Powers & Abilities Don't fall for recency hype — Roger will always reign supreme
- Thread starter Charlotte Horchata
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Yeah, guys, I know: this Rocks D. Xebec guy is the new toy every kid is talking about and Roger is in fraud watch; but let’s be reasonable for once.
Let’s take a look at the way Roger has been portrayed both individually and in relation to Rocks’ own portrayal so far:
1) Shiki laughed at being confused as Rocks' follower by Harald and stated Rocks was a fool whose death wouldn't affect him in the least.
Meanwhile, let's see how Shiki treated Roger and what his reaction was to his capture and death:
I mean, do you imagine Shiki feeling this emotionally crushed by Rocks' death, which he allegedly wouldn't care about in the slightest...?
...Yeah, me neither.
2) Kaidou used Roger as prime example of the power that transcends any other and which you could conquer the world with.
Wait a minute... Conquering the world... wanting devil fruits to do so... What does this all sound like...?
...Oh, right! Rocks wanted to conquer the world and needed devil fruits to do so, yet here we are: his former cabin boy is praising Roger's haki while stating you can't conquer the world with devil fruits "because only haki transcend all".
No surprise Roger was clearly depicted in a more prominent way than Rocks in Kaidou's own imagination of his top...
No surprise Roger and Whitebeard were, coincidentally, the two pirates with the highest bounties in the history of piracy:
3) Remember Whitebeard, the World's Strongest Man? His hype consistently came from being comparable to Roger, never the other way around.
4) Speaking of Roger's legacy, let's talk about the legacy left by Rocks... had he left any.
5) Roger, the Pirate King: conqueror atop conquerors.
So hopefully, after these five points, you regain your senses and don't fall for recency hype.
But, if you still want to defend Rocks, let me just borrow his own "crewmate"'s words:
Let’s take a look at the way Roger has been portrayed both individually and in relation to Rocks’ own portrayal so far:
1) Shiki laughed at being confused as Rocks' follower by Harald and stated Rocks was a fool whose death wouldn't affect him in the least.
Meanwhile, let's see how Shiki treated Roger and what his reaction was to his capture and death:
I mean, do you imagine Shiki feeling this emotionally crushed by Rocks' death, which he allegedly wouldn't care about in the slightest...?
...Yeah, me neither.
2) Kaidou used Roger as prime example of the power that transcends any other and which you could conquer the world with.
Wait a minute... Conquering the world... wanting devil fruits to do so... What does this all sound like...?
...Oh, right! Rocks wanted to conquer the world and needed devil fruits to do so, yet here we are: his former cabin boy is praising Roger's haki while stating you can't conquer the world with devil fruits "because only haki transcend all".
No surprise Roger was clearly depicted in a more prominent way than Rocks in Kaidou's own imagination of his top...
No surprise Roger and Whitebeard were, coincidentally, the two pirates with the highest bounties in the history of piracy:
3) Remember Whitebeard, the World's Strongest Man? His hype consistently came from being comparable to Roger, never the other way around.
Imagine how strong you must be to serve as reference to hype the World's Strongest Man's own strength both when Whitebeard was hyped for the first time...
...and for the last time as a literal farewell after his death:
Whether at life or death, a whole generation of readers were capable of picturing Whitebeard's absolute strength solely because he could, at most, match Roger's own power. Never surpass it, never was Roger hyped for evenly matching Whitebeard but always the other way around. No surprise another Rocks' pirate treated Whitebeard as the king of their era only after Roger wasn't around anymore:
I mean, just imagine how much Whitebeard respected Roger that he even dedicated his final breath to prolong Roger's legacy, not his own, by assuring Teach he wasn't the man Roger was waiting for and by confirming to the world that the One Piece is real.
But, let's be honest here, maybe Whitebeard respected Rocks just as much...
...Well, I guess he didn't.
...and for the last time as a literal farewell after his death:
Whether at life or death, a whole generation of readers were capable of picturing Whitebeard's absolute strength solely because he could, at most, match Roger's own power. Never surpass it, never was Roger hyped for evenly matching Whitebeard but always the other way around. No surprise another Rocks' pirate treated Whitebeard as the king of their era only after Roger wasn't around anymore:
I mean, just imagine how much Whitebeard respected Roger that he even dedicated his final breath to prolong Roger's legacy, not his own, by assuring Teach he wasn't the man Roger was waiting for and by confirming to the world that the One Piece is real.
But, let's be honest here, maybe Whitebeard respected Rocks just as much...
...Well, I guess he didn't.
4) Speaking of Roger's legacy, let's talk about the legacy left by Rocks... had he left any.
One of the most consistent portrayals of the Pirates of Rocks that we've gotten so far is that they were dysfunctional and would fight and kill each other in such a hateful daily basis that it probably affected at how little legacy they left:
At the end of the day, nobody truly respected Rocks, a captain without a real crew and a leader with no followers. Rocks was so bad at managing such wild, powerful beasts that Whitebeard carried a trauma:
Whitebeard didn't want Oden aboard because Oden was a free man, a powerful man, a conqueror, and such breed wouldn't serve someone else according to his own experience as a Rocks pirate...
...but guess who mesmerized this same Oden; yes, you got it right:
Know who else was mesmerized by Roger and would follow him to death? These guys:
Two absolute powerhouses and conquerors on their own. Because, unlike Rocks, Roger could handle as loyal followers not one, not two, but minimum three top tier conquerors in the form of Rayleigh, Gaban and Oden.
Which leads us to the next and final point...
At the end of the day, nobody truly respected Rocks, a captain without a real crew and a leader with no followers. Rocks was so bad at managing such wild, powerful beasts that Whitebeard carried a trauma:
Whitebeard didn't want Oden aboard because Oden was a free man, a powerful man, a conqueror, and such breed wouldn't serve someone else according to his own experience as a Rocks pirate...
...but guess who mesmerized this same Oden; yes, you got it right:
Know who else was mesmerized by Roger and would follow him to death? These guys:
Two absolute powerhouses and conquerors on their own. Because, unlike Rocks, Roger could handle as loyal followers not one, not two, but minimum three top tier conquerors in the form of Rayleigh, Gaban and Oden.
Which leads us to the next and final point...
5) Roger, the Pirate King: conqueror atop conquerors.
"But 'Pirate King' is just a title!", many readers believe. And, to some extent, they're right: "Pirate King", as the title given by media, bears no meaning —but the way the piracy world conceives this notion is way, way more significant. But let's read Chinjao's words first:
This veteran explains it perfectly: the Pirate King is the supreme king who stands above the rest of the supreme kings, in other words: the conqueror atop conquerors. Not only does this reminds of Kaidou's portrayal of Roger of a supreme conqueror as prime example of the power that transcends all, but allows us to make some further connections regarding Roger's strength...
First, if Roger, per his status as king of all pirates, was the conqueror atop conquerors, then he had the strongest conqueror's haki; remember the whole conversation between Luffy and Chinjao revolved around having conqueror's haki and asking Luffy what kind of king he wanted to become. And guess what? The strength of your conqueror's can't be trained: it grows the stronger you become according to Rayleigh.
Which, if we follow some basic logic, leads us to an also basic conclusion: if Roger's conqueror's was above anyone else's, and if conqueror's can't be trained but grows stronger the stronger its user grows, then Roger grew stronger than anyone else...
...which isn't surprising because Luffy, the main character, the man who carries Roger's will, the man who wants to become the Pirate King just like Roger did, will also become stronger than anyone else:
But why does Luffy want to become the strongest person in the whole world? Well, as he well stated against Blueno, he wants to be the strongest so he can protect his friends. This comes from his childhood trauma of losing Sabo, as he felt he wasn't strong enough to prevent such loss:
But why is this so important? Because not only was Sabo's loss related to Ace and Luffy's weakness, but to the strength of the oppressors who killed him. The narrative here, as expressed through Ace, was that Sabo "died" because someone who was the opposite of freedom stole from him the chance to grasp freedom himself:
In other words, Luffy wanted to become the strongest in the world because he wanted to protect his loved ones from those who oppose freedom, so everybody, not only himself, would be capable of living free. This direct, explicit link between strength and freedom is foundational for Luffy's dream to become the Pirate King.
Because, remember, why does Luffy want to be come the Pirate King...?
And since Luffy wants to become the Pirate King because that's the freest person in the whole world, and considering Luffy links freedom to strength as he wants to become the strongest person so nobody who opposes freedom can do to his friends what they did to Sabo, what does all of this says about Roger's own strength?
Yeah, you know as well as I do.
This veteran explains it perfectly: the Pirate King is the supreme king who stands above the rest of the supreme kings, in other words: the conqueror atop conquerors. Not only does this reminds of Kaidou's portrayal of Roger of a supreme conqueror as prime example of the power that transcends all, but allows us to make some further connections regarding Roger's strength...
First, if Roger, per his status as king of all pirates, was the conqueror atop conquerors, then he had the strongest conqueror's haki; remember the whole conversation between Luffy and Chinjao revolved around having conqueror's haki and asking Luffy what kind of king he wanted to become. And guess what? The strength of your conqueror's can't be trained: it grows the stronger you become according to Rayleigh.
Which, if we follow some basic logic, leads us to an also basic conclusion: if Roger's conqueror's was above anyone else's, and if conqueror's can't be trained but grows stronger the stronger its user grows, then Roger grew stronger than anyone else...
...which isn't surprising because Luffy, the main character, the man who carries Roger's will, the man who wants to become the Pirate King just like Roger did, will also become stronger than anyone else:
But why does Luffy want to become the strongest person in the whole world? Well, as he well stated against Blueno, he wants to be the strongest so he can protect his friends. This comes from his childhood trauma of losing Sabo, as he felt he wasn't strong enough to prevent such loss:
But why is this so important? Because not only was Sabo's loss related to Ace and Luffy's weakness, but to the strength of the oppressors who killed him. The narrative here, as expressed through Ace, was that Sabo "died" because someone who was the opposite of freedom stole from him the chance to grasp freedom himself:
In other words, Luffy wanted to become the strongest in the world because he wanted to protect his loved ones from those who oppose freedom, so everybody, not only himself, would be capable of living free. This direct, explicit link between strength and freedom is foundational for Luffy's dream to become the Pirate King.
Because, remember, why does Luffy want to be come the Pirate King...?
And since Luffy wants to become the Pirate King because that's the freest person in the whole world, and considering Luffy links freedom to strength as he wants to become the strongest person so nobody who opposes freedom can do to his friends what they did to Sabo, what does all of this says about Roger's own strength?
Yeah, you know as well as I do.
So hopefully, after these five points, you regain your senses and don't fall for recency hype.
But, if you still want to defend Rocks, let me just borrow his own "crewmate"'s words:
His achievement is Finding JBs treasure
Buggy statement isnt truth since he didnt know anything about Rocks
And Rocks Goal is the harder than Finding Laugh Tale
Couldn't be more obvious, based on everything we know, Xebec's crew finally betrayed him during the God Valley fight which helped them kickstart their pirate careers, so Rocks was left in a 2v1 against Roger and Garp.
Unfortunately, you have to spoon feed some people otherwise they'll say that never happened.
Unfortunately, you have to spoon feed some people otherwise they'll say that never happened.
If the WSC beast incarnate Kaido himself agrees that Roger was the pinnacle of haki and transcended world with haki alone, then who are we to deny it.
Its like saying Mihawk didnt conquer the wirld. His achievement is finding Yoru.
Buggy didnt knew but what about Kaido, he stayed with rocks for a prolonged leriod of time and even had a tussle. Even Kaido acknowledge who is the greatest
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Its like saying Mihawk didnt conquer the wirld. His achievement is finding Yoru.
Buggy didnt knew but what about Kaido, he stayed with rocks for a prolonged leriod of time and even had a tussle. Even Kaido acknowledge who is the greatest
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The latest clash confirms absolutely nothing. Even hours long battles don't confirm equality in OP and we're sitting here doing power scaling based on a simple clash that happened when they're far from their primes. WB was the strongest man in the world when Garp was still around. The same guy that gets his hype from being equal to Roger.
That I agree with.
From the same place where you get he wouldn't lose from.
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That I agree with.
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From the same place where you get he wouldn't lose from.
People are just rightfully disappointed that the character they imagined in their head (Prime Roger) is not what they thought. Worst it is another character altogether (Xebec).
-Is Roger a fraud or weak? No.
-Is Roger the most influential pirate to the current setting ? Yes
-Is Roger the strongest character ever in One Piece ? No.
As I said in another thread, since the Oden’s flashback Oda has made a consistent effort to show that the PK’s title is not a strength title or something you win throught strength. Which is why :
-Roger begged WB for Oden
-He stole Big Mom’s poneglyph without fighting her head on
-Roger became PK when he was heavily weakened by his disease.
-Roger became a “failed Luffy” that came too early
-Oda introduced another strength ceiling for Luffy throught Joy Boy
And that’s okay. None of that diminished Roger as a character. He is still the first captain since Joyboy to reach Laugh Tale, he is still the first PK and he still the sole responsible for this era of piracy.
-Is Roger a fraud or weak? No.
-Is Roger the most influential pirate to the current setting ? Yes
-Is Roger the strongest character ever in One Piece ? No.
As I said in another thread, since the Oden’s flashback Oda has made a consistent effort to show that the PK’s title is not a strength title or something you win throught strength. Which is why :
-Roger begged WB for Oden
-He stole Big Mom’s poneglyph without fighting her head on
-Roger became PK when he was heavily weakened by his disease.
-Roger became a “failed Luffy” that came too early
-Oda introduced another strength ceiling for Luffy throught Joy Boy
And that’s okay. None of that diminished Roger as a character. He is still the first captain since Joyboy to reach Laugh Tale, he is still the first PK and he still the sole responsible for this era of piracy.
While bounty doesn’t equal strength and bounty inflation is a real thing in the one piece world Roger and Whitebeard are still hyped up for having the highest bounties for pirates ever in the same chapter Xebec and the Rocks pirates are reveled
Also while it might sound goofy just like height scaling Roger and Whitebeard are both higher up when Kaido is questioning Luffy’s potential ceiling. We know they stronger than Oden and Shanks so…
Also while it might sound goofy just like height scaling Roger and Whitebeard are both higher up when Kaido is questioning Luffy’s potential ceiling. We know they stronger than Oden and Shanks so…
