Le Fishe Thread Fodder Fist Ace

Even Rookie Ace burned WB's hand
Even if we agree to use a novella not written by Oda this feat is very far from leaving a scar on Kaido.

Warlord Jinbe admitted Rookie Ace surpassed his level.
Surpassing Jinbei is not impressive when we're talking about feats and portrayal Rooftop Zoro.

Ace creates bigger island size AoE flames than Alber
Yes in AoE Ace is better but King can produce a Magma-like flame that is superior to normal fire. And the AoE that King has is enough to replicate the feat that Ace accomplished against Kuzan.

and also damaged Yamato while Yamato defending with Haki when Ace was Rookie as well.

Again, Ace damage base Yamato is nowhere near as impressive as rooftop Zoro AP feats.


- Speed: Nerfed Ace moved faster than Red dog, and blocked Aokiji's sneak attack from behind again, when Ace was nerfed.
1. Akainu has no impressive feats of attack speed or movement.
2. Aokiji's attack was noticed by Luffy and a random marine, and Ace even managed to utter a small sentence.
Yes it may be impressive but Zoro with a broken skeleton was able to face Kaido in CQC and beat him in a moment.

I don't want to see excuses about "playing Kaido" because
1. Kaido is noticeably higher level than Admirals.
2. As the story goes, the Admirals will show a lot more of their arsenal which will make the situation in MF look like they were holding back the whole time.
Even now we've learned that Kizaru has clones and Kuzan can replicate Garp's AdCoC punch.
3. Linlin already told Kaido to dodge Zoro's much weaker attack and he also dodged Luffy's attack.

- Durability / Stamina: Ace after beaten to death and chained to Sea Stone for days, he fought in Marineford no problem, stopping attacks from Admirals and moving faster than Admirals, even as a Rookie, he fought Warlord Jinbe for 5 days then took an attack from WB and still kept fighting and surprised WB with his durability / stamina.
Zoro took part of an island-sized attack from two Prime Yonko that should have finished off most of the SN if not all of them.

He then proceeded to fight with a broken skeleton from which Law who is a doctor was shocked.

And in this state he was also able to perform the feats against Kaido that I have already mentioned.

But also half-dead, he took AdCoC TB and remained conscious.

Just to summarize:
- Zoro took a portion of an island-sized attack from two characters who are decently stronger than Yami Teach or Admirals individually let alone together.

- He then proceeded to fight with a broken skeleton and was able to accomplish feats against Kaido in that state.

- Even after taking AdCoC TB from the hybrid Kaido, he remained conscious.

Even if I can agree that Ace can fight LONGER given the feats, but in terms of who can take more damage and especially heavy damage Zoro is clearly ahead by a wide margin.
 
Even if we agree to use a novella not written by Oda this feat is very far from leaving a scar on Kaido.


Surpassing Jinbei is not impressive when we're talking about feats and portrayal Rooftop Zoro.


Yes in AoE Ace is better but King can produce a Magma-like flame that is superior to normal fire. And the AoE that King has is enough to replicate the feat that Ace accomplished against Kuzan.


Again, Ace damage base Yamato is nowhere near as impressive as rooftop Zoro AP feats.



1. Akainu has no impressive feats of attack speed or movement.
2. Aokiji's attack was noticed by Luffy and a random marine, and Ace even managed to utter a small sentence.
Yes it may be impressive but Zoro with a broken skeleton was able to face Kaido in CQC and beat him in a moment.

I don't want to see excuses about "playing Kaido" because
1. Kaido is noticeably higher level than Admirals.
2. As the story goes, the Admirals will show a lot more of their arsenal which will make the situation in MF look like they were holding back the whole time.
Even now we've learned that Kizaru has clones and Kuzan can replicate Garp's AdCoC punch.
3. Linlin already told Kaido to dodge Zoro's much weaker attack and he also dodged Luffy's attack.


Zoro took part of an island-sized attack from two Prime Yonko that should have finished off most of the SN if not all of them.

He then proceeded to fight with a broken skeleton from which Law who is a doctor was shocked.

And in this state he was also able to perform the feats against Kaido that I have already mentioned.

But also half-dead, he took AdCoC TB and remained conscious.

Just to summarize:
- Zoro took a portion of an island-sized attack from two characters who are decently stronger than Yami Teach or Admirals individually let alone together.

- He then proceeded to fight with a broken skeleton and was able to accomplish feats against Kaido in that state.

- Even after taking AdCoC TB from the hybrid Kaido, he remained conscious.

Even if I can agree that Ace can fight LONGER given the feats, but in terms of who can take more damage and especially heavy damage Zoro is clearly ahead by a wide margin.
All those feats that surpassing Warlord Jinbe, burning WB, and beating Warlord, damaging Yamato etc Ace did it while being Rookie, Ace grows much stronger thats why he managed to fight in Marineford despite being nerfed as he was already more powerful than before. Rookie Ace isn't stronger than RT Zolo or Alber, but YC Ace is as he grow more powerful. Sengoku also know this that he said Ace was going to be PK level if they let him go around, Ace grow much stronger between being a Rookie to being YC.

Thats why Red dog only says he beat Ace due to special DF advantage despite Ace was nerfed a lot, imagine if Ace didn't have DF disadvantage, Red dog couldn't do that to even Nerfed Ace, not due to Haki or physical difference, Red dog just says DF advantage vs Nerfed Ace.

Aokiji couldn't take down a Nerfed Ace, thats a crazy feat.

Alber or Zolo etc, doesn't have Ace's power potential.

Zolo just delaying an attack for seconds and getting 30 of his bones broken is not impressive as attack is not even stopped, and Zolo is only one who was defeated in Rooftop as a result needed Mink Medicine, but copium ZKKclowns think it is impressive to be the only one who lost, thats why you keep wanking Zolo like a clown but then his ass gets whooped by Alber who was weaker than Marco lmao, thats a reality check for you but you still wank RT Zolo and thus the guy whooped his ass Alber, based on your imaginary RT Zolo level, Alber should be Emperor level, but Alber is weaker than Marco, so cut the crap lmao.
 
All those feats that surpassing Warlord Jinbe, burning WB, and beating Warlord, damaging Yamato etc Ace did it while being Rookie, Ace grows much stronger thats why he managed to fight in Marineford despite being nerfed as he was already more powerful than before. Rookie Ace isn't stronger than RT Zolo or Alber, but YC Ace is as he grow more powerful. Sengoku also know this that he said Ace was going to be PK level if they let him go around, Ace grow much stronger between being a Rookie to being YC.

Thats why Red dog only says he beat Ace due to special DF advantage despite Ace was nerfed a lot, imagine if Ace didn't have DF disadvantage, Red dog couldn't do that to even Nerfed Ace, not due to Haki or physical difference, Red dog just says DF advantage vs Nerfed Ace.

Aokiji couldn't take down a Nerfed Ace, thats a crazy feat.

Alber or Zolo etc, doesn't have Ace's power potential.

Zolo just delaying an attack for seconds and getting 30 of his bones broken is not impressive as attack is not even stopped, and Zolo is only one who was defeated in Rooftop as a result needed Mink Medicine, but copium ZKKclowns think it is impressive to be the only one who lost, thats why you keep wanking Zolo like a clown but then his ass gets whooped by Alber who was weaker than Marco lmao, thats a reality check for you but you still wank RT Zolo and thus the guy whooped his ass Alber, based on your imaginary RT Zolo level, Alber should be Emperor level, but Alber is weaker than Marco, so cut the crap lmao.
Erkan come back when you have actual feats and arguments to justify your position instead of making up shit like "Ace has gotten strong enough to be above RT Zolo" when there are no feats for that.

And also it's my fault that I tried to talk to you like a human being when your retarded ass went to insults on the spot.

Let those who have the will to tolerate your degenerate verbal diarrhea entertain you i guess.
:kayneshrug:
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Which show Tiger Hunt being overpowered by King's named attack & Zoro struggling to damage King despite slashing him multiple times due to the Invulnerability. Oda was writing a story for the fight, he had to show Zoro struggle against that Invulnerability before he cracked it.
A few nuances here.
1. King's wind slashes sent Zoro flying and he was able to not only fight on equal footing in CQC but also overwhelm Zoro in that aspect.
Only when Zoro was able to exudes a large amount of CoA was he able to dominate King in CQC and in combat in general.
2. King according to Zoro started actively blocking when he took damage from AdCoC's attacks. King would dodge/block some of the attacks he got before Zoro got KoH so this scenario would change a bit anyway.



The difference is, I just dont use that to place Zoro beneath King, exactly like how I dont place Luffy or Lucci beneath Seraphim due to them not damaging the Flame On form.
Not really agree.
Seraphim compared to King has shitty fighting skills considering what they both could do to Zoro.
There's a difference between a punching bag and a fighter who can compete and even outclass the other.
As for Lucci he is simply inferior to King.



True, King/Marco have abilities which counter the Mera Mera. They can get a win with that, if they play their cards right.
But are they actually stronger than Ace?
By feats? I'd say definitely yes.


When you look at Ace's portrayal, Marco's pales in comparision.
- He's got CoC, D. initial
I can agree that this indicates a character's greater importance/potential, but not necessarily superiority over another in a particular time period.
IMO Feats despite the problems this metric has is more objective than basic CoC, initial D, etc.

was the 2nd Div Commander much like Oden or Shiryu or even Katakuri, the 2nd Charlotte son & the strongest BMP.
It's not bad for speculation just like height Shanks/Mihawk or Admirals but just broken by the fact that Kuzan is now a 10 commander. But not only that Marco was WB's right hand man and arguably the brightest WBP in MF besides WB himself. Plus he was also seen as the Captain of the remaining WBP who could possibly beat Teach and his team and take Yonko's place.

By comparison neither young Marco or any of those WBP's nor Burgess nor Perospero are RHM's or have gotten/are getting as much attention and feats as Marco.
No one has a problem putting Shiryu(at least befor Kuzan)/Oden/Kata above the rest of the team because it's obvious but Ace is not in the same situation.

- Showed an Island sized ultimate technique, Defeated multiple Warlords, was invited to be one, stalemated Water Jinbe as a Rookie (considering IJ Sanji is above Jinbe, you can see how it places Commander Ace atleast in Sanji's general ballpark).
- Shanks called him "strong", Sengoku hyped his potential to become the next PK and he could clash with Aokiji & Akainu and only got fatally injured when he sacrificed himself to protect Luffy.
1. that Ace is stronger on offense is likely, but specifically against Marco? It's useless because of the phoenix's fire counter abilities.
It's also largely useless against King.
2. Ace wins over warlords are not impressive when we're talking about YC1.
At least Jinbei and some noobie are no stronger than these guys.I think we can surely agree on that.
3. I agree that Ace's potential was insane but that's what potential is. That doesn't mean he was even remotely as strong at the time and I think we can also definitely agree on that even if we put him at YC+ level.
4. Yes Shanks called him strong but he also repeatedly asked Marco to join his team and also implied that BM had a high opinion of him when she rebuked him for helping SHP. Ace is not the only commander from WBP who getting special treatment from Yonko.


I don't have high opinions on Commanders with defensive abilities and are heavily reliant on it.
Marco f.ex., showed zero versatility outside of kicking.
Against top tiers yes, but against Ace?
I think attacks that can hurt and send someone like Queen flying are powerful enough to damage Ace.

I doubt Yamato's cuffs were seastone too - it was only revealed in the VCs & never in the main story, Luffy could touch them just fine when he broke them while Luffy didn't want to even touch Law's seastone cuffs in Dressrosa.







Seastone is indestructible, whereas Yamato's cuffs exploded too.
Against all of this in-story evidence, i think it is possible that the VCs were just wrong here.
Agree but it still base Yamato
I don't find it's impressive at least feat wise when we talking about fighting someone like Marco/King
 
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TheKnightOfTheSea

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Ace is at least commander level

unless you think Jinbe who's in his 40s went from fodder to being noticably stronger than Who's Who over the time skip lol
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

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I don't see how. Ace and jimbei met far before we were introduced to ace. Just like Shanks and mihawk, we don't know their progress apart
They met a few years before the start of the series when Jinbe was in his middle age. The Jinbe who fought Ave isn't much weaker than the Jinbe that mogged WsW

Ace would also grow stronger obviously because of his age and his potential
 
They met a few years before the start of the series when Jinbe was in his middle age. The Jinbe who fought Ave isn't much weaker than the Jinbe that mogged WsW

Ace would also grow stronger obviously because of his age and his potential
Disagreed. The jimbei who fought ace didn't go on the countless adventure and travels that jimbei did after meeting ace. Do you think jimbei is going to stay at the same place for the rest of the story? He also didn't face down big moms crew, big mom herself, and fight who's who at the same strength. You're just asserting something with no proof.
 
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