Controversial General Political Discussion

[Zenos7]

It has nothing to do with the fact of no caring about oppressed people. Priviledge people are not some kind of Tenryubito who look at the working class with disdain.

It's about being able to understand POLITICALLY and SOCIALLY what other people are living, simply because we are aware of what they are facing everyday. And you can't do that if you are not politically engaged in the action of understanding clearly what those people are living.

For example I'm am a priviledge person on the conditions of gender, sex and in regard to racism. I do NOT face any oppression related to those parameters.. so, how do you expect me to understand what live people who live them if I'm not aware CLEARLY of the walls that those people have to face everyday.

TO that, you need to add the social class, the capitals etc. Writing characters that are not straight white cis men without fetishising them or butchering them is really hard when you are a straight white cis man and it often demand a REAL understanding of the political context behind those representations.

understanding =/= caring though

 

[Ravagerblade]

Lord of the Rings Fantastic Movies
Amazon's Rings of Power utter trash.
Star Wars Good, The Acolyte and several other shows before, Utter trash.

 

[Roo]

You have examples ?

Sure, in The Notebook Ryan Gosling's character is basically summarized as "Male Love interst" There's nothing about him aside from his entire life being dedicated to the protagonist. This is the opposite gender equivalent of the complaint people have of characters such as Mikasa and Sakura.

Another one is Twilight. Edward and Jacob and women's idea of male power fantasy. 2 strong but stoic characters who are fighting for the woman's attention. Most dudes eye roll at this because not only both their personalities are borderline obsessive, but because the Female lead barely does anything to warrant their affection. It's like they were made to serve her.


Mind you I just named the two most popular romance movies/franchises. Trust me, women don't understand men as much as men don't understand women

 

[AL sama]

I'd say the push for "woke" content by executives has led to a lot more shitty writers getting jobs in an industry. Didn't it leak that pixar was hiring people straight from tumblr? Like literal fanfic writers getting jobs lmao

At the end of the day these companies do research, and try to appeal to what they believe is a major demographic in order to make money. If you don't like it, don't buy it or watch it.

true and when people don't buy their trashy products they cry and start labeling people xyz

 

[Uncle Van]

true and when people don't buy their trashy products they cry and start labeling people xyz

Let's be honest here....race and gender is nothing but a tool people use to justify their failures. The Acolyte flopped? Instead of admitting that the writing and show were boring, just blame bigots who hated seeing black female leads 🤷‍♂️(and ignore that women didn't watch the show either since the show still flopped).

 

[AL sama]

Let's be honest here....race and gender is nothing but a tool people use to justify their failures. The Acolyte flopped? Instead of admitting that the writing and show were boring, just blame bigots who hated seeing black female leads 🤷‍♂️(and ignore that women didn't watch the show either since the show still flopped).

couldn't agree more

 

[Roo]

Let's be honest here....race and gender is nothing but a tool people use to justify their failures. The Acolyte flopped? Instead of admitting that the writing and show were boring, just blame bigots who hated seeing black female leads 🤷‍♂️(and ignore that women didn't watch the show either since the show still flopped).

That's because

1. the show sucked
2. The majority of star wars fans are male lol

It's like making a Barbie movie specifically aimed at men lmao.

 

[AL sama]

majority of the people don't/won't care about the agenda-push if a product is good

 

[Roo]

majority of the people don't/won't care about the agenda-push if a product is good

This is true, but if your target audience is already a minority you're risking a lot by making the product specifically targeted at them. You can't blame people for not watching a product that isnt for them

 

[AL sama]

This is true, but if your target audience is already a minority you're risking a lot by making the product specifically targeted at them. You can't blame people for not watching a product that isnt for them

yeah the so-called modern audiences that never shows up

 

[Starbound Beast D. Draig]

yeah the so-called modern audiences that never shows up

 

[Roo]

yeah the so-called modern audiences that never shows up

I don't like the mocking of "modern audiences" because I am sure they exist, it's just these people are not invested enough in your IP to alienate the current audience you have.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Hahaha yep.

 

[Starbound Beast D. Draig]

I don't like the mocking of "modern audiences" because I am sure they exist, it's just these people are not invested enough in your IP to alienate the current audience you have.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I don't like the mocking of "modern audiences" because I am sure they exist, it's just these people are not invested enough in your IP to alienate the current audience you have.

Hence, why the fuck should anybody care about their feelings. Not invested, repeat that over and over again... until it sticks.

 

[Logiko]

No genius. Writing and execution determine everything in entertainment mediums. It's why Aliens(female lead) is great while Charlie's Angels remake(female leads) suck.

No one said that political and social understanding was the only reason to create success Einstein. What I said is that, if you have a bad understanding of those things, you will have bad representations.

Alien was good because there was a deep understanding of the political context of the story. Ripley is not only good because she was well written or badass, but because she fitted very well inside the context of the story. It's was not a simple Alien movie but a political look at capitalism.

understanding =/= caring though

Yes, that's what I said.

You can be a liberal and care, but if you don't take the time to understand any political context linked to the representations or the story, you will not create any good representations.

The Charlie's Angels remake. All of the men in the movie. Even the legendary Partrick Stewart sucked.

Sure, in The Notebook Ryan Gosling's character is basically summarized as "Male Love interst" There's nothing about him aside from his entire life being dedicated to the protagonist. This is the opposite gender equivalent of the complaint people have of characters such as Mikasa and Sakura.

Another one is Twilight. Edward and Jacob and women's idea of male power fantasy. 2 strong but stoic characters who are fighting for the woman's attention. Most dudes eye roll at this because not only both their personalities are borderline obsessive, but because the Female lead barely does anything to warrant their affection. It's like they were made to serve her.


Mind you I just named the two most popular romance movies/franchises.

Yeah, my question was badly asked. The problem with badly written women by men are mainly the sexist tropes, the sexualization and the invisibilisation of women, so the question should rather be, do you get any of those tropes in those character from women as writers ?

I don't see anything fundamentally sexist here. Just simple bad writing. (it's seems the note book was quite a bad movie overall about relationships)

The Acolyte and several other shows before, Utter trash.

I woudn't say that. There are very good ideas in there, the problem comes with the executions. It's really ok, it's just not very good.

true and when people don't buy their trashy products they cry and start labeling people xyz

Developpers are not the one crying mate. Look at this list of "woke" game made by reactionnaries:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...WAkYdDahBrxDiwqWMGsWEcEnpdKTa4/htmlview?pli=1

Instead of admitting that the writing and show were boring, just blame bigots who hated seeing black female leads 🤷‍♂️(and ignore that women didn't watch the show either since the show still flopped).

The problem is that 90 %(yup this is a very real not invented at all number) of the critics I saw are about :

- The witches being all women and making babies on their own
- Black characters (racist comments basically)
- Too much women
- Lore destruction because of wokeness
- Too much women

The rest are people saying "yeah, it's ok, but it's really boring".. me on the front line. You can't be mad at producer when they see that the major reasons why people hate the show is because they are being progressive thus completely ignoring the real reason why the show was not a huge success to begin with.

majority of the people don't/won't care about the agenda-push if a product is good

Exactly. That's my point. When you have a good writer AND a good political content, you get shows like Andors that are ADORED by everyone (except that one Star Wars theorist guy) and there is no problem. But if the show happens to be simply boring... it's a major backlash against "woke and progressive movements".

For reactionnaries :

- Good political woke content : They think it's not woke
- Boring political woke content : They think it's woke.

So don't blame producers when they think the fandom is a bit dumb.

You can't blame people for not watching a product that isnt for them

But those people ARE watching the product that are not made for them. It's not the content that is at fault here (aside from the fact that it need simply better writers), it people who blame woke politics when they see one boring show.

Fun fact : Reactionnaries LOVED Dune 2, they even said that it was an anti woke movie.

Spoiler : It's more woke and politically ULTRA MEGA GIGA more progressive and "woke" than ALL star wars last shows combined (at the exception of Andor).

 

[AL sama]

I don't like the mocking of "modern audiences" because I am sure they exist, it's just these people are not invested enough in your IP to alienate the current audience you have.

they exist and they are a minority but most importantly they usually don't show up that's why they get mocked

I don't understand why companies targets such a niche and then expect to make profit

 

[Uncle Van]

That's because

1. the show sucked
2. The majority of star wars fans are male lol

It's like making a Barbie movie specifically aimed at men lmao.

1) Make a product that deliberately doesn't appeal to the core audience in an attempt to replace them with a new one.
2) Get upset when the core audience doesn't watch the show(bonus points when the director and actors tells them not to watch)
3) Profit

 

[Roo]

Yeah, my question was badly asked. The problem with badly written women by men are mainly the sexist tropes, the sexualization and the invisibilisation of women, so the question should rather be, do you get any of those tropes in those character from women as writers ?

Yeah you do, men are hyper sexualized in these genres. Going back to Twilight Jacob always was shirtless and/or had tight clothes highlighting his muscular build.

I don't see anything fundamentally sexist here. Just simple bad writing. (it's seems the note book was quite a bad movie overall about relationships)

I think there's some benevolent sexism is some writing done by women, idk if the notebook is one but yeah I just mainly used it to show you how bad the romance genre is when it comes to writing men at times.

But those people ARE watching the product that are not made for them. It's not the content that is at fault here (aside from the fact that it need simply better writers), it people who blame woke politics when they see one boring show.

I think you're confusing your average watcher with anti woke people who get paid to shit on things.

Fun fact : Reactionnaries LOVED Dune 2, they even said that it was an anti woke movie.

Spoiler : It's more woke and politically ULTRA MEGA GIGA more progressive than ALL star wars last shows combined (at the exception of Andor).

I literally point out that bad writing plays a role in shows being bad lol

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

they exist and they are a minority but most importantly they usually don't show up that's why they get mocked

I don't understand why companies targets such a niche and then expect to make profit

Because it's a product made to brainwash people, not to profit from it.