Anime Discussion Code Geass thread

[Den_Den_Mushi]

@Den_Den_Mushi I forgot you read it as well. Drop some thoughts, I always enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks for the tag, Light! The thing I liked most about CG was the fact that Lelouch was the ubermensch, the ultimate strategist, but he was forced to rely on other people to succeed. I enjoyed the chess motif between him and the Black Knights, especially Kallen. I think she made a far better right hand for him than Suzaku, and had Lelouch lived, Kallen would have had actual ideas to improve the lives of the Japanese.

 

[Cinera]

Just that "movie" after the complication movies.

Maybe I'll download it tomorrow.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Thanks for the tag, Light! The thing I liked most about CG was the fact that Lelouch was the ubermensch, the ultimate strategist, but he was forced to rely on other people to succeed. I enjoyed the chess motif between him and the Black Knights, especially Kallen. I think she made a far better right hand for him than Suzaku, and had Lelouch lived, Kallen would have had actual ideas to improve the lives of the Japanese.

Aye. As I said earlier the chess motif is one of my favourite parts of the show. Suzaku felt out of place somehow for that position, you got a point there.

I must say one thing. I adore Lulu, but I prefer him to stay dead. I won't be disappointed if he is back somehow, but the ending of CG was perfect.

Oh, how I'd like to see a crossover with him and Light. A man can dream.

 

[RayanOO]

I think we can all agree that Susaku is a pain to watch : his way of defending Japan : going with the system instead of fighting it etc could have been interesting, the fact that he was the son of the former prime minister too. So his story had potential but the guy was tasteless and boring.

 

[Cinera]

I think we can all agree that Susaku is a pain to watch : his way of defending Japan : going with the system instead of fighting it etc could have been interesting, the fact that he was the son of the former prime minister too. So his story had potential but the guy was tasteless and boring.

Eh, I'm not on board with the Suzaku hate. He wasn't one of my favourite characters, but I never found him to be a bother or otherwise painful to watch, and he was compelling in his own way.

 

[silverfire]

@silverfire didn't know you are a fan as well. Schneizel is a good choice.

It’s been over 10 years since I watched it, but it’s definitely one of the best. It’s often compared to death note (just like your username), but I prefer it and lelouch to light, because he’s more human along with the rest of her characters.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

It’s been over 10 years since I watched it, but it’s definitely one of the best. It’s often compared to death note (just like your username), but I prefer it and lelouch to light, because he’s more human along with the rest of her characters.

I love them almost equally. Maybe Light edging it out a bit. That's probably because I watched DN first.

 

[Cinera]

I love them almost equally. Maybe Light edging it out a bit. That's probably because I watched DN first.

Lulu felt more relatable and human I think. Vengeance and love are more compelling motivations than a God complex.

 

[Ena]

I really expected suzaku to have more fans

 

[Cinera]

I really expected suzaku to have more fans

I really liked his stint as the Knight of Zero.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Lulu felt more relatable and human I think. Vengeance and love are more compelling motivations than a God complex.

One on one fight. Who gets the better of the other?
Scenario A- chess battle
Scenario B- Lelouch takes L's place, can he take down Light?
Scenario C- they are in the same world and each one wants to achieve their original goal, who succeeds?


This is not a question only for you, but for all others who are willing to answer.

 

[ZenZu]

One on one fight. Who gets the better of the other?
Scenario A- chess battle

Lelouch, he is superior in tactical warfare, where chess plays a bigger role.

Scenario B- Lelouch takes L's place, can he take down Light?

Not a chance, Light is much more meticulous than Lelouch. L was light years ahead of Lelouch in deductive reasoning, something vital to detective work.

If L was an extreme diff, Lelouch would be mid diff in the same situation given Light holds the advantage with the supernatural powers.

Scenario C- they are in the same world and each one wants to achieve their original goal, who succeeds?

Depends, but Light more times than not, he is smarter the way he goes about things in general. Lelouch leaves a bit too much room for random variables to take place, he relies a tad too much on luck and is forced to abuse his OP ability. Light makes sure luck plays as small a role as possible, he sees to it that he controls as many variables as possible, where random events are minimized.

However if both were commanding armies as generals in a battle, I'd give it to Lelouch, he is much more experienced there and would be able to read the flow of the battle at a higher level, Light would be overthinking himself into a corner in such an upfront large scale showdown.

But those scenarios are few and far between, overall Light would edge out in most scenarios, due to the difference in attention to detail.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Lelouch, he is superior in tactical warfare, where chess plays a bigger role.



Not a chance, Light is much more meticulous than Lelouch. L was light years ahead of Lelouch in deductive reasoning, something vital to detective work.

If L was an extreme diff, Lelouch would be mid diff in the same situation given Light holds the advantage with the supernatural powers.



Depends, but Light more times than not, he is smarter the way he goes about things in general. Lelouch leaves a bit too much room for random variables to take place, he relies a tad too much on luck and is forced to abuse his OP ability. Light makes sure luck plays as small a role as possible, he sees to it that he controls as many variables as possible, where random events are minimized.

However if both were commanding armies as generals in a battle, I'd give it to Lelouch, he is much more experienced there and would be able to read the flow of the battle at a higher level, Light would be overthinking himself into a corner in such an upfront large scale showdown.

But those scenarios are few and far between, overall Light would edge out in most scenarios, due to the difference in attention to detail.

Damn that's a good answer. It aligns with my thoughts. Will revisit this later and put more effort once I get some sleep and hop on my PC.

Interested in hearing @silverfire's thoughts. He might wanna argue for Lulu. @Bogard too.

@Den_Den_Mushi you might like this as well.

Ofc, all others are welcome to answer as well.

 

[silverfire]

Damn that's a good answer. It aligns with my thoughts. Will revisit this later and put more effort once I get some sleep and hop on my PC.

Interested in hearing @silverfire's thoughts. He might wanna argue for Lulu. @Bogard too.

@Den_Den_Mushi you might like this as well.

Ofc, all others are welcome to answer as well.

Nah I don’t actually. Lelouch was a lot more flawed and emotional. I like him better but he wouldn’t win a battle of wits against Light. Probably just as smart as him, but light had this mechanical aspect to him that’d make him nearly impossible to beat. Too meticulous, too thorough, while lelouch would get frustrated and do something impulsive.

I actually think light would win even in warfare. Chess is the only place he’d likely lose.

 

[Cinera]

Scenario A- chess battle

I'd bet on Lelouch for Chess as intelligence only takes you so far. He's likely much more skilled at and experienced on the chess board than Light. He should win quite handily.

Scenario B- Lelouch takes L's place, can he take down Light?

It's been so long since I watched Death Note. Ugh, I don't remember if Lelouch actually displayed gambits that impressive. If he doesn't have his Geass, I am not sure how impressive he would be. His main asset would be his social fu and in manipulating folks to work for him. He may not be as prone to certain biases as Light as well. I'm not sure he'd ultimately be able to pull it off though.

I guess I would go with No.

Alternatively, he may use the Death Note to claw his way to actual power. He probably wouldn't engage L on the same battlefield that Light did (there's not much need to play detective). With the Death Note he could make a lot of money, acquire tons of resources, and build a real power base. If he takes this route and adopts Zero again, perhaps he would win.

Scenario C- they are in the same world and each one wants to achieve their original goal, who succeeds?

If Lelouch retains his Geass, he's pretty formidable. He also has canonically clawed his way to power before (though starting from a favourable enough position). The main problem is that discovering his true name may not be that difficult. However, if he learns Kira's existence (this seems likely), he'll probably maintain the Zero mask. He should also be more skilled in social fu than Light.

Would the Eyes of the Death God work on Zero (when he's wearing a full mask)?

I would ultimately bet on Lelouch here I think.


I haven't looked at anyone else's reply. I might have left out some pertinent factors.

 

[RayanOO]

One on one fight. Who gets the better of the other?
Scenario A- chess battle
Scenario B- Lelouch takes L's place, can he take down Light?
Scenario C- they are in the same world and each one wants to achieve their original goal, who succeeds?

Haha I think you already created a thread about that : Lelouch vs Light vs Johan Liebert

And Johan is the king of the psychos

This is my guess :

A ) Lelouch takes it, more practice, more experience is war strategies, tactics etc

B) Lelouch power is insane and more versatile than Light's one, but character wise Lelouch has more flaws. I bet on Light more times than not.

C) Here Lelouch would have a lot more allies, Lelouch has a human vibes and social skills that make him really popular. I think Lelouch will gather followers better than Light. And Lelouch always pretend to fight for justice while Kira's morale is more ambiguous. And if Kira's begin to kill every criminals then Lelouch will take this opportunity to gather all the rifrafs of the world to help him take down Kira. Lelouch will act as always as a main figure and will fight as a dark knight, maybe the living symbol of Zero will be less threatening than the shadow presence of Kira but more popular.

But the flip side is that Light could use one of his goons to infiltrate Lelouch band to collect names etc. And Light will investigate Zero too and Light is really really smart. If Light discover Lelouch identity its game over.

An other thing is the police of the this world : there will be Kira and Zero : who will be chased more than the other ? I think Zero has an opportunity to be viewed as the lesser of the two evils and to have some slack from Interpol etc.

And Lelouch still has his eye powers. He can convince the politicians to promote Zero has the one who can establish order again etc, then when Kira will be dealt Zero can rule.

Lelouch still has more flaws than Kira but here the fight will be intense.

 

[Cinera]

Scenario B- Lelouch takes L's place, can he take down Light?

It's been so long since I watched Death Note. Ugh, I don't remember if Lelouch actually displayed gambits that impressive. If he doesn't have his Geass, I am not sure how impressive he would be. His main asset would be his social fu and in manipulating folks to work for him. He may not be as prone to certain biases as Light as well. I'm not sure he'd ultimately be able to pull it off though.

I guess I would go with No.

Alternatively, he may use the Death Note to claw his way to actual power. He probably wouldn't engage L on the same battlefield that Light did (there's not much need to play detective). With the Death Note he could make a lot of money, acquire tons of resources, and build a real power base. If he takes this route and adopts Zero again, perhaps he would win

Ugh, I rolled a 0 for reading comprehension. I read this as "Lelouch takes Light's place, can he take down L". Looking at the actual question, I would revise this to a most definite "No". Lelouch is much less formidable as a detective than L was, and may be inferior in raw cognitive prowess as well. Just like Lelouch is the much stronger chess player than Light (by virtue of specialisation and years of experience), L is much more capable as a detective than Lelouch is. As for the chess question, raw cognitive prowess can only take you so far (it is even doubtful if Lelouch is L's equal let alone superior there). Light would crush him with at most medium difficulty.


I guess my final answer is:

• Chess board: Lelouch
• Detective: Light
• Unconstrained world: Lelouch

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

In unconstrained world, are people assuming Light identity is well known that Lelouch can Beat him with allies? If not, how exactly are Everyone repeating the same opinion?

I dont think lelouch is capable of even figuring out Light identity, much less defeat him. Maybe since L made it seem so easy that everyone assuming Lelouch can do it so, bt i doubt so.

And in Chess i certainly think Lelouch has good chances given his very first battle, bt the intensity and details Light put into his plans i also wouldn't underestimate him here.
To me, Lelouch is inferior to Light n L without his Eye powers, he is more dependnt on that and getting work done through em. While Light entire battle with L consists of Mind Games and Battles in their Heads, finding out each other identities. They calculated steps ahead moves, basically what Chess Game is. Hence i can't even give Lelouch the Benefit of doubt here.

Maybe i am underestimating Lelouch since it's been Years i last watched it, bt i frankly dont consider him at Light or L lvl. He's good bt they are much better.
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And Lelouch vs L? If L doesn't come out, No.

Bt If L comes out like he did with Light, it's very easy job for Lelouch with his allies and manpower.

 

[Cinera]

While Light entire battle with L consists of Mind Games and Battles in their Heads, finding out each other identities. They calculated steps ahead moves, basically what Chess Game is. Hence i can't even give Lelouch the Benefit of doubt here.

raw cognitive prowess can only take you so far

A 5 SD individual who just picked up chess a month ago would lose to a 3 SD Grandmaster despite the substantial intelligence gap in favour of the rookie. Intelligence can only do so much. In a game of perfect information like chess, experience, intuition built over thousands of games, strategies built upon thousands of person years of playing the game, etc are all much more important. Lelouch would absolutely crush Light in Chess, it's not even debatable. The gap between Lelouch and Light is not up to 2 SD (it's not been established that it's as large as a single standard deviation). There's no argument to be made in Light's favour here.

In unconstrained world, are people assuming Light identity is well known that Lelouch can Beat him with allies? If not, how exactly are Everyone repeating the same opinion?

I dont think lelouch is capable of even figuring out Light identity, much less defeat him. Maybe since L made it seem so easy that everyone assuming Lelouch can do it so, bt i doubt so.

Geass is pretty haxxed and versatile. Lelouch is also substantially better at social fu. He would be able to acquire a lot more resources than Light (he did canonically become emperor of mankind), and that gap in resources would show. An unconstrained world doesn't put Lelouch on equal footing as Light, within a few months, he would have a massive gap in resources between him and Light. With the manpower he would have at his disposal and his haxxed Geass he should be able to eventually take care of Light.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

A 5 SD individual who just picked up chess a month ago would lose to a 3 SD Grandmaster despite the substantial intelligence gap in favour of the rookie. Intelligence can only do so much. In a game of perfect information like chess, experience, intuition built over thousands of games, strategies built upon 1000s of person years of playing the game, etc are all much more important. Lelouch would absolutely crush Light in Chess, it's not even debatable. The gap between Lelouch and Light is not up to 2 SD (it's not been established that it's as large as a single standard deviation). There's no argument to be made in Light's favour here.



Geass is pretty haxxed and versatile. Lelouch is also substantially better at social fu. He would be able to acquire a lot more resources than Light (he did canonically become emperor of mankind), and that gap in resources would show. An unconstrained world doesn't put Lelouch on equal footing as Light, within a few months, he would have a massive gap in resources between him and Light. With the manpower he would have at his disposal and his haxxed Geass he should be able to eventually take care of Light.

And you go with the Assumption, Light has no clue about Chess. He is still a modern student upto date with Technology.
Anyway Like i said, it involves thinking multiples steps ahead and also opponent best moves, which is what he did with L.

Yes, and you still didn't mention anything on how Lelouch would pinpoint Light identity. Light is simply one other student watching News on TV among Millions and writing Names of diseased one in his Notebook. L, used an experiment to deduct Light abilities and had experience of studying Death being a Detective, if Lelouch don't find that out, he can never guess who is killing his allies and how.
While Light can keep writing Lelouch allies name in Notebook and can even get one of em to kill Lelouch either directly or by making em write Lelouch actual name in DeathNote if he/she is close to Light. Light is also smart enough to make connections who this Mask guy is, since Lelouch will be more upfront about it and Lelouch simply won't be so careful, and can't be if he has no idea about Deathnote. If Light make the connection, he can Blackmail Lelouch into suicide by writing his sister name or get his sister to write Lelouch name by some mischief.
I think Folks just love giving benefit of doubt, bt L was best Detective and it was his field to deduct methods of death and possible clues on Killer. While Lelouch method is more straightfwd. So No i am not convinced.