Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced
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1) I agree
2) Can't agree not cuz I don't believe it but cuz I think there's something more than simply this.
Ryuma fought several years a protected all the country and then his sword grow to a Kokuto.
If Zoro will make his swords black then it would happen even after EoS...or more .
Which I defo believe will not happen cuz it will happen earlier.
2) Can't agree not cuz I don't believe it but cuz I think there's something more than simply this.
Ryuma fought several years a protected all the country and then his sword grow to a Kokuto.
If Zoro will make his swords black then it would happen even after EoS...or more .
Which I defo believe will not happen cuz it will happen earlier.
That is easy to debunk:
Now for using buble to not damage Monet that is well stretching logic.
Easier would be to use one of the other two swords.
And remember this is not Naruto with Chakra.
Haki does not store and is infinite into an object that would be bad writing.
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That is easy to debunk:
Easier would be to use one of the other two swords.
And remember this is not Naruto with Chakra.
Haki does not store and is infinite into an object that would be bad writing.
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It's debatable.
The black blade would have traces of haki imbued into it so the sword should be able to cut it. So one can argue it will
However, every person has haki/will power (except CoC) but only some awakens it. The concept of black blade builds on " to become one with the sword" that is to have your will over the sword - to cut what you want to and not cut what you want to. So it all comes down to swordsmen will.
I explained you the process which manga explicitly states it.
As far as Zoro is concerned then you have to understand that he was taught by Koushirou the basic of flow of haki which he unlocked in alabasta. Now, what unlocking in such circumstances mean that one has it but yet to realize it (this was stated by Hyo to Luffy when he broke the collar subconsciously).
Zoro also learnt how to make blades black during ts and we have evidence that he fought not only with those creatures over there but also with Mihawk to train.
That's numerous battles in a way practicing flow of haki. Zoro is already on path to make blade black. His controlling enma so early imply his control over flow of haki (along with practice with Wado). That's why the chapter 955 gave hint that Zoro will make enma black
The black blade would have traces of haki imbued into it so the sword should be able to cut it. So one can argue it will
However, every person has haki/will power (except CoC) but only some awakens it. The concept of black blade builds on " to become one with the sword" that is to have your will over the sword - to cut what you want to and not cut what you want to. So it all comes down to swordsmen will.
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I explained you the process which manga explicitly states it.
As far as Zoro is concerned then you have to understand that he was taught by Koushirou the basic of flow of haki which he unlocked in alabasta. Now, what unlocking in such circumstances mean that one has it but yet to realize it (this was stated by Hyo to Luffy when he broke the collar subconsciously).
Zoro also learnt how to make blades black during ts and we have evidence that he fought not only with those creatures over there but also with Mihawk to train.
That's numerous battles in a way practicing flow of haki. Zoro is already on path to make blade black. His controlling enma so early imply his control over flow of haki (along with practice with Wado). That's why the chapter 955 gave hint that Zoro will make enma black
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I didn't forget it. The point you made is related to why he tamed enma quickly but one cannot deny the clouds around it and how easily he took all ryuo back which inherently reflect his control over ryuo. Until you have mastery over haki to that degree, you cannot take ryuo back from a sword which is basically can drain you of ryuo
I agree with the most points of your post.
I think the last stage of a swordman using advanced CoA, we will see it soon, at least I hope it.
Here the system of CoA in my opinion:
Invisible Haki(Boo and Tashigi)>Black Hardening CoA(Luffy and many other high tiers using it)>Advanced CoA with shockwave and invisible armor(flow of haki as a swordman using it)>Advanced CoA Penetration/ damage a object within
To use the advanced CoA you need strong Black hardening, Luffy and Hyo proof it in the last act. The problem of this was that we see advanced CoA before we enter the TS and back then Oda don´t draw black hardening.
The question here will be how the advanced CoA form will looks like when swordman using that haki lvl, I mean about the damage a object within or the invibile armor.
I think the last stage of a swordman using advanced CoA, we will see it soon, at least I hope it.
Here the system of CoA in my opinion:
Invisible Haki(Boo and Tashigi)>Black Hardening CoA(Luffy and many other high tiers using it)>Advanced CoA with shockwave and invisible armor(flow of haki as a swordman using it)>Advanced CoA Penetration/ damage a object within
To use the advanced CoA you need strong Black hardening, Luffy and Hyo proof it in the last act. The problem of this was that we see advanced CoA before we enter the TS and back then Oda don´t draw black hardening.
The question here will be how the advanced CoA form will looks like when swordman using that haki lvl, I mean about the damage a object within or the invibile armor.
This thread would be basic framework which I build on the basis of what we know so far. I will keep on modifying it as new information will drop.
See, your reasoning is correct but i see it in slightly different manner.
Basic CoA :invisible and hardening
Advanced CoA : deflection, Shockwave and ability to cut anything yet nothing
Highly advanced CoA - I used this term instead of penetration because Hyo referred so. Now your reasoning regarding penetration is right as haki has to penetrate withing object to destroy it from within.
However, the same can be infer in case of blackblade. Haki has to penetrate within sword consistently to change the nature of the sword permanently that is making it black forever.
In short, penetration will either break the object or will remake the object (sword) - its just that remaking can only happen after consistent and gradual use in many battles.
Also key to both of this process is that change that will happen after penetration would be permanent.
See, your reasoning is correct but i see it in slightly different manner.
Basic CoA :invisible and hardening
Advanced CoA : deflection, Shockwave and ability to cut anything yet nothing
Highly advanced CoA - I used this term instead of penetration because Hyo referred so. Now your reasoning regarding penetration is right as haki has to penetrate withing object to destroy it from within.
However, the same can be infer in case of blackblade. Haki has to penetrate within sword consistently to change the nature of the sword permanently that is making it black forever.
In short, penetration will either break the object or will remake the object (sword) - its just that remaking can only happen after consistent and gradual use in many battles.
Also key to both of this process is that change that will happen after penetration would be permanent.
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Haki is a power that comes from will power and spirit. In wano, it's called ryuo. There are three types of haki (CoO, CoA and CoC) or one can say haki gives you three types of abilities. As one becomes proficient in any type of haki, ability given by that type of haki will also become advanced.
For example, Katakuri has Future sight, after being proficient in observation haki.
As both, advanced and basic abilities comes from same source, that is will power, they all are generally referred as haki/Ryuo
Now, let's talk about basic and advanced usage of CoA.(please read panels carefully). I will be explaining the concept through Luffy and Zoro.
Basic color of Armament gives you ability to hit logia and coat your body part with armament /koka.
In wano, Luffy called koka, coating of body with armament, a basic ability and showed desire to learn advanced ability(deflection/Shockwave ) as shown by Rayleigh.
Hyo after noticing what Luffy is trying to learn (advanced CoA:deflection) says that in wano they have a similar ability through which a swordsman can cut anything yet nothing(panel is given above) -that is he can cut steel if he desires or will not cut even a paper, if he doesn't desire.
He went on to demonstrate this ability by deflecting a gifter.
So advanced usage of CoA = defection/Shockwave and ability to cut anything yet nothing.
Now, let's move on to more interesting part.
Zoro indeed has unlocked ability to cut anything yet nothing in alabasta as he was taught by kuina father who apparently belongs to Wano and so is Zoro who is shimotsuki. He did so under extreme situation but just didn't realize it to have full grasp until TS where Mihawk taught him how to make blade black.
Another definitive proof of both Zoro and Luffy having advanced usage of CoA is explain below
Now, the last part - highly advanced usage of Armament or as some called penetration.
Hyo mentioned that there is much more advanced version of CoA which allows user to damage object from within after Luffy broke the collar without making it explode.
So yes, what Luffy end up learning is much more advanced version of CoA.
However, for a swordsman this ability seem to be in parallel with making blade black which Zoro has yet to do and for that he needs to become one with the sword.
Which Mihawk taught him but he is yet to do so
The black blade has been equated to breaking objects from within on the basis of inference drawn from the above panels.
Learning the flow of haki gives ability to cut anything yet nothing and ability of defection.
As Luffy practiced this, he instead of deflection, end up destroying collar from within. One can imply, that he infused his Haki into the collar, altered it properties to destroy it from within(penetration and destruction)
However, the same concept is inherent in making blade black. Through consistent use of flow of haki into blades through countless battles, the nature of the blade will permanently change making it harder and black.(penetration and modification)
So both breaking collar and making blade black is based on similar concept of flowing haki and changing nature of the object from within permanently, with difference lying in that former breaks it from within and other strengthens it from within. Thus both being placed as highly advanced usage of CoA.
So in short,
Basic CoA(Hitting Logia, coating/koka) - - - - >advanced CoA [deflection/shockwave; ability to cut anything yet nothing ; haki imbued slashes (it's also based on flow of haki into slashes from user)] - - - - - - >highly advanced usage of CoA (destroying objects from within and making blade black)
If you have any argument against this, please substantiate it with facts and not your headcannon. Lol
Thank you for reading this. Please post your opinion.
Some tags
@Rivaille @Bogard @BossYimz
@Sentinel @hades @TheAncientCenturion @HA001 @Cyrus the Cactus @nik87 @Rukusho
For example, Katakuri has Future sight, after being proficient in observation haki.
As both, advanced and basic abilities comes from same source, that is will power, they all are generally referred as haki/Ryuo
Now, let's talk about basic and advanced usage of CoA.(please read panels carefully). I will be explaining the concept through Luffy and Zoro.
Basic color of Armament gives you ability to hit logia and coat your body part with armament /koka.
In wano, Luffy called koka, coating of body with armament, a basic ability and showed desire to learn advanced ability(deflection/Shockwave ) as shown by Rayleigh.
Luffy calling koka - basic
In panel below, Luffy calls deflection advanced
In panel below, Hyo said that deflection ability Luffy is trying to learn is similar to ability to cut anything yet nothing.
In panel below, Luffy calls deflection advanced
In panel below, Hyo said that deflection ability Luffy is trying to learn is similar to ability to cut anything yet nothing.
Hyo after noticing what Luffy is trying to learn (advanced CoA:deflection) says that in wano they have a similar ability through which a swordsman can cut anything yet nothing(panel is given above) -that is he can cut steel if he desires or will not cut even a paper, if he doesn't desire.
He went on to demonstrate this ability by deflecting a gifter.
Now, let's move on to more interesting part.
Zoro indeed has unlocked ability to cut anything yet nothing in alabasta as he was taught by kuina father who apparently belongs to Wano and so is Zoro who is shimotsuki. He did so under extreme situation but just didn't realize it to have full grasp until TS where Mihawk taught him how to make blade black.
This panel shows Zoro sensing the breathe of non living things and mention ability to cut anything yet nothing.
The panel below shows that Zoro dodged all falling stones as if he knew where they will fall(he was feeling the breathe of stones)
The panel below shows that Zoro even figured out under which stone his sword is buried.
And, in the panel below he demonstrated ability to cut anything yet nothing - he didn't cut leaves because he didn't desire but cut the stone because he desired. His swords understood his will. (similar to what Hyo said)
The panel below shows that Zoro dodged all falling stones as if he knew where they will fall(he was feeling the breathe of stones)
The panel below shows that Zoro even figured out under which stone his sword is buried.
And, in the panel below he demonstrated ability to cut anything yet nothing - he didn't cut leaves because he didn't desire but cut the stone because he desired. His swords understood his will. (similar to what Hyo said)
Another definitive proof of both Zoro and Luffy having advanced usage of CoA is explain below
As I said earlier, hyuo was teaching Luffy advanced usage of ryuo/haki - that is focusing on making haki flow.
In above panel, notice Luffy's hand - it is surrounded by clouds. Now where we saw similar phenomenon recently
Did you guys notice the similar clouds around Zoro? But what's interesting is Zoro immediately tamed enma implying his control over flow of haki (the concept on which Hyo was teaching Luffy advanced version). He did so because he already been taught such ability, first by kuina father and then during TS by Mihawk.
In above panel, notice Luffy's hand - it is surrounded by clouds. Now where we saw similar phenomenon recently
Did you guys notice the similar clouds around Zoro? But what's interesting is Zoro immediately tamed enma implying his control over flow of haki (the concept on which Hyo was teaching Luffy advanced version). He did so because he already been taught such ability, first by kuina father and then during TS by Mihawk.
Now, the last part - highly advanced usage of Armament or as some called penetration.
Hyo mentioned that there is much more advanced version of CoA which allows user to damage object from within after Luffy broke the collar without making it explode.
So yes, what Luffy end up learning is much more advanced version of CoA.
However, for a swordsman this ability seem to be in parallel with making blade black which Zoro has yet to do and for that he needs to become one with the sword.
Which Mihawk taught him but he is yet to do so
The black blade has been equated to breaking objects from within on the basis of inference drawn from the above panels.
Learning the flow of haki gives ability to cut anything yet nothing and ability of defection.
As Luffy practiced this, he instead of deflection, end up destroying collar from within. One can imply, that he infused his Haki into the collar, altered it properties to destroy it from within(penetration and destruction)
However, the same concept is inherent in making blade black. Through consistent use of flow of haki into blades through countless battles, the nature of the blade will permanently change making it harder and black.(penetration and modification)
So both breaking collar and making blade black is based on similar concept of flowing haki and changing nature of the object from within permanently, with difference lying in that former breaks it from within and other strengthens it from within. Thus both being placed as highly advanced usage of CoA.
So in short,
Basic CoA(Hitting Logia, coating/koka) - - - - >advanced CoA [deflection/shockwave; ability to cut anything yet nothing ; haki imbued slashes (it's also based on flow of haki into slashes from user)] - - - - - - >highly advanced usage of CoA (destroying objects from within and making blade black)
If you have any argument against this, please substantiate it with facts and not your headcannon. Lol
Thank you for reading this. Please post your opinion.
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Some tags
@Rivaille @Bogard @BossYimz
@Sentinel @hades @TheAncientCenturion @HA001 @Cyrus the Cactus @nik87 @Rukusho
Bt there might be one inconsistentency here that differenciate these two Advance CoA haki, Rayleigh for ex we know destroyed Neck collar from within like Luffy did in Wano, yet his sword ain't Black. Which hints these two are still different concpts and users can't use the other.
Which is more consistent then only Mihawk and Ryuma making black blades when there are several more powerful user of blades.
And that being the pinnacle of COA.
Pinnacle of COA can't be something that only 2 has achieved, rather just a subset of the COA that can be achieved by guys like Zoro, Mihawk and Ryuma that are the symbols of bushido in OP.
@hades , @LANJI CUCKSMOKE , @Rivaille what do you say about this?
I said it before Wano that COA has branching and the black blade is the highest on one brench!
And that being the pinnacle of COA.
Pinnacle of COA can't be something that only 2 has achieved, rather just a subset of the COA that can be achieved by guys like Zoro, Mihawk and Ryuma that are the symbols of bushido in OP.
@hades , @LANJI CUCKSMOKE , @Rivaille what do you say about this?
I said it before Wano that COA has branching and the black blade is the highest on one brench!
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Thanks!
Good question winsmoke
In case of collar, all Rayleigh needed is to flow his Haki into the collar(penetration) and destroy it from within.
But when it comes to black blade, it happens with countless battles and through consistent use of flow of haki during those battles into the sword which makes it very difficult to achieve. It more lengthier process. Also key here is the will of the swordsmen and to become one with the sword.
Let's see the two black blade examples we have.
Ryuma - hyped to fight so many battles to protect wano, a country of gold
Mihawk - hyped to fight so many battles with Shanks.
Zoro - fought all those creatures mimicking Mihawk style and mihawk as well to train during ts.
There is nothing as such for Rayleigh.
However, I agree that there is certain degree of inconsistency like why Shanks never made blade black (more focus on CoC maybe but unclear) which will only be clear through more info and I will make changes accordingly.
But this is based on what info we have so far
Good question winsmoke
In case of collar, all Rayleigh needed is to flow his Haki into the collar(penetration) and destroy it from within.
But when it comes to black blade, it happens with countless battles and through consistent use of flow of haki during those battles into the sword which makes it very difficult to achieve. It more lengthier process. Also key here is the will of the swordsmen and to become one with the sword.
Let's see the two black blade examples we have.
Ryuma - hyped to fight so many battles to protect wano, a country of gold
Mihawk - hyped to fight so many battles with Shanks.
Zoro - fought all those creatures mimicking Mihawk style and mihawk as well to train during ts.
There is nothing as such for Rayleigh.
However, I agree that there is certain degree of inconsistency like why Shanks never made blade black (more focus on CoC maybe but unclear) which will only be clear through more info and I will make changes accordingly.
But this is based on what info we have so far
if you say that using flow is advanced haki in of itself then wouldn't any haki weapon user such as Vergo be considered to have advanced CoA?
That doesn't make sense. Luffy said specifically that deflection was advanced haki. Not everyone who can use the flow can use deflection. Vergo surely couldn't
also im skeptical about the existence of "haki slashes". The whole Monet thing could have just been an inconsistency that Oda willingly allowed for dramatic purposes. If haki slashes could exist then how come luffy, Hyou, or Rayleigh have never shown long range haki blasts?
That doesn't make sense. Luffy said specifically that deflection was advanced haki. Not everyone who can use the flow can use deflection. Vergo surely couldn't
also im skeptical about the existence of "haki slashes". The whole Monet thing could have just been an inconsistency that Oda willingly allowed for dramatic purposes. If haki slashes could exist then how come luffy, Hyou, or Rayleigh have never shown long range haki blasts?
I perfectly agree without @Reborn. I think that in the skill tree of haki there is two branchs 
One branch lead you to « Higly advanced CoA » and the other branch lead you to « Black blade »
I personally think that Zoro and Luffy will open a new level toward the end of the story :unsure:
It would be interesting to make a thread like this to CoO;)
One branch lead you to « Higly advanced CoA » and the other branch lead you to « Black blade »
I personally think that Zoro and Luffy will open a new level toward the end of the story :unsure:
It would be interesting to make a thread like this to CoO;)
