact that Oda showed a Roc move back in chapter without CoC 1000 should be enough to tell us that its not Haki based......Luffy simply infuses it with Haki (ACoA or ACoC)



The difference between weapons and fist COC application. Kaido, Yamato and Zoro needs to touch their opponents...Luffy does not.
Manga didn't stated that. Kaido did. And he is drunk we can't take serious what he is saying.

My translation says Kaido's haki is stronger, just that. Anyway Luffy is still matching his stronger haki somehow after that.

What is your point? Luffy dodging/blocking it better than tanking. He got a clean hit twice this chapter and more 2 last chapter. Isn't that enough? He doesn't even seem to be injuried by them.

Back at 1000 it was clear that Roc attacks were ACoA. Not it's not clear that and G2+G3 combination seems to explain it better.

Good point about weapons touching people and punches/kicks not. Weapons still has no touching effect when clashing each others but this still explain fully what is happening.
 
#68
  1. Kaido's being drunk = being nerfed. Everybody who is drunk thinks to be stronger than it really is
  2. Kaido's haki > Luffy's haki. Yet Luffy is matching Kaido's attack in every clash that is not a headbutt.
  3. Luffy tanking Kaidos attacks. What is the excuse here? No so far ago he went down after receiving 2 hits from him(1001 and 1009).
  4. Luffy's ACoC named attacks. Why is Oda calling it Roc? Roc used to be ACoA back at 1000. Isn't he using ACoC now? Should have a different name. Or he is combining both and ACoC will be nameless with no-touching effect?
  5. Luffy and Kaido gattling clash. Luffy is visibly using ACoC no touching Kaido but Kaido actually touched Luffy. What is happening?
  6. Kaido smashing Luffy making the floor to fall but Luffy somehow didn't. Really?
  7. Luffy's G3 Kick but then changed to normal size. Huh???
  8. Gorosei scared by a certain DF but not doing much about it at least until now. I think only Kaido's DF would be justify for them not acting. But if turns out to be Luffy's or Blackbeard's DF things will get ugly.
Luffy said Kaido's Haki "is getting stronger". I checked the Japanese myself. It's implied him being drunk is increasing his Haki.
 
#69
Luffy said Kaido's Haki "is getting stronger". I checked the Japanese myself. It's implied him being drunk is increasing his Haki.
What about that statement "If you lose" he says to Kaido about he using drunkness as excuse of losing the fight. He really said that? I see that as another problem to Luffy's character specially now that he is so confidence about winning.
 
#70
Agree but still what situations Zoro was struggling with his hands and what he is using his mouth?
I only remember Zoro struggling against King's Sword and Named Attack(saying like that because there was too much variation) and he is only using his mouth to block punches.
Zoro using his mouth sword against someone hand sword is probably because Zoro was much stronger than him.


What kind of defense ACoC you are talking to? I know you can use it to block. But Luffy is taking fully hits. And again, he already lost 1v1 using ACoC. What is different now?

Do you even understood my question about Luffy's named attack? Oda does a pattern to differ attacks from G2, G3, G4 and now there is this Roc thing which seems to be ACoA but the other guy made a good thread about being G2+G3 and it seems we don't have special names for ACoC attacks. I'm just trying to understand this.

This is a good explanation about Luffy shrinking his G3 to faint Kaido. Too bad Kaido isn't even trying guard in order to block it.
Luffy's leg is extended with a big foot and Kaido is smiling, then all of a sudden he takes Gear 2 to the stomach. That's WHY it's a feint lol, and it's clearly drawn to look faster/harder than the kick earlier on the chapter.

Luffy's using CoC to block. Show me a panel where he's directly hit like he was back in Kuri.

You're asking for a pattern but these are just random upgraded moves he calls Roc. If Luffy next does is called the Jumbo Kong Hand Banana... that's just what Oda wanted to call it lol. I mean you can pretty much expect variations on previous Gear 3 moves if you want, but by the time you feel like you get it he's just gonna shift gears and do more random shit
 
#71
Luffy's leg is extended with a big foot and Kaido is smiling, then all of a sudden he takes Gear 2 to the stomach. That's WHY it's a feint lol, and it's clearly drawn to look faster/harder than the kick earlier on the chapter.

Luffy's using CoC to block. Show me a panel where he's directly hit like he was back in Kuri.

You're asking for a pattern but these are just random upgraded moves he calls Roc. If Luffy next does is called the Jumbo Kong Hand Banana... that's just what Oda wanted to call it lol. I mean you can pretty much expect variations on previous Gear 3 moves if you want, but by the time you feel like you get it he's just gonna shift gears and do more random shit
Okay, now it makes sense the feint from Luffy.

This panel is good enough? Luffy tanking a directly hit.(Not sure if that shit will show up)


Oda has a pattern.

Haki + Fire = Red attacks

Elephant Gun + Thunder = Thor Elephant Gun

G2 Attacks = Jet

G3 Attacks used to be Gigant

Post-timeskip that pattern kind of lost. New G3 moves doesn't have Gigant on it and G4 moves are totally new despite Snakeman having Jet in some attacks.

But back with Roc, it seem to be a pattern either ACoA or G2 + G3.
 

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#75
I have to admit Kaido getting drunk like that was a bit odd notwithstanding the fact the festival has begun, but he was supposed to be more serious, maybe it means Luffy isn't damaging him enough...
 
#76
I can't agree with point number 1. The drunken fighting style has always been an ultimate fighting style in a lot of eastern fiction. why not one piece?
Not really... it is just seen as different martial arts...I would say it doesn't fit in the current scenario of one piece as something ultimate..... I mean it achieved nothing :kayneshrug:
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Luffy said Kaido's Haki "is getting stronger". I checked the Japanese myself. It's implied him being drunk is increasing his Haki.
I think that is when he was when getting sober...Angry Mode?
 
#77
Gorosei started remembering about Robin and how important it is to purge her. Like.... everyone knows she is part of SH...she was not hiding or anything...and not sure why they want to hide killing her when it's already known they put a bounty on her as a kid and everyone knows her as one of the worst criminals. :kayneshrug:
This also threw me off. They are the WG, they don't answer to anyone. Why would they need to hide they've killed someone! It's not like they are a secret cabal acting in the shadows.
 
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