Controversial DEVELOPMENT INERTIA - Or why Oda MAY have made an error in Wano.

[Logiko]

ok look I get what you're trying to say

however this whole part that I quoted is just your POV which many people views differently

carrot gets attracted to most new thing she sees or does and reacts in the same fashion but that doesn't mean she is set up to do all those things in future as well

That's the thing, Oda may have setup those things without wanting to do that. Those are not basic reactions of someone new on the sea, it's a clear repetition of reaction of someone being amazed by the sea and loving danger.

Sometime, its possible for a author to be carried away and there is a possibility indeed that Carrot never come back and that Oda created Carrot in the first place with just the intent of creating a fun character to ride with.. but ask yourself this question. In a narrative sence, with everything you know about Carrot's path and well.. development inertia.. what would make the most sence and what would be the most interesting narratively for her:

To stay on her Island as a queen or.. to sneak away on her own ?

The answer to that question is why I think Carrot is a narrative abnormality..

 

[AL sama]

That's the thing, Oda may have setup those things without wanting to do that. Those are not basic reactions of someone new on the sea, it's a clear repetition of reaction of someone being amazed by the sea and loving danger.

Sometime, its possible for a author to be carried away and there is a possibility indeed that Carrot never come back and that Oda created Carrot in the first place with just the intent of creating a fun character to ride with.. but ask yourself this question. In a narrative sence, with everything you know about Carrot's path and well.. development inertia.. what would make the most sence and what would be the most interesting narratively for her:

To stay on her Island as a queen or.. to sneak away on her own ?

The answer to that question is why I think Carrot is a narrative abnormality..

again that's just your opinion on the matter and I have mine

 

[Reborn]

Logiko you want positivity.... ultra positivity....

Join zoro fc. You will then realise our unwavering faith on oda and our over the top optimism 💀

 

[Logiko]

again that's just your opinion on the matter and I have mine

Again, that's the thing, technique is not an opinion. I know that people here don't want to hear that but there is a real technique used here. Repetition of characterization. Meaning that weither it was made intentionnaly or not, this technique still remains in the manga and create a path for the character.

That's why you can sometime hear Oda say "my characters acts on their own", my guess is that he unintentionnaly do that a lot and notice it. But this time, he did not.

Logiko you want positivity.... ultra positivity....

Join zoro fc. You will then realise our unwavering faith on oda and our over the top optimism 💀

Nah, I just want a rationnal optimism and positivity lol


Also, little secret, I don't have that "faith" people have about Oda. Because I know how difficult the thing he his creating is, I'm always on edge. That's why I love One Piece so much, I'm always happily surprised.

 

[Reborn]

Again, that's the thing, technique is not an opinion. I know that people here don't want to hear that but there is a real technique used here. Repetition of characterization. Meaning that weither it was made intentionnaly or not, this technique still remains in the manga and create a path for the character.

That's why you can sometime hear Oda say "my characters acts on their own", my guess is that he unintentionnaly do that a lot and notice it. But this time, he did not.

Nah, I just want a rationnal optimism and positivity lol

We are rationally positive


Do you think Zoro will fight kizaru? Not beat him but fight

 

[Logiko]

Do you think Zoro will fight kizaru? Not beat him but fight

I don't know. But if I had to guess I think Luffy will be the one to fight. It seems logical as there is no bigger threats. Now.. ZOro might fight Lucci tho

 

[Reborn]

I don't know. But if I had to guess I think Luffy will be the one to fight. It seems logical as there is no bigger threats. Now.. ZOro might fight Lucci tho

Gorosei is bigger threat

 

[Uncle Van]

Gotta say, really disappointed that the mistake in Wano you was talking about was just Carrot, a character you give way more attention to than the author. Her biggest moment in the series was only done because Naito, Oda's editor at the time. The instant Naito was fired, Carrot was separated from all the main plot points.

Oda never made any mistake with Carrot. Carrot, like other failed candidates, was pushed beyond her pay grade by the fanbase cause they wanted her to be a SH.

 

[AL sama]

Again, that's the thing, technique is not an opinion. I know that people here don't want to hear that but there is a real technique used here. Repetition of characterization. Meaning that weither it was made intentionnaly or not, this technique still remains in the manga and create a path for the character.

That's why you can sometime hear Oda say "my characters acts on their own", my guess is that he unintentionnaly do that a lot and notice it. But this time, he did not.

mate you try to force your takes as facts on others thar's why I don't take you seriously even tho talking to people sincerely is my nature

 

[Logiko]

Gotta say, really disappointed that the mistake in Wano you was talking about was just Carrot, a character you give way more attention to than the author. Her biggest moment in the series was only done because Naito, Oda's editor at the time. The instant Naito was fired, Carrot was separated from all the main plot points.

Oda never made any mistake with Carrot. Carrot, like other failed candidates, was pushed beyond her pay grade by the fanbase cause they wanted her to be a SH.

I couldve talked about the real mistake he did in Wano, being the Mink's medication (that was not setup at all) but the thread wouldve lasted only one paragraph and would not be that interesting.

You need to understand that I'm not saying that Carrot shouldve been a strawhat. No. I just thing she should (at this moment) be wanting more danger and more adventure on the sea. The strawhat for me, was just the logical option, that's why I maintained it for so long.

mate you try to force your takes as facts on others thar's why I don't take you seriously even tho talking to people sincerely is my nature

Well I'm sorry if you think that, but there are things that are not opinions.

What could be an opinion is a conclusion of a theory for example: Carrot will appear again. That's an opinion based on possible data. But when real storytelling tools are used, we need all to understand that things are not in the subjective realm anymore.

I'm not gatekeeping here, I give almost all the knowledge I have on the matters.

You have the right not to take me seriously. But I can assure that once you do... you will see things very differently.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

Gotta say, really disappointed that the mistake in Wano you was talking about was just Carrot, a character you give way more attention to than the author. Her biggest moment in the series was only done because Naito, Oda's editor at the time. The instant Naito was fired, Carrot was separated from all the main plot points.

I love how every time Naito gets brought up Carrot fans have an absolute meltdown

They say "you're coping, Naito had nothing to do with anything"

 

[AL sama]

Well I'm sorry if you think that, but there are things that are not opinions.

What could be an opinion is a conclusion of a theory for example: Carrot will appear again. That's an opinion based on possible data. But when real storytelling tools are used, we need all to understand that things are not in the subjective realm anymore.

I'm not gatekeeping here, I give almost all the knowledge I have on the matters.

You have the right not to take me seriously. But I can assure that once you do... you will see things very differently.

its sad to see that you think you're the only one who knows about writing here

 

[Uncle Van]

I couldve talked about the real mistake he did in Wano, being the Mink's medication (that was not setup at all) but the thread wouldve lasted only one paragraph and would not be that interesting.

You need to understand that I'm not saying that Carrot shouldve been a strawhat. No. I just thing she should (at this moment) be wanting more danger and more adventure on the sea. The strawhat for me, was just the logical option, that's why I maintained it for so long.


Well I'm sorry if you think that, but there are things that are not opinions.

What could be an opinion is a conclusion of a theory for example: Carrot will appear again. That's an opinion based on possible data. But when real storytelling tools are used, we need all to understand that things are not in the subjective realm anymore.

I'm not gatekeeping here, I give almost all the knowledge I have on the matters.

You have the right not to take me seriously. But I can assure that once you do... you will see things very differently.

Your point is that Carrot's journey is unfinished and she would return. Yes....Carrot, like many many other characters, will return. That doesn't require an analysis to say.

It also doesn't take a genius to know that this analysis is born from the disappointment of Carrot not joining a straw hats, something that was never a logical conclusion given how it would've required Oda to change his writing style. Important characters are written as such and thrown in your face. They don't get sidelined and remove from every plot line.

 

[Logiko]

I love how every time Naito gets brought up Carrot fans have an absolute meltdown

They say "you're coping, Naito had nothing to do with anything"

I don't really care what Naito had to do with the story, I only look at what was drawned and written.

its sad to see that you think you're the only one who knows about writing here

I'm not, I notice a few people with writing analatical skills here, Sigran being one of them. I'm just the most self confident about it, that's all. I still have a lot to learn, but I know that the things I know about storytelling (at least) are pretty solid.

Your point is that Carrot's journey is unfinished and she would return.

Hm no. My point is that Carrot SHOULD want something more. Her returning in the story is just a theory that I pushed once. For all I know, Oda may doesn't care about Carrot anymore, I don't know.

It also doesn't take a genius to know that this analysis is born from the disappointment of Carrot not joining a straw hats

If you think that, I can't really say anything, right, seems like you are in my head.. ?

I proved to you guys that I'm always rationnal about storytelling. Did I throw a tantrum when Carrot was pushed toward Zou ?

something that was never a logical conclusion given how it would've required Oda to change his writing style

No, everything was in place. It would've require just a huge push in the next arcs.

They don't get sidelined and remove from every plot line.

Sanji was removed from the plotline of the island of the Giant. It was short but it did happen. He was sidelined for a while until he came back.

So that's not a good excuse.

 

[Uncle Van]

Hm no. My point is that Carrot SHOULD want something more. Her returning in the story is just a theory that I pushed once. For all I know, Oda may doesn't care about Carrot anymore, I don't know.

Nothing but your expectations for the character. Her returning doesn't require a theory....she's literally living on top of one of the most important pieces for the Void Century.

If you think that, I can't really say anything, right, seems like you are in my head.. ?

I proved to you guys that I'm always rationnal about storytelling. Did I throw a tantrum when Carrot was pushed toward Zou ?

You were very irrational throughout Wano's time frame. When Carrot didn't join when it was obvious from the get go, you blamed Oda for changing his mind instead of your analysis being wrong.

No, everything was in place. It would've require just a huge push in the next arcs.

Nothing was in place, especially given how Carrot's biggest moment, the main reason fans inflate her importance, was only because of an editor who was obsessed with her.

Sanji was removed from the plotline of the island of the Giant. It was short but it did happen. He was sidelined for a while until he came back.

So that's not a good excuse.

Sanji was already an established main character and part of the crew. He was part of the biggest plot twist in the arc. A supporting character completely separated and unimportant for the biggest, most anticipated arc doesn't compare.

 

[Kenshiro11]

Agreed. Ode made a mistake on Carrot.
He should've killed her on Wano so all you furries can finally shut the fuck up.
Fucking boring ass character.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

I don't really care what Naito had to do with the story, I only look at what was drawned and written.

You should

Because you have him to thank for a lot of those moments. And don't start coping either, because as soon he stepped down from his position what happened to Carrot again?

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

I'm not, I notice a few people with writing analatical skills here, Sigran being one of them. I'm just the most self confident about it, that's all. I still have a lot to learn, but I know that the things I know about storytelling (at least) are pretty solid.

Just write your own story at this point. Seriously

 

[Logiko]

Just write your own story at this point. Seriously

Trust me, if I could, I would.. I throw you back to my presentation, you should understand why there is an issue.

Nothing but your expectations for the character. Her returning doesn't require a theory....she's literally living on top of one of the most important pieces for the Void Century.

Everything requires a theory when we are talking about the future of a story

You were very irrational throughout Wano's time frame. When Carrot didn't join when it was obvious from the get go, you blamed Oda for changing his mind instead of your analysis being wrong.

My conclusion was wrong, yes.

My analysis wasn't.

And I don't remember blaming Oda for not putting Carrot in the strawhat. That's an invention of yours. In fact, the way Oda is writing Carrot could still be interpreted as a potential clue for her joining the crew (which would indeed be an opinion).

I just choosed to end my theory there. Oda is not at fault here.

And I don't remember being irrational throughrough Wano either. I remember on the contrary trying to explain my theory the most calmly possible.. again... and again... and again.. and again.. and again.. and again. Facing toxicity, fallaciousness, personnal attack, psychophobia and sometime straight up insults.

I think you are confusing yourself on who was really irrationnal during that period.

My only fault was to be overconfident, that's all.

Nothing was in place, especially given how Carrot's biggest moment, the main reason fans inflate her importance, was only because of an editor who was obsessed with her.

Do you have a proof of that ? An interview maybe concerning Carrot ?

Sanji was already an established main character and part of the crew. He was part of the biggest plot twist in the arc. A supporting character completely separated and unimportant for the biggest, most anticipated arc doesn't compare.

That's a good point. But yes it can be compared. The principle here is to compare two situations. If Carrot was to return, it would be easy for Oda to put her in a place where she takes the light and becomes a future member. Let's imagine rapidely:

- The strawhats are in a pinch, something went wrong and the coup de burst is not enough to go away from the marine.
- Its foggy all arround, the strawhats are surrounded but the marine can't shoot
- Lucci use a tronsponder snale to give the location of the strawhats or use a huge firework. Everyone jumps on him
- Panic aboard, Lucci start fighting, Kaku doesn't understand and doesn't fight
- The fog start to vanish, its a burster call scenario, the ship is surrounded. Lucci jump out.
- Moment of panic
- BROUUUUUUUUUAAA a giant shadow appears behind the smoke..
- THe marines start panicking, something is on their ship
- We can see ray of lighting going from ship to ship
- "Shot down the strawhats"
- Canon fired... a... marine ship is touched
- Suddenly, all the ship start derivating, some are shooting other
- Boat are sinking all over
- Usopp and Chopper are crying in each others arm "what is happening???"
- At roughly 300m away of them the rest of the navy fleet is in standby
- Kizaru is resting with bandages in the room of the Elder. A vice admiral is taking a call
- "sir, there everywhere" "What's happening?" "There is island" Its all whit.. glrmburmhhh..."
- Shot fired, this time from another ship..
- We see a mouth with a dendenmushi "Zunisha, take care of the last one"
- At this moment A huge trunk slashes the entire fleet in front of the strawhat
- The strawhat are exploding with joy
- Jay Saturn, surprised and sweating "Zunisha ?????"
- The voice continues :" Marines... BACK OFF....
- Two strike of lighting return on their ship
- We see a double page.. Carrot, in Sulong is in front of her ship, a dendenmushi in her hand, behind her the three musketeers and the Guardians in Sulong also . she continues: "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH TO MY FRIENDS"

End of chapter.

That was for the introduction. Now I will just give small hint here and there I won't detail the rest like that:

New chapter
- The Marine are now in a pinch.. Saturn is angry..
- There is a discussion.. then he demands to his fleet to back off "tell Lucci to stop the attack"
- The strawhats are Free at last, they are happy
- A strike of lighting appears on the ship, its Carrot, "GARCHU LUFFYYYYYYY" she goes straight for luffy who is projeted in a wall
- Their is a reunion, the strawhat are happy to see Carrot
- "Carrot, why are you here ?"
- "Hm... I think I made a mistake" she say while laughing.
- The strawhats arrive nearby the ship of the mink...
- Everyone has a grim face.. Everyone looks depressed
- "What is happening Carrot ?" says Nami
- "uh.."
- The group arrive at the mokomo dukedom.. but nothing has changed.. They arrive in front of what is the entrance to the city..
- The mink depressed.. start speaking while opening the door.. "Please...."
- the scene is surreal, there is fire everywhere, building are starting to fall down, road are smelly, its chaos
- THe minks continues while all crying "HELP USSSSSS"
- Carrot has an embarrassed smile to the readers "hahaha"

End of Chapter

- The strawhats question Carrot about Zunisha, she tells them that at one point, she started to hear him (flashback)
- Carrot tells them that he lead her to something else
- Carrot leads the group toward a huge entrance below the giant whale
- There is a poneglyph inside
- Robin reads it, it about a group of 14 individual who are defeated by a strong ennemy
- The crew starts helping the villagers when a ship fall from the sky
- Its the News Morgan's ship.
End of Chapter
- Vivi and the strawhats reunite
- Flashback, we understand that Vivi took over the ship to go to the localization of the dendenmushi and crashed
- Vivi understand the situation of the village and take over the lead of the reperations
- In a single day everything is shining like a cartoon book
- Carrot is amazed of what Vivi accomplished "you have so much confidence" she says to Vivi.
- The strawhat explain that Zunisha will escort them to Elbaf
- Morgan escapes

Here as you can see I planted shadowings and therefore setup Carrot to become something more. The entire reason of showing her lack of capacity was to setup a foundamental flaw that we can use later, Carrot lack confidence. We will understand later that her fight with Perospero completely shattered her, she is now afraid of taking part in a fight, unless she goes into Sulong. This will create a funny dynamic, a bit like Usopp with Sogeking. We can imagine that because of Moargan's escape and the stop of the Marine, Carrot has now a bounty on her head, Carrot chooses that opportunity to go with the strawhat and especially VIvi who she admires.

Now we can at last explore her adventurous side of her.. we can imagine that her first enemy will be beaten not in Sulong but in base form.. this could create a good kickoff for a character arc.. Now for the character arc.. it could be a lot of things, we could for example dive into her past and the fact that she might not be a normal mink as she was found by Pedro at sea (this is a theory of mine) we could also explore how she can gain confidence through the straw hats.. there is a lot of way to do it.. We could also explore her potential link with the dawn.. etc.

As you can see, its pretty easy to create something with what Oda has already written for Carrot. Its all a question of creativity, imagine that I did that rapidely, Oda has months..

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Trust me, if I could, I would.. I throw you back to my presentation, you should understand why there is an issue.

You write so much about ifs and whats that you could spend this time writing your own story.