Future Events Baited by Spoilers: Karyuudon vs ZKK

[Malio]

Anti-ZKK bros anytime ZKK gets hinted at

 

[Finalbeta]

Karyudon didn't manage shit against Zoro, King is destined to lose.

 

[Kiiro]

what does ZKK mean?

 

[Zara]

ZKK will happen.

 

[Finalbeta]

what does ZKK mean?

Zoro Kills Kaido :cheers:

 

[GreenEggsAHam]

But you aren't strong enough you couldn't even open an old scar

Kaido isn't going to let them. He already said he could've let the scabbards kill him thats enough said.
ZKK isn't will never be special.

Yamato outright said he's weakened he can't even fully control his flame clouds right now

Of course Kaido's weaken, stamina wise. Just as much as luffy who got ko'ed several times.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

We need Kaido to acknowledge that there still exists a monster samurai on par with Oden.

he did this when Luffy smacked him with red roc

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2021

Anyways I just can't help but feel like the ZKK theory has been more or less dealt the jugular

As was stated several chapters ago, the WG has a giant fleet heading to wano, which basically removes the necessity for kaido to be killed, as if he is defeated, marines will storm wano and kaido will be arrested.

Zoro slayed a "dragon" and defeated king above the skies of the flower capital. This is what everyone said he would do to kaido. Rather, it appears that King was the one who will make zoro a legend, which makes sense given how King is portrayed to be effectively invincible(unless you have ACoC). King is a lunarian, a god, and zoro defeated him. Zoro defeated a god, making him the new sword god.

Ushimaru was confirmed to not be Zoro's dad by Oda.

Literally every single character is counting on Luffy to beat kaido, zoro included. Plus zoro has his timelimit, if what happened to sanji was any indicator this chapter, Zoro's probably going to expire in 1036.

Personally, I don't care if ZKK happens, but I find it hard to see how it could happen. Especially when Oda already drew zoro slaying a dragon. Why would he draw two similar scenes this arc?

 

[Finalbeta]

Kaido isn't going to let them. He already said he could've let the scabbards kill him thats enough said.
ZKK isn't will never be special.

Of course Kaido's weaken, stamina wise. Just as much as luffy who got ko'ed several times.

 

[The White Crane]

he did this when Luffy smacked him with red roc

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2021

Anyways I just can't help but feel like the ZKK theory has been more or less dealt the jugular

As was stated several chapters ago, the WG has a giant fleet heading to wano, which basically removes the necessity for kaido to be killed, as if he is defeated, marines will storm wano and kaido will be arrested.

Zoro slayed a "dragon" and defeated king above the skies of the flower capital. This is what everyone said he would do to kaido. Rather, it appears that King was the one who will make zoro a legend, which makes sense given how King is portrayed to be effectively invincible(unless you have ACoC). King is a lunarian, a god, and zoro defeated him. Zoro defeated a god, making him the new sword god.

Ushimaru was confirmed to not be Zoro's dad by Oda.

Literally every single character is counting on Luffy to beat kaido, zoro included. Plus zoro has his timelimit, if what happened to sanji was any indicator this chapter, Zoro's probably going to expire in 1036.

Personally, I don't care if ZKK happens, but I find it hard to see how it could happen. Especially when Oda already drew zoro slaying a dragon. Why would he draw two similar scenes this arc?

Damn! WG will arrest Kaido, Wano will be grateful and willingly become part of WG, then?

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

The samurai part was actually new to me. Goated thread as usual @Den_Den_Mushi :cheers:

 

[Halyup]

Zoro is a descendant of Ryuma and still will not kill Kaido.
We didnt have 10 openings showing Luffy vs Kaido, for Zoro to kill him.

Lmao this mf is scared

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2021

The absolute cope from Zolo boys is hilarious

THAT was your ZKK moment a magma dragon


Would be cringe for Oda to try force Zoro do the exact same post, attack and damage Ryuma did when Zolo clearly did that this chapter.

This chapter:

Zoro used a variant of the same move Ryuma did Ryuma was a 1 sword specialist and Zoro is a 3 sword specialist meaning that was 3 sword style to that 1 style move which is Zoro's strongest version.

Zoro did the exact same post as Ryuma angle and everything.

Chopped a dragons head.

Oda isn't going to rehash the exact same scene.

ZKK cults on suicide watch after this chapter

Only ones copin are Condom stans

 

[Reborn]

Let me sum up the arguments

Arguments by Z Bois
​

Kaido looking for samurai like Oden (Luffy is not that samurai for sure)

Ryuma legacy and parallels cutting dragon with one hand sword (Zoro also fired slash at Kaido with one hand which kaido dodged)

Foreshadowing - Kaido feels Killing himself is difficult, taking Kaido's head talk between Zoro and Samurais and Zoro wanted to cut him into pieces (not defeat him)

Emma

Zoro's past links with samurais

Counter Arguments
​

1)He is Luffy's opponent

2)Zoro has done enough

3) Delusional Zoro fans and their stupid wank

 

[Halyup]

Let me sum up the arguments

Arguments by Z Bois
​

Kaido looking for samurai like Oden (Luffy is not that samurai for sure)

Ryuma legacy and parallels cutting dragon with one hand sword (Zoro also fired slash at Kaido with one hand which kaido dodged)

Foreshadowing - Kaido feels Killing himself is difficult, taking Kaido's head talk between Zoro and Samurais and Zoro wanted to cut him into pieces (not defeat him)

Emma

Zoro's past links with samurais

Counter Arguments
​

1)He is Luffy's opponent

2)Zoro has done enough

3) Delusional Zoro fans and their stupid wank

See they cant formulate a decent counterargument without using adhominems lol

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

What i feel is Kaido has to die this arc because Oda is planning for endgame after wano. So having character like kaido who has insane durability and AP , his connection to underworld and World Govt is too much at this point .


I can possibly see it happening however Zoro is not resident of wano unlike ryuma so it would be weird how wano people will never know his real name and the one ends up killing is outsider .

Momonusuke makes more sense in killing kaido thats why he was turned into adult . He has more connection to kaido overall and getting killed by person who berated him as weak would just humiliate him.

Only con is Momo lacks killing intent so far Zoro, Kidd ,killer and Law all have it in them. Ya i think ZKK is one of the possibility completely ruling it out seems foolish now.

 

[Franosuke]

We need Kaido to acknowledge that there still exists a monster samurai on par with Oden. This is a massive, massive plot point and the culmination of the samurai faction's arc, for Kaido to admit that despite his best efforts to stifle and disarm them, that great samurai will continue to rise. Kaido did not witness Zoro's fight with King and pretty much underestimated him all the way until he unleashed Ashura for the first time. Yet Kaido once again turned his attention away from Zoro, and did not see a link between Zoro and the way of the samurai he claims to love. With the Shimotsuki plotline still hanging, there is still time for Zoro to discover that he is, indeed a samurai by blood and re-challenge Kaido to prove him wrong. If Zoro does not prove him wrong, then Kaido, the villain, would be right in his assessment of the samurai. And we can't have that.

I love this part so much. Well fucking done.

Also, another thing I was thinking about:

What was the point of Zoro killing the Punk Hazard dragon if not a massive foreshadowing? I might have to go back and read that, but I'm pretty sure that dragon served no actual purpose to the plot of Punk Hazard besides holding Kinemon's legs. They could've found Kinemon's body anywhere, but Oda had to put a fucking dragon there? Am I supposed to believe that Zoro killing that dragon was a foreshadow for Zoro defeating King? That makes no sense. Even being a Lunarian, it makes no sense for King to receive that kind of narrative importance based on his relevance in this arc.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

So 1035 is out and once again, people jumped the gun on the spoilers, believing the provider that said Zoro's finisher looked almost exactly like Ryuma's in Monster. Well, no. That was bait. I'm here to examine some of the dragonslaying material we've received, both in and out of canon and it will become painfully obvious that Zoro vs Karyuudon is not the legend we were promised.

First, let's look at the comparison between Zoro, Ryuuma and Karyuudon.

Spoiler

Zoro and Ryuma very clearly decapitated the dragon, with the emphasis on the head flying away from the body, accompanied by a spray of blood effect.

Spoiler: Karyuudon

This is clearly not a decapitation. It's a bisection. Zoro obviously cut the dragon lengthwise.

The spoiler provider also baited the community by stating that Zoro's finisher was a three sword version of Hiryuu Kaen, the attack that Kaido dodged earlier. That... is a massive reach. We don't actually know what Hiryuu Kaen looks like post timeskip, and Hiryuu Kaen is specifically a one-sword technique so a three-sword version of it would be... something else entirely. Not the same technique at all.

Members @Cinera and @KiriNigiri have done a better job of explaining this, so I'll only touch on this matter briefly, but dragons are seen as a symbol of established authority, a la the Celestial Dragons. Zoro is represented by a Tiger, symbolising a young upstart trying to take the throne from the old guard and rebuild the world anew. This idea was rehashed in the chapter here:

Spoiler

We were promised a new dragonslaying legend, with much emphasis placed on replicating Ryuuma's dragonslaying legend from long ago:

Spoiler

One Piece Magazine specifically depicts the decapitation from Punk Hazard. Which makes sense, seeing as that scene was the first homage to Ryuuma. I've already shown how Zoro cutting Karyuudon was not a decapitation, so where is the second Ryuuma homage, in which Zoro beheads an Eastern dragon instead?

For those of you who do not know, or simply enjoy lumping all Zoro fans together as a hive mind, I have been historically conservative with predicting ZKK. In Cinera's thread, I gave it a 60% chance, and I still stand by my rating. I have doubts about Oda having Zoro kill a person on-panel in such a gruesome way, but it's also very hard to refute the mountain of evidence that points to Kaido's death. I don't assign ZKK the highest probability of happening, but I think 1035 is far too premature to dismiss the theory either, particularly since we still have this massive plot point left unresolved:

Spoiler

We need Kaido to acknowledge that there still exists a monster samurai on par with Oden. This is a massive, massive plot point and the culmination of the samurai faction's arc, for Kaido to admit that despite his best efforts to stifle and disarm them, that great samurai will continue to rise. Kaido did not witness Zoro's fight with King and pretty much underestimated him all the way until he unleashed Ashura for the first time. Yet Kaido once again turned his attention away from Zoro, and did not see a link between Zoro and the way of the samurai he claims to love. With the Shimotsuki plotline still hanging, there is still time for Zoro to discover that he is, indeed a samurai by blood and re-challenge Kaido to prove him wrong. If Zoro does not prove him wrong, then Kaido, the villain, would be right in his assessment of the samurai. And we can't have that.

I will leave you with the last panel, where Zoro's finisher is called Jingoku, a word that evokes the samurai. Knowing Oda, this is almost certainly pointing towards Zoro formally acknowledging himself as one of them. Now where to from here? To which character would it be most relevant that Zoro considers himself a samurai? That's for you to decide.

Spoiler

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Nice compilation lets see how it goes. If the kill happens both luffy and Zoro will kill kaido together. Oda likes luffy to much and he will hesitate to make Zoro doing better than luffy .

In past he tried to avoid doing that fearing other characters overshadowing mc thats why Laws role got less after dressrossa .

 

[Franosuke]

Nice compilation lets see how it goes. If the kill happens both luffy and Zoro will kill kaido together. Oda likes luffy to much and he will hesitate to make Zoro doing better than luffy .

In past he tried avoiding doing that fearing other characters overshadowing mc thats why Laws role got less after dressrossa .

Yeah this is also a big problem. If Luffy had a history of not always being the one to finally defeat the main villain I think way, way more people would believe in ZKK. Because the points brought up in this thread are really staring you in the face if you dig even a little bit into the narratives surrounding Wano. And I don't know how you can make ZKK happen without Zoro outshining Luffy and without Zoro not looking bad by cheap-shotting Kaido. It seems like it would be one or the other and I can't think of how Oda would do it unless about 10 different things specifically hapen

That said, I really would be disappointed if Oda did not figure out a way to resolve the plot points brought up in this thread, ZKK or not

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Yeah this is also a big problem. If Luffy had a history of not always being the one to finally defeat the main villain I think way, way more people would believe in ZKK. Because the points brought up in this thread are really staring you in the face if you dig even a little bit into the narratives surrounding Wano. And I don't know how you can make ZKK happen without Zoro outshining Luffy and without Zoro not looking bad by cheap-shotting Kaido. It seems like it would be one or the other and I can't think of how Oda would do it unless about 10 different things specifically hapen

That said, I really would be disappointed if Oda did not figure out a way to resolve the plot points brought up in this thread, ZKK or not

Luffy does not have killing intent that will be an issue.

Even Roger killed people . If Zoro does outshine him Luffy fans should admit defeat he is worthless mcs just there to call "i will be pirate king ".

There are rare instance side characters outshine the MC like Gohan killing Cell are one of the few moments . It can happen ruling it out is a foolish i guess.

 

[Franosuke]

Luffy does not have killing intent that will be an issue.

Even Roger killed people . If Zoro does outshine him Luffy fans should admit defeat he is worthless mcs just there to call i am pirate king .

There are rare instance side characters outshine the MC like Gohan killing Cell are one of the few moments . It can happen ruling it out is a foolish i guess.

Yeah. I mean I know there are obviously exceptions but what I meant was more like it's not something Oda specifically has really done before. Unless you count Zoro defeating Axe-Hand Morgan or whatever his name was.

Even if ZKK doesn't happen, I still do expect Zoro to get another shot at Kaido where Kaido acknowledges him as stronger than Oden, even if Luffy defeats him in the end. Because if the whole samurai plotline doesn't get resolved that would be stupid, especially because Kaido saying there would never be another samurai like him is something that has to be addressed.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Yeah. I mean I know there are obviously exceptions but what I meant was more like it's not something Oda specifically has really done before. Unless you count Zoro defeating Axe-Hand Morgan or whatever his name was.

Even if ZKK doesn't happen, I still do expect Zoro to get another shot at Kaido where Kaido acknowledges him as stronger than Oden, even if Luffy defeats him in the end. Because if the whole samurai plotline doesn't get resolved that would be stupid, especially because Kaido saying there would never be another samurai like him is something that has to be addressed.

I d say kidd would make decent candidate he would be darker version of luffy that would make the rivalry more merrier. Seems like he will defeat big mom and i dont see her dying eitherway .

I saw that panel Kaido's acknowledgement stuff but i think he kind of acknowledged him in rooftop already hurting him using onigiri. The attacks on rooftop are stronger than what oden did thats why kaido had to use hybrid at last resort.