Controversial General Political Discussion
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You are supporting genocide/war crime here.
If you were at the place of Palestinian in Gaza, you would also probably support horrible people. Simply because those are the only ones who act against the oppressor in an offensive manner. Its a priviledged position to have to say that you can have the choice not to support horrible people. When you have lost 30 members of a family and you see no change and a people in front of you in the other side of the wall that are making fun of you, you have only anger.
This is bad, but this doesn't mean you should be punished for it.
Wake the f*ck up.
If you were at the place of Palestinian in Gaza, you would also probably support horrible people. Simply because those are the only ones who act against the oppressor in an offensive manner. Its a priviledged position to have to say that you can have the choice not to support horrible people. When you have lost 30 members of a family and you see no change and a people in front of you in the other side of the wall that are making fun of you, you have only anger.
This is bad, but this doesn't mean you should be punished for it.
Wake the f*ck up.
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Rarely do I agree with Logiko... and once again, I don't.
Evil is still evil. I do not agree with oppression politics. People can still choose to not engage. These individuals who have suffered can still realise that butchering the other side isn't good. If they're supporting Hamas, then they implicitly agree with their actions. It's not a position of privilege to disagree with evil. Fuck off with your twisted moralizing.
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First time I've agreed with you. But I can actually agree that whoever has committed the war crimes should be punished. Both fucking sides.
Evil is still evil. I do not agree with oppression politics. People can still choose to not engage. These individuals who have suffered can still realise that butchering the other side isn't good. If they're supporting Hamas, then they implicitly agree with their actions. It's not a position of privilege to disagree with evil. Fuck off with your twisted moralizing.
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First time I've agreed with you. But I can actually agree that whoever has committed the war crimes should be punished. Both fucking sides.
It is !!
This is a position that comes from priviledge. When you live all your life under bombing, when you are constantly put in the street because of colonization and when you lost many and many family member because of an injust and crypto fascist oppressive state and being dehumanized by this state, then you are doomed to engage and be very... very ... VERY angry and tempted to do exactly the same to your ennemies and VERY LITTLE room to actually feel empathy.
Being angry doesn't excuse atrocities but it explains them. And people who are angry and therefore supporting the only people who actually fight back the oppression DON'T deserve to die. In fact, NO ONE deserve to die, not even a monster.
Lack of empathy under pression of war is perfectly human, its not evil. Saying that it is evil will only prevent you from understanding the phenomenon.
This is a position that comes from priviledge. When you live all your life under bombing, when you are constantly put in the street because of colonization and when you lost many and many family member because of an injust and crypto fascist oppressive state and being dehumanized by this state, then you are doomed to engage and be very... very ... VERY angry and tempted to do exactly the same to your ennemies and VERY LITTLE room to actually feel empathy.
Being angry doesn't excuse atrocities but it explains them. And people who are angry and therefore supporting the only people who actually fight back the oppression DON'T deserve to die. In fact, NO ONE deserve to die, not even a monster.
Lack of empathy under pression of war is perfectly human, its not evil. Saying that it is evil will only prevent you from understanding the phenomenon.
Look, I'll put it bluntly: I was tortured for most of my early life -- literal torture. Sexual, mental and physical. I grew up in abstract poverty. I lived on the streets, and my family was displaced by the government housing system and practically abandoned by 'social security' nets.
Years later, still damaged, still hurting, I had the opportunity to kill the person who tortured me. It would have been easy. The person who ruined my life and family and made my life a misery. Right there. Vulnerable.
The choice wasn't even difficult. Of course I wouldn't do it. It's evil. Wrong. I still had morally despite 'oppression'. You're the privileged one, Logiko. You know fuck all. Evil is still evil. Do not absolve people of their sins for things you pity them for. They're still people, not animals you can relinquish judgement from.
Years later, still damaged, still hurting, I had the opportunity to kill the person who tortured me. It would have been easy. The person who ruined my life and family and made my life a misery. Right there. Vulnerable.
The choice wasn't even difficult. Of course I wouldn't do it. It's evil. Wrong. I still had morally despite 'oppression'. You're the privileged one, Logiko. You know fuck all. Evil is still evil. Do not absolve people of their sins for things you pity them for. They're still people, not animals you can relinquish judgement from.
This is essentialism. No Evil is not Evil. Evil is just humans doing evil things. This is a process that can be explained a countered. Its not some divine choice you can or cannot do.
Ok. You lived hard. But now, imagine that, but under bombing. With soldier that points gun at you when you are a kid. Imagine losing 30 member of your family because of those people.
I didn't say you didn't suffer, you did. And for you its surely horrible. But for them, they DON'T have the choice not to be evil most of the time. This is called humanity.
Explaining things is not forgiving them. But sayin "they are evil, they must die" is at best ignorant of the sociology of those people at worse completely dangerous because it puts people who simply are angry in danger. That's the EXACT thing the crypto fascist in power in Israel are using to justify their bombing. dehumnization and essentialism of an entire population.
This leads to ethnical cleansing and genocide very easily as we can see right now in Gaza.
So let's be careful with the E word and how we use it.
You don't know that. You are not at their place. You didn't lost 30 member of your family and right now you are not in a situation of complete despair under bombing wating for death. Under those condition, ANYONE can become a monster. You are not immune to it.
Ok. You lived hard. But now, imagine that, but under bombing. With soldier that points gun at you when you are a kid. Imagine losing 30 member of your family because of those people.
I didn't say you didn't suffer, you did. And for you its surely horrible. But for them, they DON'T have the choice not to be evil most of the time. This is called humanity.
Explaining things is not forgiving them. But sayin "they are evil, they must die" is at best ignorant of the sociology of those people at worse completely dangerous because it puts people who simply are angry in danger. That's the EXACT thing the crypto fascist in power in Israel are using to justify their bombing. dehumnization and essentialism of an entire population.
This leads to ethnical cleansing and genocide very easily as we can see right now in Gaza.
So let's be careful with the E word and how we use it.
You don't know that. You are not at their place. You didn't lost 30 member of your family and right now you are not in a situation of complete despair under bombing wating for death. Under those condition, ANYONE can become a monster. You are not immune to it.
This is nothing but logical and in complete adequation to what I'm saying here. The Hamas compared to others so called "terrorist" structure are the production of anger. This means that this is not evil humans that we are dealing with but people who are just sometimes blinded by their anger.
Some became monsters and must be punished accordingly and with EMPATHY and others remained sain, fighting for what they deem necessary.
That's why you can see both atrocities and also huge empathy for some hostages. This is not one big evil group. its a HUMAN group.
Some became monsters and must be punished accordingly and with EMPATHY and others remained sain, fighting for what they deem necessary.
That's why you can see both atrocities and also huge empathy for some hostages. This is not one big evil group. its a HUMAN group.