Controversial General Political Discussion

[Indigo]

I don't think you understand mate.

Eating is a basic need. Drinking is a basic need. Healing from depression is a basic need. The types of food you eat, schools or religions are NOT basic needs.

Again, parent should not have a say weither a child should have access or not to basic needs. Healing from gender disphoria is not optional for health, it's a BASIC need.

Personally i think it's perfectly fine that trans kids start socially transitioning and even using puberty blockers, which are mostly resersible if the person so chooses later down the line, but HRT and gender affirming surgery should be kept until they are old enough to make that permanent choice.

That way the kid is able to experience some changes while they are growing, which will inform them of their final decision once they are old enough to make it.

If HRT and Gender Affirming surgery will be used before they are old enough, than it should be the parents' decision, and also their responsability if they are wrong about it.

 

[Mathias]

I think kids should have voting rights too

Voting isn’t that much serious anyway. Even though people who work as benevolent at the voting bureau always take their job very seriously …

 

[Logiko]

Personally i think it's perfectly fine that trans kids start socially transitioning and even using puberty blockers, which are mostly resersible if the person so chooses later down the line, but HRT and gender affirming surgery should be kept until they are old enough to make that permanent choice.

Which is exactly what happens in real life. GAS (gender affirming surgeries) are only applied to VERY RARE cases and most of the times on CISGENDER minors and ALWAYS above 12 yo.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/f...geries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820437

than it should be the parents' decision

No it should not. Again. it's a BASIC NEED. What do you not understand in the term BASIC ???

"if they are wrong" ... Well yeah if they were wrong to say no, they will hold responsibility but the kid will be f*cking DEAD.

 

[Indigo]

Which is exactly what happens in real life. GAS (gender affirming surgeries) are only applied to VERY RARE cases and most of the times on CISGENDER minors and ALWAYS above 12 yo.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/f...geries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820437

That's great then, i hope they keep it that way

it should be until they are 18 years old though

No it should not. Again. it's a BASIC NEED. What do you not understand in the term BASIC ???

It's the parents' responsability to make the choice if they are not of age, it's that simple

like i said, the start of assessment and treatment is a basic need, the jump to HRT and gender affirming surgery is not

 

[Logiko]

It's the parents' responsability to make the choice if they are not of age, it's that simple

It should not be the case for BASIC NEEDS.

Yes, HRT and gender affirming surgery CAN become basic needs. Again, we are talking about the prevention of suicide here. I don't think you really understand just how harmfull gender disphoria can really be.

 

[Blax Blah]

 

[Logiko]

That would be anti-capitalist baiting hehe
It's the liberal vision of anti-capitalist and a form of depoliticization.

Another very interesting video on the topic is this one (linked in the leftist Library). It uses Marvel as an example:

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.il...tifying_as_an_animal_in_scotland-8363799.html

 

[Logiko]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.il...tifying_as_an_animal_in_scotland-8363799.html

You got a point ?

 

[MangoSenpai]

And yes, just like a broken arm, gender disphoria can be healed through a treatment. A treatment called gender affirming care in most case, hormone therapy in some cases and in very rare cases gender affirming surgery.

This is not an option, this is a F. NECESSITY.

Am I reading this right, or are you claiming that gender affirming surgery is a neccesity?

A "basic need" on the same level of eating and drinking?

 

[Zenos7]

but HRT and gender affirming surgery should be kept until they are old enough to make that permanent choice.

Kids cant get piercings or tattoos either. And those arent nearly as life-changing.

But then again kids arent getting gender affirming surgery

 

[Logiko]

Am I reading this right, or are you claiming that gender affirming surgery is a neccesity?

A "basic need" on the same level of eating and drinking?

It can become one. Yes. When GAS are the only solution to prevent depression and suicide, then yes, it becomes a basic need.

 

[MangoSenpai]

Kids cant get piercings or tattoos either. And those arent nearly as life-changing.

But then again kids arent getting gender affirming surgery

Tattoos is one thing, but piercings? Are you sure?

At least here in Norway, it is not uncommon at all for young kids to get their ears pierced

 

[Blax Blah]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.il...tifying_as_an_animal_in_scotland-8363799.html

I am going to try to find a source, the only source this article seemingly gives is this:
"The Daily Mail interviewed clinical neuropsychologist Tommy MacKay, who criticized, "We have a council that seems to literally accept the fact that a child identifies as a wolf, rather than being told to get out of this situation and deal with themselves, which would be the common-sense approach."

I will try to find that

But I think it's important to also mention the response of the school:

The school reportedly chose to use the Scottish government's guidelines called Getting It Right For Every Child (Girfec) and the "well-being wheel" to support students regardless of the learning obstacles or challenges they encounter. The previous year, a school in Aberdeenshire (Northern Scotland) had to deny rumors about placing a litter box in the bathroom for a child who identified as a cat.


Species Dysphoria

The student in question suffers from species dysphoria or species incongruence. It is a condition experienced by those who do not identify with their birth species. In this case, feeling like a wolf despite being born human. According to psychology, this often causes discomfort and a depressive mood alteration due to the difficulty in being accepted and feeling free to express oneself in the surrounding world. It is less known than gender dysphoria but is a phenomenon that still involves several people. One can feel like belonging to the most disparate animal species. A phenomenon criticized as representative of an era where people want to identify as anything other than what they are.

So another school had the same rumor and denied it,

This may just be made up,

 

[Zenos7]

Tattoos is one thing, but piercings? Are you sure?

At least here in Norway, it is not uncommon at all for young kids to get their ears pierced

With their parents permission only.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

I am going to try to find a source, the only source this article seemingly gives is this:
"The Daily Mail interviewed clinical neuropsychologist Tommy MacKay, who criticized, "We have a council that seems to literally accept the fact that a child identifies as a wolf, rather than being told to get out of this situation and deal with themselves, which would be the common-sense approach."

I will try to find that

But I think it's important to also mention the response of the school:

The school reportedly chose to use the Scottish government's guidelines called Getting It Right For Every Child (Girfec) and the "well-being wheel" to support students regardless of the learning obstacles or challenges they encounter. The previous year, a school in Aberdeenshire (Northern Scotland) had to deny rumors about placing a litter box in the bathroom for a child who identified as a cat.


Species Dysphoria

The student in question suffers from species dysphoria or species incongruence. It is a condition experienced by those who do not identify with their birth species. In this case, feeling like a wolf despite being born human. According to psychology, this often causes discomfort and a depressive mood alteration due to the difficulty in being accepted and feeling free to express oneself in the surrounding world. It is less known than gender dysphoria but is a phenomenon that still involves several people. One can feel like belonging to the most disparate animal species. A phenomenon criticized as representative of an era where people want to identify as anything other than what they are.

So another school had the same rumor and denied it,

This may just be made up,

According to what you posted, what the school did deny was placing a litter box in the bathroom.

 

[MangoSenpai]

It can become one. Yes. When GAS are the only solution to prevent depression and suicide, then yes, it becomes a basic need.

I really have a hard time believing that, especially with the plethora of people exclaiming great and deep regret of having underwent this kind of surgery.

Even in the most fringe cases, I cannot agree that it is a neccesity for survival in any sense of the word if depression is the symptom you're arguing.
That is not to say depression isn't real, or to discredit the struggles of having to deal with it - but there are certainly ways of working with it that doesn't involve irreversably altering your body.
Though if someone who is of legal age has gone through consultation with the implications of such a surgery still wants to go through with it - more power to them.

 

[Blax Blah]

According to what you posted, what the school did deny was placing a litter box in the bathroom.

Yeah, maybe the student was a furry,

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Yeah, maybe the student was a furry,

Or maybe he was a cat.

 

[Starbound Beast D. Draig]

Yeah, maybe the student was a furry,

Or maybe he was a cat.