Controversial Can character's personalities reflect in it's fanbase
- Thread starter traxex123
- Start date
My top favs have always been villains, great villains define a series for me. Reason why my top 4 are Doflamingo, Enel, Lucci and Crocodile.
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
What did Crocodile get (in his original arc) that Kaido did not? The difference in charisma is obvious but it was evident since their introductions that they are different kind of characters, right?
To explain my gripes with Kaido..........well, it's gonna take an essay lmao.
I think I have posted it sometime ago in the forum, I'll try finding it.
But to summarize as short as I possible can, here we go:
Imagine Kaido not getting a character or a backstory in his own damn arc. I don't want to hear excuses of "saved for rocks", doesn't matter. If Kaido indeed get a backstory say 100 chapters later, it would be too late and wouldn't have remotely the same impact cause we would've moved on.
Plus, there could've been plenty for Kaido outside of his rocks period - like his backstory pre Rocks, backstory with King & forming BP post breaking out of lab, him getting to know about Joyboy and how he came to believe he was the one, how he later realized that he wasn't Joyboy, his persona changing from Roger/Luffy-esque when he met King to the suicidal maniac he is now etc.
ALL of the above doesn't involve Rocks AT ALL. At least directly.
Kaido, the dude who basically defined the entire post TS until end of Wano, doesn't have a character defining moment or a backstory. Peak LOda writing.
Comparing with Crocodile........
With Crocodile, we got to know his goals, enough about his past was hinted around here and there (contrast with Luffy who didn't abandon his dream after getting crushed multiple times, vs Crocodile who did after getting crushed).
And yea, part of it is also charisma and personality. The "feel" or "presence" of the character at the moment and in the arc. Enel for example, has no backstory at all. But his presence on screen and persona was something else really for OP standards, I'd argue it's till date unmatched in the series but then again that's probably a personal opinion/preference.
I think I have posted it sometime ago in the forum, I'll try finding it.
But to summarize as short as I possible can, here we go:
Imagine Kaido not getting a character or a backstory in his own damn arc. I don't want to hear excuses of "saved for rocks", doesn't matter. If Kaido indeed get a backstory say 100 chapters later, it would be too late and wouldn't have remotely the same impact cause we would've moved on.
Plus, there could've been plenty for Kaido outside of his rocks period - like his backstory pre Rocks, backstory with King & forming BP post breaking out of lab, him getting to know about Joyboy and how he came to believe he was the one, how he later realized that he wasn't Joyboy, his persona changing from Roger/Luffy-esque when he met King to the suicidal maniac he is now etc.
ALL of the above doesn't involve Rocks AT ALL. At least directly.
Kaido, the dude who basically defined the entire post TS until end of Wano, doesn't have a character defining moment or a backstory. Peak LOda writing.
Comparing with Crocodile........
With Crocodile, we got to know his goals, enough about his past was hinted around here and there (contrast with Luffy who didn't abandon his dream after getting crushed multiple times, vs Crocodile who did after getting crushed).
And yea, part of it is also charisma and personality. The "feel" or "presence" of the character at the moment and in the arc. Enel for example, has no backstory at all. But his presence on screen and persona was something else really for OP standards, I'd argue it's till date unmatched in the series but then again that's probably a personal opinion/preference.
:cheers:
My top favs have always been villains, great villains define a series for me. Reason why my top 4 are Doflamingo, Enel, Lucci and Crocodile.
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
That's why you see many Naruto fans prefer Pain or Obito or Madara because they're all great villains.
But yeah, my expectations exceeded for Kaido's power as the WSC but his character was poorly handled.
Oda is a hit or miss when it comes to antagonist writing lol.
My top favs have always been villains, great villains define a series for me. Reason why my top 4 are Doflamingo, Enel, Lucci and Crocodile.
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
Back when Wano started, I was fully expecting Kaido to surpaass them all as a villain. I was expecting one of the greatest villains of anime/manga.
Instead, we got what we got
No character defining moment, 5 panels of backstory and no deeper goal which were hinted/teased often, sprinkled here and there. Maybe it will come later, but then it will be simply too damn late and we would've moved on.
Only positive about him was that he lived upto his hype as the WSC
Post automatically merged:
Did Crocodile get a flashback?
The thing is, there were several hints/teases about Kaido's backstory, goals and personality scrambled around here and there in Wano. Only to be never explored in detailed. There were opportunities for the teases to culminate in an eventual character defining moment, but LOda rushed and couldn't bother.
Just to name a few:
- Kaido's personality was almost Luffy-esque when he first met King and formed beast pirates. In fact, Kaido/King meet is similar to Luffy/Zoro meet even.
Kaido went from this personality, to a depressed drunkard. Well, what happened? The tease was there, but never explored upon.
Kaido is implied to be a Luffy gone wrong. And King was a Zoro gone wrong ("Kaido is the man who will become PK", "I won't lose", a swordsman who uses dishonourable tactics)
Even in Oden's flashback, Kaido wasn't so depressed, looking for a way to die. He, while darker than when he met with King, was still having some of the spark he had before.
- Kaido said to Yamato "I am here BECAUSE it is Wano". It is implied that he knew there was something special about Wano, and it obviously wasn't just because Wano offered great weapons manufacturing facilities.
- Kaido, at some point in his life, thought that he was Joyboy. Whatever story he heard about Joyboy from King, something in there suggested to him that he fit the bill.
But later, he came to believe that he was not Joyboy, but that his role was some kind of gatekeeper/harbinger of Joyboy. What made him think he was Joyboy and why he later thought he wasn't?
There are more as well, but for starters this is enough.
@MonsterKaido @Sasaki Kojirō thoughts?
:cheers:
On a serious note though. It's more of me appreciating great villains. But yes, there are parts of these characters I admire as well, especially in Doflamingo. With Enel, it's more of a power fantasy lmao.
Enel was already in the commander range back then, purely because of sheer attack power and observation haki. Oda back then said he would've had 500 million if he was a pirate, and this was before all the bounty inflation. For context, it's around the same bounty as Ace
If he ever returns, and learns armament haki and ups his haki considerably. Then he's for sure getting the "in betweeners". I mean, where Zoro, Law etc are currently .
As for Doflamingo. If that dude ever gets out of prison and be relevant again, he's going to be retconned to a superior level like how Crocodile was.
If he gains advanced conqueror's haki post prison, he instantly becomes a low top tier (i.e comparable to new admirals and old man trio). It doesn't even need to be sky splitter conqueror's haki, just need to learn advanced conqueror's and he's already low top tier.
Just to name a few:
- Kaido's personality was almost Luffy-esque when he first met King and formed beast pirates. In fact, Kaido/King meet is similar to Luffy/Zoro meet even.
Kaido went from this personality, to a depressed drunkard. Well, what happened? The tease was there, but never explored upon.
Kaido is implied to be a Luffy gone wrong. And King was a Zoro gone wrong ("Kaido is the man who will become PK", "I won't lose", a swordsman who uses dishonourable tactics)
Even in Oden's flashback, Kaido wasn't so depressed, looking for a way to die. He, while darker than when he met with King, was still having some of the spark he had before.
- Kaido said to Yamato "I am here BECAUSE it is Wano". It is implied that he knew there was something special about Wano, and it obviously wasn't just because Wano offered great weapons manufacturing facilities.
- Kaido, at some point in his life, thought that he was Joyboy. Whatever story he heard about Joyboy from King, something in there suggested to him that he fit the bill.
But later, he came to believe that he was not Joyboy, but that his role was some kind of gatekeeper/harbinger of Joyboy. What made him think he was Joyboy and why he later thought he wasn't?
There are more as well, but for starters this is enough.
@MonsterKaido @Sasaki Kojirō thoughts?
:cheers:
On a serious note though. It's more of me appreciating great villains. But yes, there are parts of these characters I admire as well, especially in Doflamingo. With Enel, it's more of a power fantasy lmao.
Enel was already in the commander range back then, purely because of sheer attack power and observation haki. Oda back then said he would've had 500 million if he was a pirate, and this was before all the bounty inflation. For context, it's around the same bounty as Ace
If he ever returns, and learns armament haki and ups his haki considerably. Then he's for sure getting the "in betweeners". I mean, where Zoro, Law etc are currently .
As for Doflamingo. If that dude ever gets out of prison and be relevant again, he's going to be retconned to a superior level like how Crocodile was.
If he gains advanced conqueror's haki post prison, he instantly becomes a low top tier (i.e comparable to new admirals and old man trio). It doesn't even need to be sky splitter conqueror's haki, just need to learn advanced conqueror's and he's already low top tier.
Well, I dont think Kaido is a bad character, you are right when you say we didnt get character development, but for me it aint bad, yet it also is a top tier character as you mention.
And you are wrong, Kaido never saw himself as Joyboy, he just said that Joyboy will be the guy who defeats him, it was King who saw him as Joyboy.
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