Questions & Mysteries Explain to me this dear hypocrites

[HerreraIsBack]

he's not comparable because his other physical attributes are inferior to beside durability.

Durability and speed superior. He only lacks endurance and strength.

his busoshoku haki, devil fruit, and agility is also better king's. Future sight is his main way of fighting but that's not the only thing he has. Just like king's lineage is not everything he has.

Haki is debatable since Oda didn't portrayed King's haki very well. Actually I'd only with Kaido he gave such importance to haki. But if you go that way you will end up saying Katakuri also has better armament haki than Big Mom.

King's DF was shown to be superior. Katakuri's agility way inferior to King's.

And you are totally wrong. Future Sight is the only way Katakuri fights. Without it he is useless because we saw how he went down after a few hits. He wouldn't tank ACoC Shishi Sonson like King did at beginning of chapter 1035. And after that he tanked a couple more of ACoC attacks before going doing.

 

[Garp the Fist]

King is stronger than Queen
Garp is stronger than Sengoku
Ray is stronger than Gaban
Zoro is stronger than Sanji
Whitebeard is stronger than Shiki

Side by side scaling is garbage

 

[mmd]

Sanji is at minimum a high diff fight for Zoro and the bandana fandom can’t accept it

What is Sanji's number in your favorite characters?
13?
Zoro was number 14

 

[Killer#777]

Durability and speed superior. He only lacks endurance and strength.

speed is questionable but he also lacks in haki as well.

Haki is debatable since Oda didn't portrayed King's haki very well.

it really isn't king has shown no notable haki feats in none of his battles. King is very strong just from his lineage alone

But if you go that way you will end up saying Katakuri also has better armament haki than Big Mom.

not really big mom triumphs in busoshoku and haoshoku haki the only category katakuri has her beat in is kenbunshoku haki but overall her haki is just better by default.

King's DF was shown to be superior. Katakuri's agility way inferior to King's.

when I said his df is better I mean in term of utility. Agility for katakuri is right because how he avoided luffy snakeman's attacks while closing in the distance.

Future Sight is the only way Katakuri fights.

by that same logic king's lineage is his only way of zoro.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

it really isn't king has shown no notable haki feats in none of his battles. King is very strong just from his lineage alone

Similar can be said about Big Mom. Kizaru. Aokiji. Etc. His lineage strength it's his speed/durability, his attack power is due to him/his DF. He was strong enough to have Zoro stepping back while parrying his attacks. Same Zoro that blocked Hakai.

not really big mom triumphs in busoshoku and haoshoku haki the only category katakuri has her beat in is kenbunshoku haki but overall her haki is just better by default.

Based on what?

when I said his df is better I mean in term of utility. Agility for katakuri is right because how he avoided luffy snakeman's attacks while closing in the distance.

Fuck utility. King's DF makes him stronger than Katakuri's DF makes him stronger. Way better to have King's DF than Katakuri's. Katakuri avoiding Snakeman's attack is not agility is his FS. The whole fight was about that.

by that same logic king's lineage is his only way of zoro.

Hahahaha. What?

 

[Killer#777]

Similar can be said about Big Mom

not really page one and blocking the damn punk are a few examples.

Kizaru. Aokiji.

kizaru and aokiji literally block a shockwave from whitebeard back in marineford.

He was strong enough to have Zoro stepping back while parrying his attacks. Same Zoro that blocked Hakai.

the same hakai broke a few of his bones? That's a terrible example. Also king overpowering zoro is not shocking at all he is physical stronger than zoro.

Based on what?

the feat that she did to page one and her blocking kid's railgun. Katakuri hasn't displayed any haki feat nearly as good as those two.

Fuck utility. King's DF makes him stronger than Katakuri's DF makes him stronger.

by doing what exactly? Other than having higher toughness king hasn't display alot of versatility with his devil fruit plus he is not awakening.

Katakuri avoiding Snakeman's attack is not agility is his FS.

future sight is useless without quick movement.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

not really page one and blocking the damn punk are a few examples.

Page One was a one time only on rampage. There is no sign of her using haki to tank Damn Punk. She tanked not blocked.

kizaru and aokiji literally block a shockwave from whitebeard back in marineford.

Yea that's barrier haki. Same shit Zoro learned at Alabasta.

the same hakai broke a few of his bones? That's a terrible example. Also king overpowering zoro is not shocking at all he is physical stronger than zoro.

No not a terrible example. A combined attack from 2 Yonkos is for sure a good example. Anyone fully blocking it with no issue should be stronger than Kaido and Big Mom combined. Same Zoro overpowered Kaido in his Asura mode.

the feat that she did to page one and her blocking kid's railgun. Katakuri hasn't displayed any haki feat nearly as good as those two.

She used ACoC on Page One not armament. There is no sign of railgun being tanked (not blocked) with any kind of haki. Katakuri at least was hearting Luffy's hand when matching fists even in his G4 form. Big Mom and Kaido never did that even against base Luffy.

by doing what exactly? Other than having higher toughness king hasn't display alot of versatility with his devil fruit plus he is not awakening.

Every zoan boosts the user physical traits it was already said by Lucci. He can fly with his DF. He can attack with his beak like a laser beam that is fast and destructive. His wings can even be used for flying cuts stronger than Kaido's.

future sight is useless without quick movement.

No it is not because the whole point is to be a step ahead. That's why even Snakeman still couldn't hit Katakuri most of the time.

 

[Killer#777]

Page One was a one time only on rampage.

it still a haki feat that was displayed on panel whereas king hasn't shown any at all.

There is no sign of her using haki to tank Damn Punk. She tanked not blocked.

so the black sparks are just there for show is that what you are implying?

Yea that's barrier haki. Same shit Zoro learned at Alabasta.

yeah but the admirals are more efficient at it than zoro was.

A combined attack from 2 Yonkos is for sure a good example. Anyone fully blocking it with no issue should be stronger than Kaido and Big Mom combined.

that's the thing he wasn't stronger than both combine and he also had issues just from blocking a shockwave.

Same Zoro overpowered Kaido in his Asura mode.

yeah but he needed his stronger technique to do so.

She used ACoC on Page One not armament.

she use both actually .

here is no sign of railgun being tanked (not blocked) with any kind of haki.

yeah probably got that wrong but she was using haki while the damn punk attack her.

Katakuri at least was hearting Luffy's hand when matching fists even in his G4 form.

only the Snakeman variation of gear 4 boundman straight overpowered him.

Big Mom and Kaido never did that even against base Luffy.

kaido hurt luffy through his busoshoku haki hardening and big mom straight overpowered luffy through his ryou(haki) with a palm swipe.

Spoiler: kaido

Spoiler: big mom

Every zoan boosts the user physical traits it was already said by Lucci.

that all depends on the animal though.

He can fly with his DF.

king can already fly without it so it is redundant.

He can attack with his beak like a laser beam that is fast and destructive. His wings can even be used for flying cuts stronger than Kaido's.

maybe

No it is not because the whole point is to be a step ahead.

didn't luffy not still get tag by Kaido's thunder bagua despite using future sight?

That's why even Snakeman still couldn't hit Katakuri most of the time.

that's because katakuri has good agility.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

so the black sparks are just there for show is that what you are implying?

The lightning is only when someone is attacking with haki

that's the thing he wasn't stronger than both combine and he also had issues just from blocking a shockwave.

He was stronger than any other Supernova at Rooftop at the moment.

yeah but he needed his stronger technique to do so.

Anyway he isn't far from Kaido's strength if he can do that. And so is King.

she use both actually .

That's headcannon. We can't be sure about it. This panel implies that Nika was the first one Kaido ever saw combining conqueror and armament.

only the Snakeman variation of gear 4 boundman straight overpowered him.

This is tricky. We never saw a fist matching between boundman and Katakuri. Boundman punched and Katakuri simply blocked while being sent flying away because of the power. But Snakeman did similar thing. We also saw Katakuri doing the same with Boundman as well.

Spoiler

kaido hurt luffy through his busoshoku haki hardening and big mom straight overpowered luffy through his ryou(haki) with a palm swipe.

I'm talking about hurting Luffy's hand when matching fists like he did with Katakuri.

that all depends on the animal though.

Not at all. The statement is about zoan class of devil fruit. What you are probably talking is about carnivore zoans being more aggresive.

king can already fly without it so it is redundant.

I don't fully remember about it. I believe Zoro said he never used those wings to fly. We never saw Seraphims flying right. Not even Skypeans or Shadians. But we are comparing King's DF with Katakuri's anyway.

maybe

Maybe what? Lol. Those are things said/seen at manga.

didn't luffy not still get tag by Kaido's thunder bagua despite using future sight?

Yup. Because Kaido's is too fucking fast. Faster than Snakeman.

that's because katakuri has good agility.

Then why he got hit sometimes?

 

[grey matter]

Let it go bro, Queen isn't it. Dude was a bum.

You would be better off arguing that by EoS, Sanji will be close to Zoro in power, due to Rayleigh/Gaban comparison.

King and Queen had some rivalry, yes.
But Oda made it clear by the end of the arc that King was levels above him. Queen has zero arguments to place him above rooftop Zoro, while King ragrolled rooftop Zoro. Queen, when King wasn't there to listen (he would never hype up King in his presense lol), hyped up King as a God that Zoro was hopeless facing against.
There were even some Kaido/King parallels. Kaido choosing him as his RHM/first mate, calling him strong enough to be worthy of name "King", both having similar ultimate attacks (dragon with magma esque flames, obviously Kaido's bigger and stronger), both having flashbacks of each other when they lost, etc.

King has every single stat above Queen, whether it's attack power, AOE, speed, CQC or durability. King's durability completely shits on Queen (the one thing Queen is good at)

Current Sanji would mid-high diff Queen.
While depending on if King's flame on mode is retconned to invulnerability instead of giga durability, King has a shot to be above even current Zoro. And even otherwise (if advanced conqueror's can damage flame on mode), King would push current Zoro to a high diff.

There is only so much that side by side scaling can leech, when there is so much more context and feats aside from it.

 

[Killer#777]

The lightning is only when someone is attacking with haki

He was stronger than any other Supernova at Rooftop at the moment.

ap and haki wise he was better than most but most of the supernova on top of the skull were overall stronger.

anyway he isn't far from Kaido's strength if he can do that. And so is King.

way to ignore my point.

That's headcannon. We can't be sure about it.

it's literally on panel when she punch pageone in the neck.

This panel implies that Nika was the first one Kaido ever saw combining conqueror and armament.

except we the readers saw big mom do both. Oh and devil fruit ability kaido literally said that afterwards.

This is tricky. We never saw a fist matching between boundman and Katakuri. Boundman punched and Katakuri simply blocked while being sent flying away because of the power. But Snakeman did similar thing. We also saw Katakuri doing the same with Boundman as well.

that's due to the tensile force behind gear 4th attacks doflamingo mention this back in dressrosa.

I'm talking about hurting Luffy's hand when matching fists like he did with Katakuri.

he already hurt his arm just from physically blocking Kaido's club swings what difference would physically clashing with kaido make?

Not at all. The statement is about zoan class of devil fruit. What you are probably talking is about carnivore zoans being more aggresive.

not every animal the zoan user has increase someone physically strength.

But we are comparing King's DF with Katakuri's anyway.

yeah and the way katakuri uses his devil fruit offers more utility.

Yup. Because Kaido's is too fucking fast. Faster than Snakeman.

or luffy reaction is slow.

Then why he got hit sometimes?

by fighting in close combat.

 

[[No Name]]

Let it go bro, Queen isn't it. Dude was a bum.

You would be better off arguing that by EoS, Sanji will be close to Zoro in power, due to Rayleigh/Gaban comparison.

King and Queen had some rivalry, yes.
But Oda made it clear by the end of the arc that King was levels above him. Queen has zero arguments to place him above rooftop Zoro, while King ragrolled rooftop Zoro. Queen, when King wasn't there to listen (he would never hype up King in his presense lol), hyped up King as a God that Zoro was hopeless facing against.
There were even some Kaido/King parallels. Kaido choosing him as his RHM/first mate, calling him strong enough to be worthy of name "King", both having similar ultimate attacks (dragon with magma esque flames, obviously Kaido's bigger and stronger), both having flashbacks of each other when they lost, etc.

King has every single stat above Queen, whether it's attack power, AOE, speed, CQC or durability. King's durability completely shits on Queen (the one thing Queen is good at)

Current Sanji would mid-high diff Queen.
While depending on if King's flame on mode is retconned to invulnerability instead of giga durability, King has a shot to be above even current Zoro. And even otherwise (if advanced conqueror's can damage flame on mode), King would push current Zoro to a high diff.

There is only so much that side by side scaling can leech, when there is so much more context and feats aside from it.

You all miss the point.

You think this? Good, I expect you to have FS user Gaban above non confirmed advanced hakiis bumgoku then

 

[Necrohol]

Finally, someone with common sense. Zoro vs Sanji is, was and will always be an extreme diff fight.

 

[Cruxroux]

You think this? Good, I expect you to have FS user Gaban above non-confirmed advanced hakiis bumgoku then

If haki were the only known power confirmed in the verse.

We have DF too.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

Screaming is an attack.

ap and haki wise he was better than most but most of the supernova on top of the skull were overall stronger.

Keep lying to yourself. AP and Haki is all that matters. He was also the faster. At best Luffy had better endurance, maybe. But that's all.

way to ignore my point.

You the one ignoring mine. There is a clear correlation. What you are saying is basically we can't compare Luffy to Kaido because they are only equals when in G5.

it's literally on panel when she punch pageone in the neck.

The panel is she using ACoC and her hand being black. That's not necessarily Armament haki. We never saw ACoC without being black.

except we the readers saw big mom do both. Oh and devil fruit ability kaido literally said that afterwards.

It was never said she was doing both. And I really don't understand the final of that sentence.

that's due to the tensile force behind gear 4th attacks doflamingo mention this back in dressrosa.

And what this have to do with the fact Katakuri's haki hurts Luffy when matching fists?

he already hurt his arm just from physically blocking Kaido's club swings what difference would physically clashing with kaido make?

Yes it is different. Because when he gets ACoC he doesn't have such problem. Kaido's ACoC hurts Luffy's CoA but when matching ACoC it doesn't. Katakuri matched his CoA.

not every animal the zoan user has increase someone physically strength.

Show the panel

yeah and the way katakuri uses his devil fruit offers more utility.

Again fuck utility. Sheer strength is all that matters

or luffy reaction is slow.

We have almost 1200 chapters of One Piece proving this is wrong even before haki was ever introduced

by fighting in close combat.

Katakuri does it too and doesn't gets hit. Or at least way less than Kaido.

 

[grey matter]

You all miss the point.

You think this? Good, I expect you to have FS user Gaban above non confirmed advanced hakiis bumgoku then

You miss the point too.

There is only so much that side by side scaling can leech, when there is so much more context and feats aside from it.

We know little to nothing about all old legends except Whitebeard (whose on screen feats were when he was old and sick, hence an asterisk there too). Sengoku the least, dude is hard carries by portrayal cause his feats are pretty much non-existent out of all the old legends.
It is perfectly valid to use portrayal, when there is nothing else to definitively compare to.

However, when characters are fully fleshed out on screen, why wouldn't we use the entire context instead of just initial portrayal?? How is it reasonable to just pick just one aspect of comparison, when ignoring everything else?

The same is applicable to Kaido/BM too by the way.
They were initially portrayed to be very close in power, until more feats and context came along suggesting otherwise.

There is no "hypocrisy" here, our perception changes when more context, feats, portrayals come into picture. I think it's the logical thing to do.

 

[[No Name]]

Sengoku the least, dude is hard carries by portrayal cause his feats are pretty much non-existent out of all the old legends.

He has feats, shitty ones like failing to put down Luffy.

Also his portray is also sweating and hyping a sick WB and being shocked by his feats, it's clear he can't replicate those.

There is no "hypocrisy" here, our perception changes when more context, feats, portrayals come into picture. I think it's the logical thing to do.

It's the opposite, you have had this idea of Sengoku super equal to garp for years and you all didn't even expect gaban to be as strong as he is.
If Gaban had an other name and wasn't "number 3" you all would have pushed him to his actual strength, someone who in his old age can easily humiliate Zoro.