Le Fishe Thread Fodder Fist Ace

Shanks flat out called him "strong" bozo.


Hilarious how Luffy could touch seastone then.



This one scene where Ace equals Aokiji's named attack with his own, is better than Marco's entire career of abusing his Regen.
Hot water can melt Aokijis ice as we saw

Legit nothing special to see here.

A Yami BB victim aint worth the debate
 
Feats and portrayal of rooftop Zoro literally shits on Ace
The same Zoro was getting seriously fucked up by King who wasn't even full out and that's before enma started getting cranky

Ace can barely beat someone like Jozu at best.

He doesn't touch YC1
ZKKtards logic, Zolo did nothing on Rooftop, paper cut to toying Kaido and got his bones broken needed Mink Medicine to return. Zolo was weaker than Alber, Alber isn't doing shit to serious Kaido when Marco was soloing Alber+Queen for a long time and still didn't lose.

''Same'' logic:
Same Alber + Queen who got neg diff by Greenbull who is Aokiji's inferior.

Before making excuses about Alber being nerfed, Ace was nerfed same way, Garp was wondering if Ace was alive or not when he saw him in Impel Doan, yet still didn't get neg diff by Aokiji.

Ace didn't drink Mink Medicine in Marineford after got beaten to death by Teach. Rookie Ace fought Warlord Jinbe for 5 days then took a hit from WB and surprised WB after still staying conscious.
 
ZKKtards logic, Zolo did nothing on Rooftop, paper cut to toying Kaido and got his bones broken needed Mink Medicine to return. Zolo was weaker than Alber, Alber isn't doing shit to serious Kaido when Marco was soloing Alber+Queen for a long time and still didn't lose.

''Same'' logic:
Same Alber + Queen who got neg diff by Greenbull who is Aokiji's inferior.

Before making excuses about Alber being nerfed, Ace was nerfed same way, Garp was wondering if Ace was alive or not when he saw him in Impel Doan, yet still didn't get neg diff by Aokiji.

Ace didn't drink Mink Medicine in Marineford after got beaten to death by Teach. Rookie Ace fought Warlord Jinbe for 5 days then took a hit from WB and surprised WB after still staying conscious.
ace got negged by akainu lol
 
I see Moron cries again. :suresure:

1- Red dog specifically said he overpowered Nerfed Ace due to DF relationship advantage.

2- Nerfed Ace wasn't even damaged or paralyzed after the direct clash, he still moved faster than Red dog to shield Luffy. Which shows Red dog couldn't hit even Nerfed Ace without taking Luffy as hostage.

Even despite DF disadvantage, nerfed Ace wasn't negged you retarded clown.

Which again proves Ace > Alber.
 
I see Moron cries again. :suresure:

1- Red dog specifically said he overpowered Nerfed Ace due to DF relationship advantage.

2- Nerfed Ace wasn't even damaged or paralyzed after the clash, he still moved faster than Red dog to shield Luffy.

Even despite DF disadvantage, nerfed Ace wasn't negged you retarded clown.

Which again proves Ace > Alber.
You do know King got defeated by a Devil Fruit ability too right?
 
ZKKtards logic, Zolo did nothing on Rooftop, paper cut to toying Kaido
For starters, can you provide feats based on which Ace can replicate or surpass a similar level of damage?
And no it's still an impressive feat of AP.
In the battle with the scabbard's, Kaido emphasized that "there will be no more like Oden" and that the scabbard's attacks are "too shallow" which "don't even have enough power to open the old scar". This already sets a high standard for such a feat.

After Asura, Kaido was shaking and surprised/angry about the wound, asking if Zoro had used CoC.
Even though Zoro didn't get what he wanted Kaido says it's enough pointing to the scar.

So this feat is good both because of the portrayal it gives by referring to Oden and for actually recognizing heavy/deep damage.

got his bones broken needed Mink Medicine to return.
Yeah, after taking a part of Hakai to save Supernova on the roof. How exactly is that anti feat?
Especially in comparison to Ace.

Zolo was weaker than Alber, Alber isn't doing shit to serious Kaido when Marco was soloing Alber+Queen for a long time and still didn't lose.
1. That ABC logic is not an argument for belittling Zoro's feat. He may be weaker overall but in the AP section? No.
2. Marco could hold off King+Queen who used the minimum of their arsenal.
While still impressive, he didn't leave them any serious damage and left the fight due to his stamina limit.


''Same'' logic:
Same Alber + Queen who got neg diff by Greenbull who is Aokiji's inferior.

Before making excuses about Alber being nerfed, Ace was nerfed same way, Garp was wondering if Ace was alive or not when he saw him in Impel Doan, yet still didn't get neg diff by Aokiji.
1. You give the example of a fight part of which was off screen.
2. King can literally replicate this feat thanks to his flame that was hyped because of its similarity to magma.
Not to mention it's a single skirmish which doesn't speak to the level of strength as a whole.
3. King was in the worst condition due to the loss of the sword he used to conduct his "magma like" flame. He lost his wing which greatly reduced his mobility and his mental state was crap (which affects fighting ability as has been emphasized several times in the story) due to the defeat of Kaido with whom he had a close relationship and to whom he promised not to lose.

Unlike him, Ace still had his arsenal of attacks+motivation to fight for Luffy.

Ace didn't drink Mink Medicine in Marineford after got beaten to death by Teach. Rookie Ace fought Warlord Jinbe for 5 days then took a hit from WB and surprised WB after still staying conscious.
These feats are no better than taking part of Hakai and still fighting and then still being conscious after hit by a TB hybrid Kaido.
 
For starters, can you provide feats based on which Ace can replicate or surpass a similar level of damage?
And no it's still an impressive feat of AP.
In the battle with the scabbard's, Kaido emphasized that "there will be no more like Oden" and that the scabbard's attacks are "too shallow" which "don't even have enough power to open the old scar". This already sets a high standard for such a feat.

After Asura, Kaido was shaking and surprised/angry about the wound, asking if Zoro had used CoC.
Even though Zoro didn't get what he wanted Kaido says it's enough pointing to the scar.

So this feat is good both because of the portrayal it gives by referring to Oden and for actually recognizing heavy/deep damage.


Yeah, after taking a part of Hakai to save Supernova on the roof. How exactly is that anti feat?
Especially in comparison to Ace.


1. That ABC logic is not an argument for belittling Zoro's feat. He may be weaker overall but in the AP section? No.
2. Marco could hold off King+Queen who used the minimum of their arsenal.
While still impressive, he didn't leave them any serious damage and left the fight due to his stamina limit.



1. You give the example of a fight part of which was off screen.
2. King can literally replicate this feat thanks to his flame that was hyped because of its similarity to magma.
Not to mention it's a single skirmish which doesn't speak to the level of strength as a whole.
3. King was in the worst condition due to the loss of the sword he used to conduct his "magma like" flame. He lost his wing which greatly reduced his mobility and his mental state was crap (which affects fighting ability as has been emphasized several times in the story) due to the defeat of Kaido with whom he had a close relationship and to whom he promised not to lose.

Unlike him, Ace still had his arsenal of attacks+motivation to fight for Luffy.


These feats are no better than taking part of Hakai and still fighting and then still being conscious after hit by a TB hybrid Kaido.
Stop making up excuses for King
He had Queen and Gifters with him. That's a huge help

Ace fought alone vs Kuzan or Akainu
 
Stop making up excuses for King
He had Queen and Gifters with him. That's a huge help

Ace fought alone vs Kuzan or Akainu
1. It's no excuse to point out that King was in worse condition than Ace.
2. It was still a off screen fight where we were only shown the end. I don't see how that says Ace is better than King when he never once hurt a top tier fighter and when his only impressive feat can be replicate by King himself with his magma flame.
 
:choppawhat::choppawhat: do you think Pekoms>Who's Who as well?
We are talking about pre-TS? Post-TS Jinbei > pre-TS Jinbei > Jinbei who fought Ace

him fighting Jinbe equally a few years before MF pretty much confirms he's not veteran level lol. Unless you think Jinbe grew from veteran level to massively above Who's Who in his 40s?
Who’s Who was the equivalent of Lucci pre-TS + some Haki gains. WW is quite literally nothing special either

Ace was clearly supposed to be a powerful new world commander. He's no Caribou or Caesar. He's just a victim of dying before haki was fleshed out
He had no CoA Haki when it existed as early as Amazon island (which is around time when Ace fought BB) and over-reliant on his DF. He is a victim of powercreep. It’s that simple

Oda would never draw an Ulti matching an admirals attack...
Oda legitimately drew Ulti forcing Goofy to use G4 and survive a Yonko’s attack lmao. Ulti has an actual case of being better than WW considering how good Oda made her relative to WW
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
1. That ABC logic is not an argument for belittling Zoro's feat. He may be weaker overall but in the AP section? No.
2. Marco could hold off King+Queen who used the minimum of their arsenal.
While still impressive, he didn't leave them any serious damage and left the fight due to his stamina limit.
But isn't your argument for Ace being weaker than King/Marco also based on a similar ABC logic?
I agree that Ace doesn't have the feats/portrayal of Rooftop Zoro but the only reason you're gifting King/Marco superiority over Ace is also using Zoro, a third character who has nothing to do with how Ace stacks up against King/Marco.
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
We are talking about pre-TS? Post-TS Jinbei > pre-TS Jinbei > Jinbei who fought Ace
obviously. but Jinbe didn't grow from being stalemated by a "hakiless Pekoms victim" to being way above Pekoms in his 40s

Ulti has an actual case of being better than WW considering how good Oda made her relative to WW
not at all considering that WsW fought the stronger Straw Hat and had the highest bounty.
 
But isn't your argument for Ace being weaker than King/Marco also based on a similar ABC logic?
I agree that Ace doesn't have the feats/portrayal of Rooftop Zoro but the only reason you're gifting King/Marco superiority over Ace is also using Zoro, a third character who has nothing to do with how Ace stacks up against King/Marco.
Because Zoro is simply stronger than Ace in most stats
Physical strength?
Endurance?
Ap?
Speed?
Speed reaction?

And portrayal to

I know you think that Zoro would have beaten King even without AdCoC, but these panels predate Enma's whim:

I just want to know how Ace will beat King/Marco?
Because mostly I see speculation about parallels with Oden/Shiryu as 2nd division commanders(Kuzan being 10 clearly broke even that) or Ace-Yamato(2 years old who fought in base and handcuffs).

Of course we can talk about Ace's feats against Marco/King separately but it's obviously pointless considering Ace has almost none and his abilities are heavily countered by both of them.
 
obviously. but Jinbe didn't grow from being stalemated by a "hakiless Pekoms victim" to being way above Pekoms in his 40s
Pekoms actively went out to do missions for the BMP longer than Ace's piracy career. Has a Zoan that is claimed to be hard as diamond and we know Jozu's Diamond fruit made him beastly. And there's nothing to disprove that statement considering Pekoms has effectively been protected by his shell every single time from damage

Pekoms has enough sway with BM to convince her to spare Pedro's life who attempted to steal a Poneglyph. He is weaker than the "monsters" of BMP but still no scrub by any NW means


not at all considering that WsW fought the stronger Straw Hat and had the highest bounty.
Ulti literally fought Goofy who's the strongest SH and made him go G4 >>> anything WW has tried to do

Ulti didn't get beaten by Nami. She got beaten by BM and Zeus. Zeus did everything while Nami was left looking like a clueless idiot

Powercreep is simply the way of the course. If Ace survived up to post-TS he'd undoubtedly be Sabo's equal or higher. Sabo is effectively Ace 2.0
 
For starters, can you provide feats based on which Ace can replicate or surpass a similar level of damage?
And no it's still an impressive feat of AP.
In the battle with the scabbard's, Kaido emphasized that "there will be no more like Oden" and that the scabbard's attacks are "too shallow" which "don't even have enough power to open the old scar". This already sets a high standard for such a feat.

After Asura, Kaido was shaking and surprised/angry about the wound, asking if Zoro had used CoC.
Even though Zoro didn't get what he wanted Kaido says it's enough pointing to the scar.

So this feat is good both because of the portrayal it gives by referring to Oden and for actually recognizing heavy/deep damage.


Yeah, after taking a part of Hakai to save Supernova on the roof. How exactly is that anti feat?
Especially in comparison to Ace.


1. That ABC logic is not an argument for belittling Zoro's feat. He may be weaker overall but in the AP section? No.
2. Marco could hold off King+Queen who used the minimum of their arsenal.
While still impressive, he didn't leave them any serious damage and left the fight due to his stamina limit.



1. You give the example of a fight part of which was off screen.
2. King can literally replicate this feat thanks to his flame that was hyped because of its similarity to magma.
Not to mention it's a single skirmish which doesn't speak to the level of strength as a whole.
3. King was in the worst condition due to the loss of the sword he used to conduct his "magma like" flame. He lost his wing which greatly reduced his mobility and his mental state was crap (which affects fighting ability as has been emphasized several times in the story) due to the defeat of Kaido with whom he had a close relationship and to whom he promised not to lose.

Unlike him, Ace still had his arsenal of attacks+motivation to fight for Luffy.


These feats are no better than taking part of Hakai and still fighting and then still being conscious after hit by a TB hybrid Kaido.
Even Rookie Ace burned WB's hand and Warlord Jinbe admitted Rookie Ace surpassed his level.

Ace creates bigger island size AoE flames than Alber, and also damaged Yamato while Yamato defending with Haki when Ace was Rookie as well.



- Speed: Nerfed Ace moved faster than Red dog, and blocked Aokiji's sneak attack from behind again, when Ace was nerfed.

- Durability / Stamina: Ace after beaten to death and chained to Sea Stone for days, he fought in Marineford no problem, stopping attacks from Admirals and moving faster than Admirals, even as a Rookie, he fought Warlord Jinbe for 5 days then took an attack from WB and still kept fighting and surprised WB with his durability / stamina.

Ace simply has better feats and portrayal than Alber or RT Zolo.

Ace got hard powercrept

He is nothing but a Pekoms victim


Oda's new informations: Rookie Ace defeated another Warlord, and also stalemate Yamato.

Clown: pOwErCrEpT :suresure:
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
Because Zoro is simply stronger than Ace in most stats
Physical strength?
Endurance?
Ap?
Speed?
Speed reaction?

And portrayal to
Yeah. Not debating that.

I know you think that Zoro would have beaten King even without AdCoC, but these panels predate Enma's whim:
Which show Tiger Hunt being overpowered by King's named attack & Zoro struggling to damage King despite slashing him multiple times due to the Invulnerability. Oda was writing a story for the fight, he had to show Zoro struggle against that Invulnerability before he cracked it.

The difference is, I just dont use that to place Zoro beneath King, exactly like how I dont place Luffy or Lucci beneath Seraphim due to them not damaging the Flame On form.

I just want to know how Ace will beat King/Marco?
Because mostly I see speculation about parallels with Oden/Shiryu as 2nd division commanders(Kuzan being 10 clearly broke even that) or Ace-Yamato(2 years old who fought in base and handcuffs).

Of course we can talk about Ace's feats against Marco/King separately but it's obviously pointless considering Ace has almost none and his abilities are heavily countered by both of them
True, King/Marco have abilities which counter the Mera Mera. They can get a win with that, if they play their cards right.
But are they actually stronger than Ace?

When you look at Ace's portrayal, Marco's pales in comparision.
- He's got CoC, D. initial, was the 2nd Div Commander much like Oden or Shiryu or even Katakuri, the 2nd Charlotte son & the strongest BMP.
- Showed an Island sized ultimate technique, Defeated multiple Warlords, was invited to be one, stalemated Water Jinbe as a Rookie (considering IJ Sanji is above Jinbe, you can see how it places Commander Ace atleast in Sanji's general ballpark).
- Shanks called him "strong", Sengoku hyped his potential to become the next PK and he could clash with Aokiji & Akainu and only got fatally injured when he sacrificed himself to protect Luffy.

I don't have high opinions on Commanders with defensive abilities and are heavily reliant on it.
Marco f.ex., showed zero versatility outside of kicking.

I doubt Yamato's cuffs were seastone too - it was only revealed in the VCs & never in the main story, Luffy could touch them just fine when he broke them while Luffy didn't want to even touch Law's seastone cuffs in Dressrosa.







Seastone is indestructible, whereas Yamato's cuffs exploded too.
Against all of this in-story evidence, i think it is possible that the VCs were just wrong here.
 
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