Best Written Kingdom Characters?

[Owl Ki]

Houken might be able to actually. He tore into Kyou’s 2,000 man bodyguard unit and slayed Kyou herself single-hangedly. Kyou’s bodyguards were also not giving him any real trouble and he was dealing with them by the dozens quite easily.

Houken also easily and overwhelmingly slaughtered Gekishin’s Quanrong troops by the dozens, so severely that they actually stopped trying to fight him out of fear. The fucking Quanrong who are known for their brutality and savage strength, were scared of Houken with no backup. Lol

Houken’s power level has also been criticized, but the thing with Houken is that the story acknowledges how powerful Houken is. Like he goes straight from being ranked beneath a foot soldier of Zhao to being a Great Heaven solely because of his fighting prowess. Hara doesn’t fuck around with Houken you know? He makes him a Great General straight up in spite of the fact that he has no military knowledge or leadership training to speak of. Zhao recognizes his terrifying power when this literal random hobo shows up and starts killing top tier Great Generals of other states.

With Kyoukai, Hara made her practically as broken as Houken, but is then forced to sideline her because she is so broken that she ruins the tension in the story.

Hara uses Houken’s power to massively build him up as a threat and opposing force to Shin and co.,

Meanwhile Hara made Kyoukai almost as strong as Houken for no reason other than unashamed fanservice, and then sidelines her because she is literally too powerful for the manga to be enjoyable with her actually accomplishing as much as she is capable of.

Even then it was made clear that Houken was still within the realm of Kingdom's upper limits from the get go since Ouki defeated him in the past and his strength was deconstructed throughout the story. It was made clear that despite how utterly monstrous this man was, he was still ultimately a man.

He also wasn't a strategical genius on top of being super strong.

Kyoukai though? Nah, she only ever gets dicked on by chance and circumstances because something has to take her out of the story long enough for there to be tension.

 

[Lhulu]

I need to reread Kingdom before leaving any decent analysis but let me try it now.

Kyoukai lacks 2 main aspects:
1. A personal justification about her strenght.
2. The character's establishment within the war

About the first point, I'm not talking about a plot reason like why her ability is so strong or how it works(because we'll enter the supernatural territory here).
Instead, what's Kyoukai's motif to fight? What makes her burn her soul and surpass the human limits?

We saw with Moubu that strong characters carries a weight in their backs. It can be passion, a desire for revenge, a great responsability, even a child's dream, as long you put that above everything and everyone. The heavier the weight, the bigger will be your back(here we have every great general)

Now ask you guys, Kyoukai has anything close to that? No. The clan shiyuu stuff serves as a construction to her personal arc, however she never treated that power as a priority, it was a simple matter of live, there were no truly desire for power and strenght.
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung the reason why Yo tan Wa and Karin works well it's because they have important things to protect and fight for... people, culture, a kingdom... Kyoukai lacks that.


About the second point, imo that's her biggest problem. Kyoukai is an assassin and a majority of her construction is built on that idea, however right now, she's a commander and supposes to aim A General position.
Unfortunaly, Hara forgot to write one thing: What she thinks about wars and why she wants to rise in hierarchy.

Right now, I'm not even sure if we can call her a character during the battles. Most of times, she looks more like a plot-tool(here enters the tatic problems and broken abilities mentioned before) or an extensions of Shin's character(serving as a strategist and strong fighter at same time). Again, here we have the lack of any substancial motivation to join a war. Would be alright if her reasioning was only the friendship with Hi Shin army, however when you have an objective like becoming a General, it makes Shin's dream looks cheap.

If Hara is trying to turn Kyoukai into a new Kyou, I don't think he's doing a good job.
Let's see if she will be treat better in the future.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

I would’ve preferred it if Hara would’ve shown Kyoukai killing some of Kaishibou’s troops, but then after cutting away, Kaishibou’s elites would’ve showed up at Mougou’s HQ anyway. Like his troops would’ve destroyed what remained of the HSU (which I think they did in canon anyway), but would’ve continued riding towards Mougou’s HQ instead of staying behind to try and slay the one invincible Shiyuu that was about to pass out anyway.

This way Kyoukai would’ve looked far less broken. She would’ve had her badass moment of slaying some elite warriors while wounded, but wouldn’t have looked like a literal unstoppable one-man army. And Kaishibou’s elite troops making it to Mougou’s HQ would’ve likely not changed the outcome of the arc anyway, as Renpa would’ve still surrendered since the presences of an extra 500ish troops would not have changed Renpa’s reason for surrendering.

All Hara had to do was not have Kyoukai eat an entire army by herself but he hardcore shat the bed here.



The problem is that no traditional Generals stand a chance at competing with her due to the nature of her fighting style. The only generals we’ve met who could’ve competed with Kai’s martial arts were Houken and Gakuhaku Kou. I’m very surprised GHK didn’t square up against Kyoukai actually. It pains me to say but warriors like Bananji and Gyou’Un would get rolled over by Kyoukai and killed pretty quickly. Even the recently introduced Jiaga who seems extremely strong would likely have no answer to Kyoukai’s broken fighting method.

It takes an extremely unique type of warrior to give Kyoukai an interesting fight, and the more of these characters Hara introduces, the less unique they become.

I guess that would be a better scenario for the battle of Sanyou. And I agreed about Kyoukai would wipe the floors with any enemies unless Hara pull another Houken.

Don't give me the strong women crap. There are well written, strong female Generals in this manga like Yotanwa and Karin that don't break the in-verse logic scale.

The problem with Kyoukai isn't that she is strong, it is that she is so stupidly strong that she is downright capable of stuff that not even Top Tiers in their prime can accomplish.

Ouki, Renpa, Moubu, Yotanwa, anyone else, none of these folk can simply singlehandedly demolish an entire elite unit by themselves, they need their own unit to back them up. Sure they will do the lion's share of the work but they still need some backup, they aren't going to solo a whole elite unit by themselves.

Shadows my arse, she is the second smartest person in the team, the strongest fighter and a stellar team player since the start because God forbid this character have a single flaw or weakness.

The Revenge Arc was another dumb arse moment.

So we get pulled out of interesting wars, politics and stuff for this generic revenge arc? Ok, change of pace, fine, it's not too long, I don't mind.

So her revelation is that bonds of friendship are important.

No problems here.

So she goes back to her unit because bonds.

Nice.

Then she announces out of the blue that she suddenly wants to be a Great General which would inevitably tear her away from the HSU.

What?

WHAT??????

This is almost as dumb as that time she said "We are not invaders, we are the Hi Shin Unit!".

Now that is singlehandedly the dumbest moment in this manga.

I don't mind her being strategically competent.

I mind her being smarter than full blown strategists that have studied in professional military schools, some of which were tutored by military geniuses like Shouheikan. This also undermines Shin because both of these characters didn't have access to professional military schools but Kai not only manages despite what should be a disadvantage, she straight up excels.

I love Kingdom, I really do and I adore the character cast but I cannot help but notice how the quality takes a hit every single time that there is a focus on either Kai or the Shiyuu in general. It is like both of these things walked out of a different manga and accidentally ended up in Kingdom.

In a world where assassins are generally above average folk that dick on unarmed politicians, the Shiyuu produce super duper uber soldiers.

In a world where strong warriors lead their trusted subordinates to battle and fight together to achieve victory, Kai can just casually swallow elite units whole.

In a world where the supernatural is something that people see in the corner of their eye, hearing the faintest phantom whisper in their ear only to pass it of as their imagination, Kyoukai resurrects a dead man.

In world that is a canvas where nearly every character is a delicate stroke of the finest paint brush, Kai is a yard brush. There is no subtlety with this character.

I would actually take Rei over Kai. If nothing else, Rei isn't exceedingly smart as well as idiotically strong. She simply follows orders and carries them out to the best of her ability (which is smashing things). There is at least some form of weakness/flaw there.

If I remember correctly, Kyoukai wants to be a Great General because she wants to have her own dream after her path of revenge. Which is why I think it's not absurd for Kyoukai's character to be like that. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.

Yotanwa usually relies on her men to fight which is normal I guess while Karin relies on strategies more even though her strength is up there with Kanmei like she stated. It would be interesting if we see her fight in person.

And wasn't Kyoukai's strategies usually come from her instinct? I remember she say something like, "Probably" whenever she devised a plan or something. Now while I don't know where she learned the military knowledge (could be from Ten when she first joined the HSU), we can't assume if Kyoukai pulled it from her ass that she stored some sort of knowledge beforehand.

With that being said, Kyoukai seems like a controversy in the Kingdom community which I never really notice before but if I were to ask a question, do you think Hara will nerfed Kyoukai at some point to make it more balanced for the verse? Just curious. Nice to see you being active again btw Owl :)

Houken might be able to actually. He tore into Kyou’s 2,000 man bodyguard unit and slayed Kyou herself single-hangedly. Kyou’s bodyguards were also not giving him any real trouble and he was dealing with them by the dozens quite easily.

Houken also easily and overwhelmingly slaughtered Gekishin’s Quanrong troops by the dozens, so severely that they actually stopped trying to fight him out of fear. The fucking Quanrong who are known for their brutality and savage strength, were scared of Houken with no backup. Lol

Houken’s power level has also been criticized, but the thing with Houken is that the story acknowledges how powerful Houken is. Like he goes straight from being ranked beneath a foot soldier of Zhao to being a Great Heaven solely because of his fighting prowess. Hara doesn’t fuck around with Houken you know? He makes him a Great General straight up in spite of the fact that he has no military knowledge or leadership training to speak of. Zhao recognizes his terrifying power when this literal random hobo shows up and starts killing top tier Great Generals of other states.

With Kyoukai, Hara made her practically as broken as Houken, but is then forced to sideline her because she is so broken that she ruins the tension in the story.

Hara uses Houken’s power to massively build him up as a threat and opposing force to Shin and co.,

Meanwhile Hara made Kyoukai almost as strong as Houken for no reason other than unashamed fanservice, and then sidelines her because she is literally too powerful for the manga to be enjoyable with her actually accomplishing as much as she is capable of.

Even then it was made clear that Houken was still within the realm of Kingdom's upper limits from the get go since Ouki defeated him in the past and his strength was deconstructed throughout the story. It was made clear that despite how utterly monstrous this man was, he was still ultimately a man.

He also wasn't a strategical genius on top of being super strong.

Kyoukai though? Nah, she has only ever gets dicked on by chance and circumstances because something has to take out of the story long enough for there to be tension.

When I was reading Kingdom like a few years ago, a lot of folks were complaining about Houken's power level and call him a hax. But when Houken reveals to have flaws and isn't really that otherworldly strong like many people think (for example, readers jumped on Houken when the arrow snuck on Ouki's back). I think people are too dive into power scaling consistency and doesn't realize the narrative of why Houken is this strong.

 

[Blackbeard]

Spoiler

Snorting all that Ryofui panel time be like :

 

[RayanOO]

Could Kyoukai solo Rinko during the Sanyou battle ?

 

[Jailer]

I will never get over Shins death and Kyokai hocus pocus uga bunga to bring him from the dead, not that she didb't have flaws before but that was the icing on the cake for me and I was done with her character since then. Of course I wont drop the manga because of one character tho, there are other characters I enjoy, but Kyokai is not one of them.

 

[RayanOO]

I will never get over Shins death and Kyokai hocus pocus uga bunga to bring him from the dead, not that she didb't have flaws before but that was the icing on the cake for me and I was done with her character since then. Of course I wont drop the manga because of one character tho, there are other characters I enjoy, but Kyokai is not one of them.

The fault is mainly on Shin defeating someone he should have not

way too early for shin and bullshit victory

 

[Jailer]

The fault is mainly on Shin defeating someone he shouldn’t have not

way too early for shin and bullshit victory

Could have still worked out if:

Shin wasn't pushed that far before facing a FRESH Houken

Or if Houken appeared earlier than that

Showcase Kyokai impact on Houken's strength serving as a nerf

 

[RayanOO]

Could have still worked out if:

Shin wasn't pushed that far before facing a FRESH Houken

Or if Houken appeared earlier than that

Showcase Kyokai impact on Houken's skills serving as a nerf

Shin wasn’t at Houken level

Shin wasn’t even a general at the time.

Ouki as one of the most powerful GG in history and a martial top 5 beat Houken with great struggle.

Shin was quite far from that Ouki.

Even Duke Hyou was stomped by Houken and Duke was mad strong

I agree that Houken wasn’t end game for Shin because lack of weight but he was at least end of Zhao campaign goal. Not middle of Zhao campaign

 

[Peroroncino]

Shin wasn’t at Houken level

Shin wasn’t even a general at the time.

Ouki as one of the most powerful GG in history and a martial top 5 beat Houken with great struggle.

Shin was quite far from that Ouki.

Even Duke Hyou was stomped by Houken and Duke was mad strong

I agree that Houken wasn’t end game for Shin because lack of weight but he was at least end of Zhao campaign goal. Not middle of Zhao campaign

You're assuming Qin will defeat Zhao here.
Author may still decide to make Han fall first like it happened irl after kankis defeat in the current battle.

 

[RayanOO]

You're assuming Qin will defeat Zhao here.
Author may still decide to make Han fall first like it happened irl after kankis defeat in the current battle.

Oh maybe. I don’t know exactly what Hara has in store. Just overall I think it was too soon for Shin to beat Houken. Hara went full shonen to beat him and Houken deserved better as a character. Same for Shin and his big history with Houken. It was a low point in the manga.

 

[Peroroncino]

Oh maybe. I don’t know exactly what Hara has in store. Just overall I think it was too soon for Shin to beat Houken. Hara went full shonen to beat him and Houken deserved better as a character. Same for Shin and his big history with Houken. It was a low point in the manga.

I didnt like houken since he was a deus ex machina to make Zhao win battles.
But the low point was kyoukai using some magic bullshit to bring Shin back for me.

 

[RayanOO]

I didnt like houken since he was a deus ex machina to make Zhao win battles.
But the low point was kyoukai using some magic bullshit to bring Shin back for me.

Yeah but it all started because Shin managed to somewhat beat a dude ten times stronger than him.

Shin vs Houken deserved a great showdown

But I agree that Kyoukai magic life jutsu was lame af

 

[Jailer]

Shin wasn’t at Houken level

Shin wasn’t even a general at the time.

Ouki as one of the most powerful GG in history and a martial top 5 beat Houken with great struggle.

Shin was quite far from that Ouki.

Even Duke Hyou was stomped by Houken and Duke was mad strong

I agree that Houken wasn’t end game for Shin because lack of weight but he was at least end of Zhao campaign goal. Not middle of Zhao campaign

I agree but there are different ways to take out characters like these that are too powerful especially in a manga like Kingdom, while Hara chose the most bs route that's my point

I wouldn't have minded Houken falling in that battle but not like that

 

[Owl Ki]

If I remember correctly, Kyoukai wants to be a Great General because she wants to have her own dream after her path of revenge. Which is why I think it's not absurd for Kyoukai's character to be like that. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.

Firstly, it isn't really her dream. She just randomly decided to have the same goal as Shin, the difference being that Shin strived towards that goal for his entire life whereas Kai spontaneously decided "Lmao, that'd be dope".

Secondly, it is an absurd goal when it directly contradicts what was seemingly being built up for Kai. She has this whole revenge arc, learnt the importance of friendship, went back to her friends and then announces that she aims to strive for a goal that will inevitably split her from those same friends that she spent the whole arc planning to go back to..... Bruh.

And wasn't Kyoukai's strategies usually come from her instinct? I remember she say something like, "Probably" whenever she devised a plan or something. Now while I don't know where she learned the military knowledge (could be from Ten when she first joined the HSU), we can't assume if Kyoukai pulled it from her ass that she stored some sort of knowledge beforehand.

Well she has never been even implied to be an instinctual type and she flat out strategised the strategists around her.

She also didn't learn from Ten because Kai was supposedly the brains of the HSU before Ten joined hence why we had that mini-arc that had Ten join the HSU after Kai's temporary departure to pursue generic revenge plot 101.

Like I said, I don't mind her being competent but I do mind her being smarter than people she should have no business being smarter than.

With that being said, Kyoukai seems like a controversy in the Kingdom community which I never really notice before but if I were to ask a question, do you think Hara will nerfed Kyoukai at some point to make it more balanced for the verse?

Just on the Kingdom community in Worst Gen as far as I know since outside of here, Kai seems to downright be the most popular character by a mile if that last opinion poll was anything to go by.

As for Hara nerfing her, I honestly thought that was why we had the Red Stair plot deal.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ap-between-heaven-and-earth.2915/#post-231722

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ap-between-heaven-and-earth.2915/#post-230955

This still hasn't happened though and continually looks less likely to happen. I am hoping that Kai leads her squad against an important Zhao point in this arc, attempts to go Super Shiyuu, her breath immediately stalls and she realises that she can't pull it off anymore.

Just curious. Nice to see you being active again btw Owl :)

Aye, tis good to see you too.

 

[Lhulu]

If I remember correctly, Kyoukai wants to be a Great General because she wants to have her own dream after her path of revenge. Which is why I think it's not absurd for Kyoukai's character to be like that. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.

Kyoukai following another path after her reveng plot is alright, but suddenly aiming the same position as Shin is too convenient, specially when we look at the construction of a Great General image.
It started like a child's dream but had an entire build up through the series, Shin got inspired by a lot of figures like Ouki, Duke Hyou, Renpa and even Riboku. Seeing these men on the battlefield materialized a dream into something realistic.

She doesn't have anything similar. Could be interesting to see her being inspired by a Great figure(either male of female) through the story, however this never happened, it doesn't looks like she real knows what a Great General means. And that unknowledge makes her very mediocre when compared with Shin's way. And no, I'm not asking for something at same level of Shin(he's the main character anyway) but it could be handled far better.
Other possibility was simple keeping her as a commander and Shin's important allie, an ok decision imo.

 

[RayanOO]

The Queen mother is also a great character

 

[MarineHQ]

The Queen mother is also a great character

Absolutely!!


She also hot

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

@Rumble @TeachMarshall @Big Boiii thoughts on this thread?

 

[SakazOuki]

@Rumble @TeachMarshall @Big Boiii thoughts on this thread?

Ryofui, one of the most interesting villains in fiction
Kanki and Ousen - really handled well by Hara, I liked how he built up their hype as potentially as talented as Qin 6 while working for a mediocre general. Kanki being the scum he is making his foes and allies alike sweat left and right.

Ousen has something of a schizoid nature, I usually enjoy characters who are this disconnected, yet are talented enough that you have to overlook their shadiness.