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- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
It won't be.
Shin is meant to be coming back from Yan by himself to rendezvous with Mouten who was at Chu. Kouen starts stalking him the moment he enters Chu and then ambushed before reaching Mouten. With SHK then joining.
The combined force of Mouten and Shin was 250k or so, Shin is going to have around 100k or so during that ambush with Kouen likely having 200k+ along with SHK. That battlefield will only hype up the HSU, due to what it'd take to beat em. An outnumbered ambush from Kouen and SHK.
The combined force of Mouten and Shin was 250k or so, Shin is going to have around 100k or so during that ambush with Kouen likely having 200k+ along with SHK. That battlefield will only hype up the HSU, due to what it'd take to beat em. An outnumbered ambush from Kouen and SHK.
Agreed. Shin will look good even in defeat, just like Ouki and Kanki did in theirs (minus dying and all lol). I just hope Hara doesn't kill too many HSU guys I like (pls don't kill Suugen) 
I just hope Karyo Ten doesn't die.
Ouki, top qin 6 of his era- Had a war where his commanders got fucked up and essentially redid his whole commanders (rokoumi and etc aren't his prime era commanders)
Ousen, going to be top Qin 6 of his era - just had a war where all his commanders got fucked up and will have to redo his commanders
Shin, will be top Qin 6 from his era - will experience it.
It's a testament to a general's capability in losing their core vassals and then being capable enough to reassemble and recruit a formidable squad again.
Shin sliding away with no criticism for this war is insane bruh.
A man who commands 30k soldiers, got completely voided into being a non-factor on the battlefield, leaving Ousen without his most useful pawn, effectively making 3 commanders completely null n void.
This battle again shows how having information on the enemy before matter's so much in a battles situation.
At Shukai Riboku's info was overriden by Shin and Ouhons awakenings and Mouten clutching up. While Ousen had a wild factor in Bananji that was outside of his info at the end.
This battle, Riboku's info was on point and his plan executed perfectly. Ousen on the other hand had to deal with the fairly unknown force of the Seika Army.
Putting sole blame on Ousen would be naive as putting the blame of Bayou's loss on Ouki. But if you do want to blame someone on the battlefield, Akou and HSU would be the ones to direct it at before Ousen.
A man who commands 30k soldiers, got completely voided into being a non-factor on the battlefield, leaving Ousen without his most useful pawn, effectively making 3 commanders completely null n void.
This battle again shows how having information on the enemy before matter's so much in a battles situation.
At Shukai Riboku's info was overriden by Shin and Ouhons awakenings and Mouten clutching up. While Ousen had a wild factor in Bananji that was outside of his info at the end.
This battle, Riboku's info was on point and his plan executed perfectly. Ousen on the other hand had to deal with the fairly unknown force of the Seika Army.
Putting sole blame on Ousen would be naive as putting the blame of Bayou's loss on Ouki. But if you do want to blame someone on the battlefield, Akou and HSU would be the ones to direct it at before Ousen.
Lol, no. Ousen's responsibility is head and shoulders above Shin's and Akou's. Ouki wasn't responsible for Bayou because he SPECIFICALLY TOLD Moubu not to pursue beyond the view of Qin's HQ. Moubu disobeyed his orders and did it anyway.
Ousen was perfectly fine with Akou pursuing Riboku, saying Riboku was underestimating Akou's caliber. If he wanted to stop Akou he could have sent a messenger and told him to stay put, but he didn't. Shin followed Akou's orders and pursued RBK, Ousen took no action there either. Shin disobeyed no orders. Again, Ousen could have sent a messenger or given orders at the start of the battle for Shin to stay put, but he didn't.
This defeat rests squarely on Ousen's shoulders. You don't get to enjoy the credit for Shin and Ouhon's awakening and winning Shukai for you and then shifting the blame towards others when you fuck up.
Ousen was perfectly fine with Akou pursuing Riboku, saying Riboku was underestimating Akou's caliber. If he wanted to stop Akou he could have sent a messenger and told him to stay put, but he didn't. Shin followed Akou's orders and pursued RBK, Ousen took no action there either. Shin disobeyed no orders. Again, Ousen could have sent a messenger or given orders at the start of the battle for Shin to stay put, but he didn't.
This defeat rests squarely on Ousen's shoulders. You don't get to enjoy the credit for Shin and Ouhon's awakening and winning Shukai for you and then shifting the blame towards others when you fuck up.
- Confused as to why you brought up Moubu. Moubu isn't the reason Qin lost, he's the reason Ouki got a guaranteed death. Qin was going to lose whether Moubu charged in or not the moment Riboku's fully healthy army showed up. Difference just being Ouki would've lived and a good portion of Qin army could've retreated. My mentioning of Bayou had absolutely nothing to do with Moubu. It had to do with not having information. Ouki lost because Qin didn't have information on Riboku and his army, a complete unknown factor.
- The moment we first see Akou looking at Riboku and about to go charge at Riboku... Hara literally draws a whole page with giant panels of Ousen saying "Don't fall for it Akou... it's a bait." Unless Ousen had a horse with instant teleportation he wouldn't have been able to prevent that. Then when Akou does fall for the trap, Ousen thinks highly of his own guy. Did you expect Ousen not to have faith in Akou?? But in order to help Akou's mistake he would've either had to fuck up his army formations or have faith in Akou. So no clue how you rationally blame this on Ousen. It's very clear Ousen saw through the trap and disagreed with it.
- Shin's function/role is that of an independent army, authority granted to him by SHK. He has the power to disobey orders as he sees fit according to the battlefield's demands, he isn't a subordinate general like Akou. Shin's responsibility is greater than Akou and so is his role. Ousen specifically positioned the right wing in a manner that would allow them to join forces if need be. Why? Because the HSU is his biggest piece and factor to turn tides. Akou on his own gave orders to Shin to chase Riboku. Shin then went through with it. Then when Shin sees a mud castle in the middle of nowhere he chose to continue with a siege. This had nothing to do with Ousen as it was out of his control.
In order to counter all of that Ousen would've needed men or horses with superspeed that would've reached them on time to prevent them from making those mistakes....so no clue how you would put any of that Ousen.
- Why are you bringing in statements or things said by other people to me? I've multiple times stated Shukai was not an Ousen win, and he cannot be given credit for Mouten stepping up, partial credit for Ouhon's awakening and credit for Shin's awakening as he predicted it and his plan relied on it. Then at the end with Ouhon and Mouten coming in clutch to save him... If you have beef with people giving Ousen the full credit for Shukai, you should address them, not me. And if you yourself wish to participate in dumb logic like that go ahead, but you can't really use that as an argument against people who don't believe in it.
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This is completely false, he attempted to neutralize the unknown force of Shibashou with his strategy of isolating him, but it didnt work. Ousen realistically did the best he could with the tools he had. Except at the end when he delayed his retreat due to his faith in Akou and Sou'ou. Outside of that Ousen was fine and was of the same caliber he was at Shukai.
- The moment we first see Akou looking at Riboku and about to go charge at Riboku... Hara literally draws a whole page with giant panels of Ousen saying "Don't fall for it Akou... it's a bait." Unless Ousen had a horse with instant teleportation he wouldn't have been able to prevent that. Then when Akou does fall for the trap, Ousen thinks highly of his own guy. Did you expect Ousen not to have faith in Akou?? But in order to help Akou's mistake he would've either had to fuck up his army formations or have faith in Akou. So no clue how you rationally blame this on Ousen. It's very clear Ousen saw through the trap and disagreed with it.
- Shin's function/role is that of an independent army, authority granted to him by SHK. He has the power to disobey orders as he sees fit according to the battlefield's demands, he isn't a subordinate general like Akou. Shin's responsibility is greater than Akou and so is his role. Ousen specifically positioned the right wing in a manner that would allow them to join forces if need be. Why? Because the HSU is his biggest piece and factor to turn tides. Akou on his own gave orders to Shin to chase Riboku. Shin then went through with it. Then when Shin sees a mud castle in the middle of nowhere he chose to continue with a siege. This had nothing to do with Ousen as it was out of his control.
In order to counter all of that Ousen would've needed men or horses with superspeed that would've reached them on time to prevent them from making those mistakes....so no clue how you would put any of that Ousen.
- Why are you bringing in statements or things said by other people to me? I've multiple times stated Shukai was not an Ousen win, and he cannot be given credit for Mouten stepping up, partial credit for Ouhon's awakening and credit for Shin's awakening as he predicted it and his plan relied on it. Then at the end with Ouhon and Mouten coming in clutch to save him... If you have beef with people giving Ousen the full credit for Shukai, you should address them, not me. And if you yourself wish to participate in dumb logic like that go ahead, but you can't really use that as an argument against people who don't believe in it.
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This is completely false, he attempted to neutralize the unknown force of Shibashou with his strategy of isolating him, but it didnt work. Ousen realistically did the best he could with the tools he had. Except at the end when he delayed his retreat due to his faith in Akou and Sou'ou. Outside of that Ousen was fine and was of the same caliber he was at Shukai.
Shin chose to chase after Riboku of his own free will. Weren't Ousen's orders, were Akou's and he could've easily said no and do his thing. He then chose to siege.
Ousen positioned the HSU in a manner that would allow him to join forces with the HSU if need be. Why? Because he knew that could end up being a possibility. Riboku by completely owning HSU fucked that up. So now Ousen had to deal with the Seika army while not having his biggest pawn available to him. While his biggest subordinate fell into a trap.
That's credit to Riboku, but you can't blame for Ousen for that. Just like you can't blame Riboku for the decisions independently taken by Gyou'un not retreating when Bananji sent the order to. These are independent decisions taken by generals.
What was Ousen meant to do? Pull up random strategies out of his ass?
You guys are overdoing it with the Ousen slander. This coming from a guy who wrote essays to @Shanks how Riboku owned Ousen at Shukai.
Ousen positioned the HSU in a manner that would allow him to join forces with the HSU if need be. Why? Because he knew that could end up being a possibility. Riboku by completely owning HSU fucked that up. So now Ousen had to deal with the Seika army while not having his biggest pawn available to him. While his biggest subordinate fell into a trap.
That's credit to Riboku, but you can't blame for Ousen for that. Just like you can't blame Riboku for the decisions independently taken by Gyou'un not retreating when Bananji sent the order to. These are independent decisions taken by generals.
What was Ousen meant to do? Pull up random strategies out of his ass?
You guys are overdoing it with the Ousen slander. This coming from a guy who wrote essays to @Shanks how Riboku owned Ousen at Shukai.
Mouten is gonna be utterly terrifying in his prime. Shouheikun said that he couldn't grasp the extent of his potential, his talent was often portrayed to be beyond his rank (more than Ouhon and Shin), Mougou also called him the most talented in the family no esitation.
He's gonna be a nightmare of a strategist, it's hard for me to see even the set-to-be GOAT of the manga Ri Shin besting that Mouten.
He's gonna be a nightmare of a strategist, it's hard for me to see even the set-to-be GOAT of the manga Ri Shin besting that Mouten.