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Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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That's fucking intense, it seems the fight will be over next chapter, we need translation to understand everything that happens in that fight but I didn't expect Shin to have that much trouble against that guy.
I guess Hara wanted to make Shin more human after he defeated Houken.

Also it's official, Hara takes more break than Oda now :josad:
He’s actually putting up way less of a fight than I thought he would lol. I thought Gakuhaku Kou would have Shin on the ground pretty quickly but Shin is fighting like a true champ.

I’m not sure why y’all underestimate this guy martially, this is one of the vassal generals of Zhao’s Guardian Deity, and a hulking mass of muscle who spends all his time training at that lol. I figured this guy would be stronger than Gyou’Un as a warrior (though now I think they’re probably about equals).
 
He’s actually putting up way less of a fight than I thought he would lol. I thought Gakuhaku Kou would have Shin on the ground pretty quickly but Shin is fighting like a true champ.

I’m not sure why y’all underestimate this guy martially, this is one of the vassal generals of Zhao’s Guardian Deity, and a hulking mass of muscle who spends all his time training at that lol. I figured this guy would be stronger than Gyou’Un as a warrior (though now I think they’re probably about equals).
Tbh I thought after the Houken fight, Shin would be closer to Houken skills (still don't know how he won that fight) because I thought it was an important step for him.
But Hara seems to want him to stagnate a lil bit and struggle more, I'm fine with it, I'm just surprised.

But Shin is doing fine, he is outnumbered and still manages to block most of the attacks and when they land he just tanks them.

I do hope he slays the guy in half next chapter though
 
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Tbh I thought after the Houken fight, Shin would be closer to Houken skills (still don't know how he won that fight) because I thought it was an important step for him.
Friendship power. Shin should have never won against Houken at that time, it was too early.
And look now, Shin struggles against this guy, Houken would have one shoted him already.
 
Houken character had so many things left in him.,.. it’s a shame that he died that early without changing or progressing or understanding what he lacked etc. Shin beating him that way was satisfying at all
I think Hara had to choose between Riboku and Houken to die in that arc and he chose Houken because he probably wants Shin to also outsmart Riboku on the battlefield with his instinct like Duke Hyou did, now shin has the strength, he needs to develop his instinct more now
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
.
I think Hara had to choose between Riboku and Houken to die in that arc and he chose Houken because he probably wants Shin to also outsmart Riboku on the battlefield with his instinct like Duke Hyou did, now shin has the strength, he needs to develop his instinct more now
Having Houken going on a personal adventure, understanding the love for others and the weight and coming back to fight Shin later or near the end would have been so much better
 
Tbh I thought after the Houken fight, Shin would be closer to Houken skills (still don't know how he won that fight) because I thought it was an important step for him.
But Hara seems to want him to stagnate a lil bit and struggle more, I'm fine with it, I'm just surprised.

But Shin is doing fine, he is outnumbered and still manages to block most of the attacks and when they land he just tanks them.

I do hope he slays the guy in half next chapter though
The way Hara handled this fight in particular to me was really good. As soon as I laid eyes on this monster I was like “yeah this guy is outmuscling Shin 10/10 times.” And sure enough, Shin elected to use speed and skill with the sword to defeat him rather than just mindlessly swinging his Glaive.

It goes to show how far Shin has progressed in terms of maturity, I feel like Shin a few years ago would’ve just kept using brute strength, but now Shin is smart enough to know that there are many ways to win a fight.

Yeah I’m not sure if Gakuhaku Kou dies next chapter, but I think he’ll fall very soon. Looking forward to the reaction of the Qin army when they hear the HSU fell Eikyuu lol.
 
Houken character had so many things left in him.,.. it’s a shame that he died that early without changing or progressing or understanding what he lacked etc. Shin beating him that way was satisfying at all
There really wasn't anything more to explore in Houken.

Besides, he did change. He realised that something was up, he became increasingly frustrated at this conundrum and when he finally realised the answer, he decided to reject it and stick to his beliefs rather than reject everything that he had worked towards throughout his entire life. Deep down, he ultimately knew the answer but chose to ignore it because it was cripplingly painful.
Having Houken going on a personal adventure, understanding the love for others and the weight and coming back to fight Shin later or near the end would have been so much better
Nah, I would much rather have Houken go down swinging while holding onto his own beliefs as the antithesis to Ouki/Shin rather than watching him plagiarize Kyoukai's character arc just so he can become some weirdo rival for Shin who already has a shit load of rivals. Lol.

Besides, doesn't the outcome of the scenario you just described fit Gaimou's character more?
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
.
There really wasn't anything more to explore in Houken.

Besides, he did change. He realised that something was up, he became increasingly frustrated at this conundrum and when he finally realised the answer, he decided to reject it and stick to his beliefs rather than reject everything that he had worked towards throughout his entire life. Deep down, he ultimately knew the answer but chose to ignore it because it was cripplingly painful.

Nah, I would much rather have Houken go down swinging while holding onto his own beliefs as the antithesis to Ouki/Shin rather than watching him plagiarize Kyoukai's character arc just so he can become some weirdo rival for Shin who already has a shit load of rivals. Lol.

Besides, doesn't the outcome of the scenario you just described fit Gaimou's character more?
Houken was insulted by Ouki saying he didn’t understand shit. He was insulted by Duke because he still failed to see things he lacked. And against Shin he still didn’t understand how Shin managed to raise up each time, and how he felt Ouki powers in his glaive.

Houken demise was way too soon. I don’t even talk about power scaling (Hara went out of his way to make Shin winning. )

Houken is not your average rival : he is the one with Riboku who killed Shin mentors : he killed Ouki, he killed Duke, attacked Kyoukai, had numerous bouts with them etc etc. Houken was a corner stone in Shin adventure. And Hara chose to kill Houken : Shin didn’t learn anything with his battle, Houken didn’t progress either etc.

Their long awaited clash should have been one of the best fight in Kingdom, with one of the biggest pay off. All this build up for what ? An half assed fight ? A fight where everyone is at the same point after than before ?

Ouki a peak fighter sweat a lot to beat a weaker Houken and just like that Shin mid way managed to beat him….

Same for the bushin story : we had what one or two chapters where Riboku explained to us their story goals etc and then push Houken died good bye and good night.

An Houken mini arc, with a completely lost Houken would have been better than this lame ending.

for a villain of this caliber Houken really had the short end of the stick.

Houken should have been around till the last campaign of Zaho and Riboku ending and Houken ending should have been linked.

Shibashou will likely be great but Houken for the readers will always have a particular place.
 
A fight where everyone is at the same point after than before ?
What does that mean though? Shin awoke the Weight of a GG against Houken. He definitely did not emerge from that fight the same as he was. He went to death’s doorstep and spoke with Hyou again for the first time in years. The Houken fight also progressed the Shin x Kyoukai stuff. Hell Shin slaying Houken marked the point where Shin finally became a General for Qin.

How did Shin leave the Houken fight the same exactly? Or Kyoukai for that matter?
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
.
What does that mean though? Shin awoke the Weight of a GG against Houken. He definitely did not emerge from that fight the same as he was. He went to death’s doorstep and spoke with Hyou again for the first time in years. The Houken fight also progressed the Shin x Kyoukai stuff. Hell Shin slaying Houken marked the point where Shin finally became a General for Qin.

How did Shin leave the Houken fight the same exactly? Or Kyoukai for that matter?
Slaying Houken should have been a GG feat, the act where Shin become part of the greatest not some general.

I will maybe read again the fight, but it was so random, so rushed, way too much fake power, so devoid of any hype or pay off.
Hara didn’t respect his character for me with that fight.

Shin being almost dead after the fight and meeting Hyou wasn’t my cup of tea but why not. But if Harareally wanted to draw that he could have had that with a stalemate between the two or en other fight.
 
Slaying Houken should have been a GG feat, the act where Shin become part of the greatest not some general.
Not really sure I understand what you’re saying here. Should Shin have been promoted to General after he skated Fuuki at Bayou? Of course not, Shin was young and inexperienced. Should Ouhon have been promoted to Great General when he slayed Shi Ei? No, he had yet to prove he could lead even 10,000 men, let alone 100,000. Your rank in the military is determined by your experience and victories, not just the commander you happened to slay, and Houken barely counts as a commander given that he has no ability to lead armies.

Yes, Houken was a top 3 military figure in Zhao at Shukai Plains. Is Shin’s feat of slaying Houken not incredible because Houken appeared when he was least expected? That’s always what Houken has done throughout the entire manga so I don’t understand why him appearing from nowhere isn’t consistent with who he’s been up until now lol.

For me, slaying Houken at the end of Shukai Plains was incredible, and it marked the first of Zhao’s 3 major defeats to Qin. Houken’s death resulted in Zhao losing Gyou, Kochou’s death will result in Qin rolling up to Kantan itself, and Riboku’s death will result in the end of Zhao. In terms of significance, Houken’s death marked the end of the Gyou arc which is my favorite in Kingdom.

I will maybe read again the fight, but it was so random, so rushed, way too much fake power, so devoid of any hype or pay off.
Hara didn’t respect his character for me with that fight.
It’s a controversial fight but I loved every minute of it lol. Leave it to Hara to leave me satisfied with a Shonen style infinite stamina slugfest that I otherwise would’ve disliked in any other story lol.

Houken is really not that important of a figure for Zhao in the grand scheme of things. He was just a really powerful warrior that Riboku was using, he ultimately wasn’t a huge figure for Zhao outside of his rank. Even Shibashou I would argue will have been a bigger asset for Zhao in the end than Houken was, and he isn’t even a Great General from what we can tell.
 
:milaugh: I love Bihei bro.

It’s a controversial fight but I loved every minute of it lol. Leave it to Hara to leave me satisfied with a Shonen style infinite stamina slugfest that I otherwise would’ve disliked in any other story lol.
I liked it, but I would have preferred it if Houken was more nerfed before he fought Shin. Kyoukai cutting off his fingers definitely did some damage tho.

I hate the shit immediately afterward tho.

Slaying Houken should have been a GG feat, the act where Shin become part of the greatest not some general.

I will maybe read again the fight, but it was so random, so rushed, way too much fake power, so devoid of any hype or pay off.
Hara didn’t respect his character for me with that fight.

Shin being almost dead after the fight and meeting Hyou wasn’t my cup of tea but why not. But if Harareally wanted to draw that he could have had that with a stalemate between the two or en other fight.
Do you think Houken should have lived longer?
 
Houken was insulted by Ouki saying he didn’t understand shit. He was insulted by Duke because he still failed to see things he lacked. And against Shin he still didn’t understand how Shin managed to raise up each time, and how he felt Ouki powers in his glaive.
Houken fully realising the possibility of his belief being wrong.
Houken, in his final moments, realising the ultimate answer that was both before his eyes every time he met a GG and that was within him all along. The answer being the strength of emotional attachment, the one thing he had always denied the importance of.
Houken did realise the merciless reality that was his answer.
Houken is not your average rival : he is the one with Riboku who killed Shin mentors : he killed Ouki, he killed Duke, attacked Kyoukai, had numerous bouts with them etc etc. Houken was a corner stone in Shin adventure. And Hara chose to kill Houken : Shin didn’t learn anything with his battle, Houken didn’t progress either etc.
Houken is not a rival full stop. Claiming Houken is a rival to Shin is like claiming Akainu is a rival to Luffy. Lol.

Houken is not a rival to Shin, he is an antithesis to his character and beliefs.
Ouki a peak fighter sweat a lot to beat a weaker Houken and just like that Shin mid way managed to beat him….

An Houken mini arc, with a completely lost Houken would have been better than this lame ending.
For the first point, Ouki was in nowhere near as critical a condition as Shin was from fighting Houken, Ouki did not get assistance from Kyoukai and Ouki did not go up against a demoralized Houken that was in the middle of having an existential crises (ya know, since strength of belief is a big deal in Kingdom).

For the second point there, Houken's character arc was spread throughout a large chunk of the story. The man absolutely did not need a Kyoukai style snoozefest mini arc focused on just him having a different character arc that is probably going to be what Gaimou gets anyway.
 
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