Speculations Are Kaido and LinLin the true bosses of Wano?
- Thread starter nik87
- Start date
I define 'Boss' as the person one side needs to defeat to win the war.
On the alliance side you have Luffy & Momonosuke, King is wanting Momonosuke taken out to win against the samurai. The enemy side had Kaido & Orochi. Kaido took out Orochi which consolidated his power as the true enemy Boss.
Defeating Big Mom won't win Luffy the war, the same way defeating (Law, Kidd & Marco) won't win Kaido the war.
I highly doubt there'll be anymore reinforcements or a third enemy at this point with Onigashima floating. I suspect after this brief moment with Yamato, Momonosuke is going to declare the samurai fully ally themselves with Luffy & the strawhats. He is not the last surviving Kozuki, Hiyori is still alive. His survival shouldn't be a top priority for the alliance.
On the alliance side you have Luffy & Momonosuke, King is wanting Momonosuke taken out to win against the samurai. The enemy side had Kaido & Orochi. Kaido took out Orochi which consolidated his power as the true enemy Boss.
Defeating Big Mom won't win Luffy the war, the same way defeating (Law, Kidd & Marco) won't win Kaido the war.
I highly doubt there'll be anymore reinforcements or a third enemy at this point with Onigashima floating. I suspect after this brief moment with Yamato, Momonosuke is going to declare the samurai fully ally themselves with Luffy & the strawhats. He is not the last surviving Kozuki, Hiyori is still alive. His survival shouldn't be a top priority for the alliance.
Do you think Koi D.Uo and RinRin are the true bosses of the samurai arc? Or there is a hidden boss yet to be unlocked?
I know the main objection people will have to this idea is that "It is too much for the alliance to fight 3 top tiers".
However, that was said for Kaido alone and Oda threw RinRin on top of that. One more doesnt change a thing.
Oda's old comment about the boss of Wano hasnt really been spot on, the "Lurking Legend" doesnt fit Kaido nor RinRin.
The arc with most parallels to Wano is Thriller Bark and even there, a secret boss showed up after other two bosses were out.
Talking about Kuma who appeared after Oars and Moriah fell and the protagonist forces were at the end of their ropes.
There is also the unsolved issue of Yamata no Orochi, one of the oldest Japanese legends.
For now, that Devil Fruit resides into Orochi but it seems obvious that he cant do it justice, he simply is too weak and infitting.
However, if someone else devoured his body, the powers of the devil fruit would be transferred to the new user.
A lurking legend sounds like someone who is imprisoned or laying low and waiting for his chance to strike.
Perhaps, underneath Onigashima, that very individual is imprisoned since a long time, foreshadowed through Kawamatsus's imprisonment.
Once the Onigashima drops, the prison might shatter and set the lurking legend free who stumbles upon Orochi's body and obtains power.
A power perhaps greater than that of RinRin and even Kaido. Mythical Zoans are something else and we certainly didnt see Orochi's abilities.
The big question is who that lurking legend might be... It shouldn't be a completely unknown character since such lacks a build-up.
It could be Shiki the Golden Lion but movie keeps his chances low. Captain Rocks, if still alive, could be the lurking legend very fitting to this scenario.
A true resurrection of Rocks Pirates... Maybe it is someone else? Or it is just Kaido and RinRin?
What are your thoughts on this?
I know the main objection people will have to this idea is that "It is too much for the alliance to fight 3 top tiers".
However, that was said for Kaido alone and Oda threw RinRin on top of that. One more doesnt change a thing.
Oda's old comment about the boss of Wano hasnt really been spot on, the "Lurking Legend" doesnt fit Kaido nor RinRin.
The arc with most parallels to Wano is Thriller Bark and even there, a secret boss showed up after other two bosses were out.
Talking about Kuma who appeared after Oars and Moriah fell and the protagonist forces were at the end of their ropes.
There is also the unsolved issue of Yamata no Orochi, one of the oldest Japanese legends.
For now, that Devil Fruit resides into Orochi but it seems obvious that he cant do it justice, he simply is too weak and infitting.
However, if someone else devoured his body, the powers of the devil fruit would be transferred to the new user.
A lurking legend sounds like someone who is imprisoned or laying low and waiting for his chance to strike.
Perhaps, underneath Onigashima, that very individual is imprisoned since a long time, foreshadowed through Kawamatsus's imprisonment.
Once the Onigashima drops, the prison might shatter and set the lurking legend free who stumbles upon Orochi's body and obtains power.
A power perhaps greater than that of RinRin and even Kaido. Mythical Zoans are something else and we certainly didnt see Orochi's abilities.
The big question is who that lurking legend might be... It shouldn't be a completely unknown character since such lacks a build-up.
It could be Shiki the Golden Lion but movie keeps his chances low. Captain Rocks, if still alive, could be the lurking legend very fitting to this scenario.
A true resurrection of Rocks Pirates... Maybe it is someone else? Or it is just Kaido and RinRin?
What are your thoughts on this?
Not just because a general One Piece arc is formulaic, but because Oda has only used the "but wait, there's more!" twist literally thrice in the whole series: Thriller Bark arc (with Kuma) and Marineford arc (with BBP), so we knew that twist is more the exception than the rule. And both twist has been overshadowed by screen-time on page (Kuma appeared to lolstomp Perona and talked to Moria, while BBP said hello in Impel Down). That is to say, I doubt Oda will pull a Kishimoto (sorry, but I'm not sorry, to all Naruto fans out there).
I have heard about the lurking legend before, but I have nothing concrete to believe s/he will appear in Wano at all (or at least in Act 4). For all we know, s/he will appear in Act 5 for the usual post-major arc world building to keep us hyped for what may well be the second to last One Piece Saga (which I dubbed the Laugh Tale Saga).
From a storyline viewpoint, I believe that Kaido & BM being the ultimate challenge this arc (and, by extension, this saga) has been cemented by no other than Sengoku himself. A former Marine Fleet Admiral blatantly admitting that the combined might of Kaido & BM is something that not even Roger (who surrendered himself to the Marines) or Primebeard (who WG had to wait until he became old and sick to kill) could have soloed.
This is the moment where the combined might of The Worst Generation surpassed Roger or Primebeard. They do not have the advantage of BM or Kaido willfully surrendering or becoming frail and sick. This is a make or break moment for them. And we all know for sure, although the challenge is on cosmic scale, they cannot afford to lose.
Even if they have help from an admiral and/or marines along the way, this saga ends with Luffy & Zoro triumphant over BM & Kaido. :cheers:
Maybe I have worded it badly... I should have said an additional boss instead of the true boss...
It's true that KoiDUo and RinRin are central figures of the arc and cannot be overshadowed even if 3rd antagonist does show up in the end. That individual also doesnt have to be stronger than either of them, just needs to be strong enough.
The protagonist side will be in no shape to fight a fresh opponent after dealing with the two Emperors so even if that additional boss that shows up at the end is the weakest top tier ever, they will be in no shape to deal with him... However, perhaps the protagonist side receives unexpected help, someone who would take on that extra boss for them...
We are way too focused on the Emperors and feeling "safe" with the status quo and it is typical for Oda to pull something like additional boss nobody saw coming(well, almost nobody
) to blow everyone's minds. The legend of Koi that became a dragon is nice and good but the slaying of Yamata no Orochi is a greater Japanese legend.
The Hebi Hebi No Mi: model Yamata No Orochi doesnt have to challenge Kaido's fruit in power or durability, it can be annoying on it's own way with superior regeneration, the slain heads regrowing, for example... And I totally see taking on a larger size than what we saw from Orochi. When the old lady handed the DF to her descendant she said: "...in return, I will give you power." **panel showing the DF** It struck me odd from day one...
It's true that KoiDUo and RinRin are central figures of the arc and cannot be overshadowed even if 3rd antagonist does show up in the end. That individual also doesnt have to be stronger than either of them, just needs to be strong enough.
The protagonist side will be in no shape to fight a fresh opponent after dealing with the two Emperors so even if that additional boss that shows up at the end is the weakest top tier ever, they will be in no shape to deal with him... However, perhaps the protagonist side receives unexpected help, someone who would take on that extra boss for them...
We are way too focused on the Emperors and feeling "safe" with the status quo and it is typical for Oda to pull something like additional boss nobody saw coming(well, almost nobody
) to blow everyone's minds. The legend of Koi that became a dragon is nice and good but the slaying of Yamata no Orochi is a greater Japanese legend.The Hebi Hebi No Mi: model Yamata No Orochi doesnt have to challenge Kaido's fruit in power or durability, it can be annoying on it's own way with superior regeneration, the slain heads regrowing, for example... And I totally see taking on a larger size than what we saw from Orochi. When the old lady handed the DF to her descendant she said: "...in return, I will give you power." **panel showing the DF** It struck me odd from day one...
Nik is finally on Mythical Hebi Hebi Df hype. It sounded downplaying when some fans said Zoro will cut Orochii along with beating King or Kyoshiro before to some Z fans.
Honestly i agree, Oda introduced a Mythical Zoan and give it Orochii, it has to have some reason. So it wouldn't be surprised if it back in the mix but i also don't see someone else consuming it this arc and raising to Kaidou/BM level.
The df could either be brought back in the form of Orochii or in future, maybe One of BB Titan commanders consuming it.
In former case, many fans speculated Orochi df each head having different personalities. What if Coward Orochii head is cut off, and now another personality takes over. Then we can see a ruthless formidable Mythical many head Zoan in Wano Capital.
It's just that i dropped it when Red Scabbards were able to hurt Kaidou, in such a scenario i see Zoro only performing better than them and Reopening /making another cut on Kaidou. So Orochii back in the mix won't add much to the story, he likely gonna get rekt by Kaidou for when he challenges him for betraying him.
Honestly i agree, Oda introduced a Mythical Zoan and give it Orochii, it has to have some reason. So it wouldn't be surprised if it back in the mix but i also don't see someone else consuming it this arc and raising to Kaidou/BM level.
The df could either be brought back in the form of Orochii or in future, maybe One of BB Titan commanders consuming it.
In former case, many fans speculated Orochi df each head having different personalities. What if Coward Orochii head is cut off, and now another personality takes over. Then we can see a ruthless formidable Mythical many head Zoan in Wano Capital.
It's just that i dropped it when Red Scabbards were able to hurt Kaidou, in such a scenario i see Zoro only performing better than them and Reopening /making another cut on Kaidou. So Orochii back in the mix won't add much to the story, he likely gonna get rekt by Kaidou for when he challenges him for betraying him.
Do you think Koi D.Uo and RinRin are the true bosses of the samurai arc? Or there is a hidden boss yet to be unlocked?
I know the main objection people will have to this idea is that "It is too much for the alliance to fight 3 top tiers".
However, that was said for Kaido alone and Oda threw RinRin on top of that. One more doesnt change a thing.
Oda's old comment about the boss of Wano hasnt really been spot on, the "Lurking Legend" doesnt fit Kaido nor RinRin.
The arc with most parallels to Wano is Thriller Bark and even there, a secret boss showed up after other two bosses were out.
Talking about Kuma who appeared after Oars and Moriah fell and the protagonist forces were at the end of their ropes.
There is also the unsolved issue of Yamata no Orochi, one of the oldest Japanese legends.
For now, that Devil Fruit resides into Orochi but it seems obvious that he cant do it justice, he simply is too weak and infitting.
However, if someone else devoured his body, the powers of the devil fruit would be transferred to the new user.
A lurking legend sounds like someone who is imprisoned or laying low and waiting for his chance to strike.
Perhaps, underneath Onigashima, that very individual is imprisoned since a long time, foreshadowed through Kawamatsus's imprisonment.
Once the Onigashima drops, the prison might shatter and set the lurking legend free who stumbles upon Orochi's body and obtains power.
A power perhaps greater than that of RinRin and even Kaido. Mythical Zoans are something else and we certainly didnt see Orochi's abilities.
The big question is who that lurking legend might be... It shouldn't be a completely unknown character since such lacks a build-up.
It could be Shiki the Golden Lion but movie keeps his chances low. Captain Rocks, if still alive, could be the lurking legend very fitting to this scenario.
A true resurrection of Rocks Pirates... Maybe it is someone else? Or it is just Kaido and RinRin?
What are your thoughts on this?
I know the main objection people will have to this idea is that "It is too much for the alliance to fight 3 top tiers".
However, that was said for Kaido alone and Oda threw RinRin on top of that. One more doesnt change a thing.
Oda's old comment about the boss of Wano hasnt really been spot on, the "Lurking Legend" doesnt fit Kaido nor RinRin.
The arc with most parallels to Wano is Thriller Bark and even there, a secret boss showed up after other two bosses were out.
Talking about Kuma who appeared after Oars and Moriah fell and the protagonist forces were at the end of their ropes.
There is also the unsolved issue of Yamata no Orochi, one of the oldest Japanese legends.
For now, that Devil Fruit resides into Orochi but it seems obvious that he cant do it justice, he simply is too weak and infitting.
However, if someone else devoured his body, the powers of the devil fruit would be transferred to the new user.
A lurking legend sounds like someone who is imprisoned or laying low and waiting for his chance to strike.
Perhaps, underneath Onigashima, that very individual is imprisoned since a long time, foreshadowed through Kawamatsus's imprisonment.
Once the Onigashima drops, the prison might shatter and set the lurking legend free who stumbles upon Orochi's body and obtains power.
A power perhaps greater than that of RinRin and even Kaido. Mythical Zoans are something else and we certainly didnt see Orochi's abilities.
The big question is who that lurking legend might be... It shouldn't be a completely unknown character since such lacks a build-up.
It could be Shiki the Golden Lion but movie keeps his chances low. Captain Rocks, if still alive, could be the lurking legend very fitting to this scenario.
A true resurrection of Rocks Pirates... Maybe it is someone else? Or it is just Kaido and RinRin?
What are your thoughts on this?
The fruit itself always had the hype but the issue was the user of it.
Even if the fruit has the hax regeneration, Orochi himself cannot be a threat to anyone decently strong.
If personality change turns things 180°, sure, why not... But, honestly, cant see it happen...
One thing I am fairly certain off is that we wont see Kaido's DF reused on another character whether if it's Blackbeard himself or someone else. Uo Uo no Mi is getting a full display of capabilities here in Wano while Yamata No Orochi had close to zero focus.
However, the fruit is too weird, I cant even imagine an 8-headed hybrid form... It wont appear on Blackbeard, imo.
One of the titanic captains could be an option but the legend is tied too much to Japan(Wano) so, imo, it has to happen in the current arc. I mentioned Shiki in the opening post but he is impossible since he already has a DF, at least in the movie.
Rocks could indeed be imprisoned somewhere underneath Onigashima and gets freed when the island is dropped and what a coincidence, Orochi's body with special fruit inside is right there for the grabbing...
Would be a good way to make Marineford look cute, just like he promised, no?
Even if the fruit has the hax regeneration, Orochi himself cannot be a threat to anyone decently strong.
If personality change turns things 180°, sure, why not... But, honestly, cant see it happen...
One thing I am fairly certain off is that we wont see Kaido's DF reused on another character whether if it's Blackbeard himself or someone else. Uo Uo no Mi is getting a full display of capabilities here in Wano while Yamata No Orochi had close to zero focus.
However, the fruit is too weird, I cant even imagine an 8-headed hybrid form... It wont appear on Blackbeard, imo.
One of the titanic captains could be an option but the legend is tied too much to Japan(Wano) so, imo, it has to happen in the current arc. I mentioned Shiki in the opening post but he is impossible since he already has a DF, at least in the movie.
Rocks could indeed be imprisoned somewhere underneath Onigashima and gets freed when the island is dropped and what a coincidence, Orochi's body with special fruit inside is right there for the grabbing...
Would be a good way to make Marineford look cute, just like he promised, no?
It would be awesome to see that !
But who could take him ? BM and Kaido are already hard to face + another one but it's so Oda-ish at the same time ...
It could work if Marco stalemates BM until the end so that means BM won't fall, Kaido weakened by all SN and killed by Zoro and the "lurking legend " beaten by Luffy. Maybe marco could regen luffy and others SN before fighting the lurking legend :zorothink:
But who could take him ? BM and Kaido are already hard to face + another one but it's so Oda-ish at the same time ...
It could work if Marco stalemates BM until the end so that means BM won't fall, Kaido weakened by all SN and killed by Zoro and the "lurking legend " beaten by Luffy. Maybe marco could regen luffy and others SN before fighting the lurking legend :zorothink:
The fruit itself always had the hype but the issue was the user of it.
Even if the fruit has the hax regeneration, Orochi himself cannot be a threat to anyone decently strong.
If personality change turns things 180°, sure, why not... But, honestly, cant see it happen...
One thing I am fairly certain off is that we wont see Kaido's DF reused on another character whether if it's Blackbeard himself or someone else. Uo Uo no Mi is getting a full display of capabilities here in Wano while Yamata No Orochi had close to zero focus.
However, the fruit is too weird, I cant even imagine an 8-headed hybrid form... It wont appear on Blackbeard, imo.
One of the titanic captains could be an option but the legend is tied too much to Japan(Wano) so, imo, it has to happen in the current arc. I mentioned Shiki in the opening post but he is impossible since he already has a DF, at least in the movie.
Rocks could indeed be imprisoned somewhere underneath Onigashima and gets freed when the island is dropped and what a coincidence, Orochi's body with special fruit inside is right there for the grabbing...
Would be a good way to make Marineford look cute, just like he promised, no?
Even if the fruit has the hax regeneration, Orochi himself cannot be a threat to anyone decently strong.
If personality change turns things 180°, sure, why not... But, honestly, cant see it happen...
One thing I am fairly certain off is that we wont see Kaido's DF reused on another character whether if it's Blackbeard himself or someone else. Uo Uo no Mi is getting a full display of capabilities here in Wano while Yamata No Orochi had close to zero focus.
However, the fruit is too weird, I cant even imagine an 8-headed hybrid form... It wont appear on Blackbeard, imo.
One of the titanic captains could be an option but the legend is tied too much to Japan(Wano) so, imo, it has to happen in the current arc. I mentioned Shiki in the opening post but he is impossible since he already has a DF, at least in the movie.
Rocks could indeed be imprisoned somewhere underneath Onigashima and gets freed when the island is dropped and what a coincidence, Orochi's body with special fruit inside is right there for the grabbing...
Would be a good way to make Marineford look cute, just like he promised, no?