Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?


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Kyoukai is dangerously close to checking off every single generic shonen badass trait in the book lol. Over the years, we’ve had:

Raised as part of an assassin clan? Check.

Not just any assassin clan, but the strongest and most badass assassin clan? Check.

Literally exits an incredibly interesting plot line about politics and warfare to go pursue a generic revenge quest where she discovers that the true secret to strength is Nakama powers? Check.

And now in 2020 we have:

Mysteriously badass sibling enters the story completely out of nowhere and for seemingly no reason.

I don’t want to pass judgment about this subplot this quickly as we really don’t know where Hara is heading with this, but Kyoukai for me has always been the least well-written Kingdom character, and this arc is doing nothing to change that perception for me.

Couple this with her complete nonsense power level (she literally jumped 2 ranks after accomplishing relatively little at Shukai Plains, more than Shin jumped after slaying freaking Rinko and Keisha), and Kyoukai is metaphorically digging her own grave as a character imho.
I agree with all of this. The only thing that is not quite correct is that Rei is technically not a new character. She has appeared before but was like a tertiary B list character that no one was expecting to see again.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-kingdom-spoiler.15/page-78#post-859737

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-kingdom-spoiler.15/page-79#post-871688

Not much of an improvement though. I have no idea what Hara is doing with this character.

I swear that every time the manga focuses on Kyoukai, it takes a notable dip in quality.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
A powerless Kyou Kai can be interesting, or a less powerful one. I really want her to be nerfed for the rest of the serie and "just" be a really strong strong soldier. Her to learn not being OP can be good character development
Her current power level would’ve been fine if she progressed into it more gradually. If she wouldn’t have been single-handedly slaughtering hundreds or thousands of Kaishibou’s Elite Shock troops at the same time that Shin was being one-shot by 300 Man Commander Ouhon, Kyoukai’s own nonsense strength wouldn’t be this jarring.

I don’t much want her to get nerfed at this point actually, I just want her to stop being so generic lol.
 
Rei is just way too strong for even Kingdom standard.
Killing 100 soldiers ? Wow that's quite a insane feat. Knowing she is not physical beast like Houken. There is a limit how far you can go with just talent/technique. Need physical stats to match up
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
Her current power level would’ve been fine if she progressed into it more naturally. If she wouldn’t have been single-handedly slaughtering hundreds or thousands of Kaishibou’s Elite Shock troops at the same time that Shin was being one-shot by 300 Man Commander Ouhon, Kyoukai’s own nonsense strength wouldn’t be less jarring.

I don’t much want her to get nerfed at this point actually, I just want her to stop being so generic lol.
What is done is already done, we can't do anything about that, Kyoukai being Op at Sanyou was quite fun but a lot too much. But for the future I think her being nerfed can be good plot wise and character wise. She always used her dance her OPness her power to do unbelievable things now if she cant do that anymore she has to find other things to find new strength, to develop and learn the hard way. Much better. Kyou Kai being OP again after "sacrificing" a part of her strength wouldn't be great to me.
 
100 man unit is quite important unit among fodder. If you remember starting of Shins journey and how General Ouki used Shins 100 men special unit to finish some important task in war.
It's lime Houken killing Shin unit in one swoop..
 
@Admiral Lee Hung one other thing to add to that checklist is that Kai excels at things she should logically not excel at.

Being super strong through a lifetime of constant gruelling training in order to be the greatest assassin alive? Sure, I can buy that.

Excelling at tactics and strategies for large scale warfare? How the feck did that come from assassin training?

Not only is she better at it than she logically should be, she is better at it than individuals who have superior strategical training and experience.

Looking back at the Western Zhao Invasion Arc, one of the dumbest moments in the entire series is when the gang are scratching their heads at what Ousen is doing and it is Kyoukai who realises Ousen’s plan for using the refugees.

Out of a group consisting of

I) Ouhon and Mouten; two individuals noted for their strategical talent from noble families who would have paid for them to have private tutoring in the art of war.

II) Karyo Ten, the literal student of Shouheikan himself and basically the grand student of Koushou.

III) Shin, who has held the interest of Great Generals like Ouki/Duke Hyou and who would have been made a General an arc earlier if not for the Kanki incident.

It is somehow Kyoukai, the one individual with both the least experience and not a single shred of training or tutoring, that is the one to realise the plan of Ousen.

How? :kaidowhat:
 
Kyoukai is dangerously close to checking off every single generic shonen badass trait in the book lol. Over the years, we’ve had:

Raised as part of an assassin clan? Check.

Not just any assassin clan, but the strongest and most badass assassin clan? Check.

Literally exits an incredibly interesting plot line about politics and warfare to go pursue a generic revenge quest where she discovers that the true secret to strength is Nakama powers? Check.

And now in 2020 we have:

Mysteriously badass sibling enters the story completely out of nowhere and for seemingly no reason.

I don’t want to pass judgment about this subplot this quickly as we really don’t know where Hara is heading with this, but Kyoukai for me has always been the least well-written Kingdom character, and this arc is doing nothing to change that perception for me.

Couple this with her complete nonsense power level (she literally jumped 2 ranks after accomplishing relatively little at Shukai Plains, more than Shin jumped after slaying freaking Rinko and Keisha), and Kyoukai is metaphorically digging her own grave as a character imho.
Agreed with this mostly even if she's kinda like my guilty pleasure, Hara gotta make her into her own character considering she's one of the irl people to finally defeat Riboku & Shibashou
 
She is turning into Bushin ! I don't know how this sub plot will add anything important to the grand story.
I guess author wants to make Kyo general before climax with Zhao . And Rei will be her right hand.
I think
Hara introduced this kk sister cuz he want to remove kk from hsu
And let her lead her own army as general
...


I am ok with this
...


cuz 2 kk in same army is just so stupid
not about their strength no
its about design and uniqueness


look how akkakien feel unique in ohon army he is not a clone of any soulder there.


and eveb if aisen look like mouten new design he still has some different like strength etc


not copy paste
like kk and this new kk
same clothes same moves same tribe same power lol ?!
.....
Post automatically merged:

plz hara let this be first step to split kk from shin
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
I agree with all of this. The only thing that is not quite correct is that Rei is technically not a new character. She has appeared before but was like a tertiary B list character that no one was expecting to see again.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-kingdom-spoiler.15/page-78#post-859737

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/general-kingdom-spoiler.15/page-79#post-871688

Not much of an improvement though. I have no idea what Hara is doing with this character.

I swear that every time the manga focuses on Kyoukai, it takes a notable dip in quality.
I think that’s my big problem with Rei just from reading the spoiler summary. To expand on that point, and to respond to both of you:

What is done is already done, we can't do anything about that, Kyoukai being Op at Sanyou was quite fun but a lot too much. But for the future I think her being nerfed can be good plot wise and character wise. She always used her dance her OPness her power to do unbelievable things now if she cant do that anymore she has to find other things to find new strength, to develop and learn the hard way. Much better. Kyou Kai being OP again after "sacrificing" a part of her strength wouldn't be great to me.
I think it’s honestly too late to nerf Kyoukai.

If we assume Kyoukai wants to actually be a Great General of her own, she will need her full strength to do so, as nonsensically capable as she is. My biggest problem with Rei is that just feels like the wrong time to introduce this character to me.

At a time where the Gyoku Hou and Gaku Ka are blooming as armies, getting new commanders, and excelling on battlefields where there competition are Great General level commanders in Ousen, Kanki, Yo Tan Wa, Ko Chou, etc...instead of the Hi Shin Unit getting focus as a unit, we’re meeting Kyoukai’s random ass sister that 90% of the fandom didn’t even know existed last week.

I trust Hara, the man is a genius, but I just think he is really appealing to the lowest common denominator with Kyoukai. Like everything about her is generic or stupid on purpose because she is a character designed to appeal to people who enjoy more “typical” badasses. Like I said, I trust Hara, but god damn, I just don’t care about anything Kyoukai related.

Looking back at the Western Zhao Invasion Arc, one of the dumbest moments in the entire series is when the gang are scratching their heads at what Ousen is doing and it is Kyoukai who realises Ousen’s plan for using the refugees.
Weirdly, I actually liked this moment with Kyoukai haha. Idk why. I think the point of that scene was to stress how unique her vision is, not necessarily that she’s smarter than Mouten or Ouhon in terms of battlefield tactics because she’s not lol. But I understand why this is off putting, like most of the stuff Kyoukai is involved with. I also really liked when Kyoukai was the one who realized that Shin needed to face Gyou’Un instead of Ten, just to show that I’m not mindlessly biased against Kyoukai lol.

But to this day, there have only been two moments in Kingdom where I thought the manga was less than stellar:

1. Kyoukai obliterates Kaishibou’s Elites (I think I literally had to retcon the events of the manga in my head, making excuses like “the brutally wounded HSU helped her!!” Just so my enjoyment of the Sanyou arc wasn’t completely ruined lol).

2. When Kyoukai got her nakama power up from Ren.

The two lowest points of Kingdom imo, both with Kyoukai at their center.
 
Weirdly, I actually liked this moment with Kyoukai haha. Idk why. I think the point of that scene was to stress how unique her vision is, not necessarily that she’s smarter than Mouten or Ouhon in terms of battlefield tactics because she’s not lol. But I understand why this is off putting, like most of the stuff Kyoukai is involved with. I also really liked when Kyoukai was the one who realized that Shin needed to face Gyou’Un instead of Ten, just to show that I’m not mindlessly biased against Kyoukai lol.
Is unique vision not more Shin's deal though? What with him being an Instinctual type and all? Kyoukai is just a flat out strategic type with no training and she just out strategized all the life long strategists around here. Lol.

I agree. Kyoukai being the one to realise they needed Shin's instinctual talent was a good moment. I liked that moment. Lol.
2. When Kyoukai got her nakama power up from Ren.
What I really did not get about that entire subplot, was how it all went from Kyoukai promising to return to the HSU that she came to consider like family and then immediately aim to become a Qin Six Great General, which would split her from the HSU, for literally "just because" reasons. How did it even jump to that? :doffytroll:

As if we didn't already have a main character and his two rivals aiming for the exact same thing. :goatasure:

Another Kyoukai moment that stuck with me for it's sheer cringe was when Kai was facing off Ryuutou and unironically said "We are not Invaders, we are the Hi Shin Unit!!"..... :usoprice:

I do not want it to sound like I am bashing Kai or Kingdom. Kai obviously has enjoyable moments, good scenes and plenty of hype, while Kingdom is hands down my favourite work of fiction.

Despite that, it is impossible for me to look back at Kingdom, look at it's less stellar moments and not notice how Kai is in practically all of them
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Another Kyoukai moment that stuck with me for it's sheer cringe was when Kai was facing off Ryuutou and unironically said "We are not Invaders, we are the Hi Shin Unit!!"..... :usoprice:
The single worst line of dialogue in all Kingdom lmfao. I completely forgot about this one. I think I wiped it from my memory on purpose lol.

What I really did not get about that entire subplot, was how it all went from Kyoukai promising to return to the HSU that she came to consider like family and then immediately aim to become a Qin Six Great General, which would split her from the HSU, for literally "just because" reasons. How did it even jump to that? :doffytroll:
Yeah her entire ambition is nonsense at this point but I’m willing to ride with it I guess, partly because I’m pretty positive that she won’t leave the HSU and will end the manga as a subordinate General of Shin’s. But if she really does end up becoming one of the Qin 6 in the end...yeah wtf.

It’s also weird that a lot of times, Kyoukai is verbally separated from the Hi Shin Unit as if she and her men aren’t actually part of the Unit.

When Shin was giving his emotional speech to the entire HSU right before their awakening, he was like “I remember when we were just 100 men, and now look at us...we’re up to 5,000...oh yeah, and Kyoukai and her 3,000 are here too”

And I’m like, was Kyoukai not there when you were a 100 man unit? Is it necessary to separate her and her men from the squad when her entire life’s motivation for being on the battlefield, is the fact that she wants to fight alongside all of you? It really seems to me like she honestly just randomly blurted out that she wants to be a GG for no good reason, other than Hara wanting to give her a lofty ambition and parallel her with Kyou.

I’m fine with Kyoukai wanting to have a grander ambition than just being Shin’s subordinate..that’s great and all, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when it’s part of her character arc that her connection to the HSU is what freed her from the chains of her Shiyuu past. There needs to be a legit reason for her to want to leave the HSU and right now, Kyoukai and the writing around her life motives is just a contradictory mess.

I’m not trying to be too hard on her but she really is this jarring for me in comparison to most other Kingdom characters. I was completely shocked that she took the recent popularity poll lol.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
And I’m like, was Kyoukai not there when you were a 100 man unit? Is it necessary to separate her and her men from the squad when her entire life’s motivation for being on the battlefield, is the fact that she wants to fight alongside all of you? It really seems to me like she honestly just randomly blurted out that she wants to be a GG for no good reason, other than Hara wanting to give her a lofty ambition and parallel her with Kyou.

I’m fine with Kyoukai wanting to have a grander ambition than just being Shin’s subordinate..that’s great and all, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when it’s part of her character arc that her connection to the HSU is what freed her from the chains of her Shiyuu past. There needs to be a legit reason for her to want to leave the HSU and right now, Kyoukai and the writing around her life motives is just a contradictory mess.

I’m not trying to be too hard on her but she really is this jarring for me in comparison to most other Kingdom characters. I was completely shocked that she took the recent popularity poll lol.
They will maybe try to do something like that : I can't be with you and your wife if I am not your equal. So i need to be a general too before being wth you
Half Ouki / Half Blair Waldorf
 
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Here ;)

Chapter summary thanks to Jeeswag and the TKC :

HSU HQ:
Kyoukai wakes up thinking she felt Houken but feels somethings different. She leaves her tent to be greeted by Kyourei saying "Long time no see older sister Kai" Shin and Karyoten are heading over after receiving news Kyokai's comrade has come to their camp but are confused having heard nothing from Kyoukai. The soldiers are getting excited seeing someone like Kyoukai who could take out 100 soldiers on her own. Kyourei says it's impressive Kyoukai has reached the rank of lieutenant who is second in command amongst many men. Kyoukai asks why she's here and how she left the village. Kyourei says their rule states only those who win may leave the village, but also there are some who break the rule and leaves too. Kyoukai starts questioning her. Shin and Karyoten enters the scene and Kyourei introduces herself as Kyoukai's little sister. She says from today on she will join the HSU and tells them to make use of her moderately. Some soldiers are getting excited, Denei says she can't just join like then, Garo says it shouldn't be a problem if she's strong, Bihei hesitantly agrees, Suugen says to stop kidding around. Kyourei speaks disrespectfully to Suugen and Kanto starts arguing with her.

Kyoukai asks what she's really doing here to which Rei replies she's here to lend her strength to Kyoukai saying if it weren't for her the bucktooth guy's men would've been dead. Kyoukai tells her to wait in her tent while she speaks with the group about her admittance, pulling Shin and Karyoten to the side. Rei asks for her to put in a good word otherwise she'll join the Zhao and kill many of them instead.

It was decided that she would be placed into Kyoukai's group for the time being. If she could get along with the others then they would let her in. However, she left Kyoukai's group on the left and came to where Ryuyuu was because there were more enemies around. She asks why they're just waiting around. Ryuyuu says that's the plan, to wait for the enemies to push in and kill them, which the others are doing as well. She gets tired of it and goes in. They see her start fighing the Zhao and heads in after her. Suugen sees them move up and assumes the ambush has been discovered and tells Hairou to switch formations. However, because the right side moved up it caused a lack of reinforcement for the left which led to Hairou's unit just barely escaping. However, the right side was having a much easier time pushing in thanks to Kyourei's strength. Ryuyuu's unit pushed into the center where Suugen was and it led to an overall victory for the HSU infantry.

Ryuyuu went to apologize to Hairou and Hairou says there's no need if they won. They talk about Kyourei and though they respect her strength they think she needs to understand what it means to follow a plan. Suugen's reprimanding her while they talk. Ryuyuu says that he doesn't think it'll do anything. When he caught a glimpse of her earlier it looked like she was just enjoying killing others.

The next day:
Back in the forest the infantries are fighting again. Suugen says this is an important battle and they'll push out of the forest after this and as they charge they see Rei standing in between. Kanto tells her to don't block their way and she tells him to not say useless things. She says it's a sin and that she's annoyed. She thinks to herself they need to taste bloodshed and says something along the lines of needing to get rid of the darkness of humans.

No break next week
The guerilla Qin vs Zhao stalemate was the right time to boost HSU's strength after Shin's promotion, hence why i expected the debut of a martial beast that Shin could finally trust to slay other commanders, but definitely not a 2nd Shiyuu assassin.
 
She is a sadist
kai mistook her for Houken
She says she doesn't care and wouldn't mind joining the Zhao to kill the HSU
Yeah she is definitely evil and will be a villain later on don't worry she isn't gonna join
 
Summary by Jeeswag from TKC

HSU HQ:
Kyoukai asks if Shin and Karyoten remember what she told them about their clan's ritual. They both remember the ritual to decide the next Shiyuu and Kyoukai says 6 years ago when she killed Yuuren she withheld the information about her death to prevent the next ritual. However, the news reached the clan anyway and a new ritual was probably held. It's her suspicion that Kyourei won in the next ritual.

HSU Infantry:
Kyourei is taking out the Zhao left and right and Kyoukai says the reason for Kyourei came is probably...(cliffhanger)
Kanto wonders how Kyourei is similar to Kyoukai with the way she's fighting. The Zhao soldiers surrender but she kills them anyway. Kanto thinks shes just a person who wants to kill people.

HSU HQ:
The soldiers are enjoying a night after winning their battles and everyone but the infantry are in a good mood. Denei says the new recruit wasn't listening to orders and Garou says it's fine since she's strong. But Denei says it's something beyond just not obeying orders from what he's heard. Kanto is frustrated at the fact that Kyourei is strong enough to do the work of 100 people yet feels that she shouldn't be forgiven for everything because of that. Shousa left the HSU in their hands and Kyourei is stepping all over the infantry that he built with them. One of the pig brothers says "but she's still strong" and Kanto refutes if that's all that matters. Hairou asks what he wants them to do about it and Kanto says he'd like for her to be removed from the HSU. She poses too much threat to the unit as a whole and a person like her shouldn't remain in the HSU.

Kyourei is off to the side throwing up and Kou finds her and asks if she's okay. Kyourei asks how he's using a noise reducing step technique and Kou says he learned it from Kyoukai. Kyourei asks what he wants and he says he was saved by her the last time and suggests she joins them with the whole unit instead of being by herself. She asks if he isn't scared of her. He says he is but since they'll be comrades moving forward...Rei asks if he's looking down on her and pulls out her sword. When she sees someone who doesn't know anything spout nonsense her desire to kill increases. They're just in the world above so what makes them think they fought so well up til now. She asks if he can feel her sword. Kou is let go when the other soldiers come looking for him.

HSU Battle:
Thanks to Kyourei joining the battle, despite her not following any orders, the HSU was able to catch up with the rest of the Qin line out of the forest. However, she then continued her killing spree by killing the surrendered Zhao soldiers and this was something the HSU Infantry finally couldn't let go and they went to confront Shin about it. Shin says he promised to leave Kyourei's situation to Kyoukai and Suugen yells back where the hell Kyoukai is. Shin says she's meditating and will be out in about 3 days. Suugen says they can't wait that long and that she already crossed a line.

HSU Infantry:
Suugen and the rest of the infantry heads confront her and Suugen tells her to leave the HSU. She asks if there's any authority from him to order such a thing. He says of course since he's the Infantry commander who's part of the higher authority and she asks where's Kyoukai. Suugen says she's not here and she replies telling him to shut up because she'll kill them and that it's not just a threat. Suugen says he knows because he heard she already tried to kill Kou earlier. If she doesn't leave on her own then they'll force her out with everyone present. Kyourei says she'll say this now but arrows won't work against her looking over to the bush Jin and Tan were hiding in. Everyone feels the danger and even Denei and Garou feels the need to join in. Kyourei says if they all kneel before her now she'll still forgive them and they go infantry goes in for the attack. Before they fight Kyoukai intervenes and tells Rei to wait. Kyoukai tells her to not touch the unit since her real goal is Kyoukai. Kyourei says she's been caught and that she's here to kill Kyoukai.

Magazine break next week!
 
Kyorei seems like a good opponent for Kyokai's comeback.... But why suddenly Shiyuu s are back to claim Kyokai's head.... This Kyorei is deffo like Yuuren... Kyokai at her best can handle her no problem but I doubt whether she can beat Kyorei in her current state.

Think Kyokai will somehow defeat her and change her mind. Kyorei will stop the Shiyuu ritual after her clash with Kyokai forever.
 
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