Controversial General Political Discussion

[Monkey D Theories]

Though it would be interesting to know how many actually believe themselves to be inherently superior over this

If I were to guess, this is only found in the more extreme sects of Judaism.

The ultra orthodox literally segregate themselves from the rest of the world. The orthodox do this to some extent but not nearly as extreme.

Ultimately the ultra orthodox are a minority in both the US and Israel. The orthodox are larger but still a minority.

most Jews are either non religious or belong to a more moderate sect(reform, conservative, traditional, etc.)

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

And I will say, even the orthodox and ultra orthodox will tell you that every person was created in the image of God. The torah says multiple times that Jews shouldn’t oppress strangers in their land.

There’s still different opinions of Jewish choseness even within those groups. But that said they are more cut off and more likely to hold certain strange views than the rest of the Jewish world.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

Ok, I am just stating that there could be interpretations, but the same people that have an interpretaion of "i spit on christians and I am right" are subsidised by the state, which implicates taht the government supports this behaviours and way of thinking.

I mean it is true that the Israeli government did establish itself as a state for Jews.

but also I don’t think supporting the haredim financially means they actually agree with them. The haredim refuse to fight in wars, some are even anti-Zionist.

I think a lot of leftists also support subsidizing religious education simply out of principle. They think education ought to be free and even “useless majors” have some value.

 

[Daniel]

Violence is usually associated with a negative behavior. Yet, people uses violence in legitimized ways all the time. For example, some use violence to fight oppression and it's is the right thing to do because it is the ETHICAL thing to do.

Are you sure about that?

The terrorists from Hamas thought the same way when they decided to launch that took over a thousand lives in one day and was the catalyst for IDF's retaliation. It is not fair to expect the IDF to do absolutely nothing as a response to the terrorist attack. Not after over a thousand lives, with the majority of these lost lives being innocent were swept away in a single day.

I don't expect a supporter of terrorist attacks such as yourself to understand where the above post is coming from though. I'll just mention that an action of resistance from the other side becomes far removed from the definition of what is deemed "ethical" when the results of that attack killed more civilians + non-combatants than the number of actual soldiers.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Are you sure about that?

The terrorists from Hamas thought the same way when they decided to launch that took over a thousand lives in one day and was the catalyst for IDF's retaliation. It is not fair to expect the IDF to do absolutely nothing as a response to the terrorist attack. Not after over a thousand lives, with the majority of these lost lives being innocent were swept away in a single day.

I don't expect a supporter of terrorist attacks such as yourself to understand where the above post is coming from though.

So you support the indiscriminate murder of children and the rape of prisoners with metal rods by the IDF? Is that retaliation measured and just?

Always with the uninformed/clown takes.

 

[Logiko]

Are you sure about that?

The terrorists from Hamas thought the same way when they decided to launch that took over a thousand lives in one day and was the catalyst for IDF's retaliation. It is not fair to expect the IDF to do absolutely nothing as a response to the terrorist attack. Not after over a thousand lives, with the majority of these lost lives being innocent were swept away in a single day.

I don't expect a supporter of terrorist attacks such as yourself to understand where the above post is coming from though.

No one is expecting the IDF to do nothing. After all, even I, as someone against their actions, recognize their right to defend themselves.

But this should only be done in accordance to international rights and NEVER at the cost of Civilians and I don't care if Hamas is hidding in Tunnel, this is not an excuse.

I don't expect a supporter of terrorist attacks such as yourself to understand where the above post is coming from though.

I'm sorry, what ?

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

There are various interpretations of the “chosen people” thing and not all Jews believe it literally means Jews >> non-Jews.

In any case my personal religious beliefs are irrelevant to the topic of this conversation.

it’s not good etiquette to try to attack people on those lines, you are in fact just being rude.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

50% of Israeli Jews are non religious

and 25% of Israelis aren’t even Jewish

I'm pretty sure condoning genocide isn't good etiquette either. Besides we are on Worstgen not at Versailles.

Apparently, them not being religious doesn't stop them from electing integralist nutjobs or thinking they are better than others.

It is not fair to expect the IDF to do absolutely nothing as a response to the terrorist attack.

Yeah like killing their own citizens together with the terrorists, as it was reported by Israeli witnesses on Israeli newspapers.

 

[NAMELESS]

So you support the indiscriminate murder of children and the rape of prisoners with metal rods by the IDF? Is that retaliation measured and just?

Always with the uninformed/clown takes.

"If you are pro Israel, you support every crime the IDF does". This argument has being thrown around here multiple times. This is as dumb as saying one is pro Hamas for siding with the Palestinian cause. Bait harder.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Well...

 

[Daniel]

Yeah like killing their own citizens together with the terrorists, as it was reported by Israeli witnesses on Israeli newspapers.

This was a serious blunder on their part, but it does not contradict my earlier point that it is unfair to expect them not to make the decision to immediately retaliate as a response.

 

[Toby D. Dog]

This was a serious blunder on their part, but it does not contradict my earlier point that it is unfair to expect them not to make the decision to immediately retaliate as a response.

You're like stuck a year and a half in the past. They obliterated the civilian population. Murdered children in the streets, raped prisoners to death, refuse to let wounded children out of the gaza strip to get medical treatment after suffering life altering injuries due to their own war effort.

But yeah, Israel are the good guys.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

This was a serious blunder on their part, but it does not contradict my earlier point that it is unfair to expect them not to make the decision to immediately retaliate as a response.

It's always "hey guys take it easy with the bombs and stuff, but hey you totally have any right to retaliate, be my guest!"
Btw failed to prevent the invasion despite being warned and having the best secret service, then contributed to massacre their own citizens during said invasion?

 

[Reborn]

The UN commision report which said Israel is committing war crimes, crime against humanity.

Also said this -
Regarding the Israeli and foreign hostages held in Gaza by Palestinian armed groups, the report found that many were mistreated to inflict physical pain and severe mental suffering, including physical violence, abuse, sexual violence, forced isolation, limited access to hygiene facilities, water and food, threats and humiliation.


Report concluded with - Both Israel and Hamas and armed Palestinian organisations are committing gender based violence, war crimes and crime against humanity.

Wanna talk about war crimes - call both out

 

[NAMELESS]

The UN commision report which said Israel is committing war crimes, crime against humanity.

Also said this -
Regarding the Israeli and foreign hostages held in Gaza by Palestinian armed groups, the report found that many were mistreated to inflict physical pain and severe mental suffering, including physical violence, abuse, sexual violence, forced isolation, limited access to hygiene facilities, water and food, threats and humiliation.


Report concluded with - Both Israel and Hamas and armed Palestinian organisations are committing gender based violence, war crimes and crime against humanity.

Wanna talk about war crimes - call both out

Exactly, Israel is literally fighting a terrorist group. This whole war started because of crimes against humanity committed during october 7.

 

[Daniel]

No one is expecting the IDF to do nothing. After all, even I, as someone against their actions, recognize their right to defend themselves.

But this should only be done in accordance to international rights and NEVER at the cost of Civilians and I don't care if Hamas is hidding in Tunnel, this is not an excuse.

I'm sorry, what ?

You stated, word for word, that some use violence to fight against oppression and that it is the ethical thing to do—right in the middle of a discussion about the Israel-Palestine conflict—suggesting that you implicitly support acts of violence if the reasons are supposedly ethical in your eyes.

Does the number of innocents who get entangled and lose their lives in these acts of violence matter, along with the potential consequences?

If you think they do, you'd agree with me on this exact stance that Hamas should never have made that terrorist attack in the first place because by not doing it, all of the death and destruction done by the IDF against Gaza would have been avoided entirely.

The way violence is carried out for a cause, along with the resulting casualties of this attack, profoundly influences the other party's response.

 

[Soyz]

You're like stuck a year and a half in the past. They obliterated the civilian population. Murdered children in the streets, raped prisoners to death, refuse to let wounded children out of the gaza strip to get medical treatment after suffering life altering injuries due to their own war effort.

But yeah, Israel are the good guys.

dont go into a country and kill kidnap and rape people, also lmao that u feel bad for the guy who burned an entire family alive cause he was rped, the guy should be thankfull hes alive.

 

[Zenos7]

You're like stuck a year and a half in the past. They obliterated the civilian population. Murdered children in the streets, raped prisoners to death, refuse to let wounded children out of the gaza strip to get medical treatment after suffering life altering injuries due to their own war effort.

But yeah, Israel are the good guys.

Nice appeal to emotion and strawmanning

 

[Soyz]

I'm pretty sure condoning genocide isn't good etiquette either. Besides we are on Worstgen not at Versailles.

Apparently, them not being religious doesn't stop them from electing integralist nutjobs or thinking they are better than others.

Yeah like killing their own citizens together with the terrorists, as it was reported by Israeli witnesses on Israeli newspapers.

Are you dumb ? this wouldn't have happend if the terrorists would not kidnap them in the firrst place

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2025

It's always "hey guys take it easy with the bombs and stuff, but hey you totally have any right to retaliate, be my guest!"
Btw failed to prevent the invasion despite being warned and having the best secret service, then contributed to massacre their own citizens during said invasion?

continue with your conspiricy theories, like all pro pal u parrot the same shit like a broken record. also i though israel wants to annax gaza and genocide the entire population, why is there a ceasefire starting tommorow

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

So you support the indiscriminate murder of children and the rape of prisoners with metal rods by the IDF? Is that retaliation measured and just?

Report concluded with - Both Israel and Hamas and armed Palestinian organisations are committing gender based violence, war crimes and crime against humanity.

I'm flustered every time y'all show surprise towards act that are and have always been standard practices in war. It's like humans never learn.

 

[Logiko]

You stated, word for word, that some use violence to fight against oppression and that it is the ethical thing to do—right in the middle of a discussion about the Israel-Palestine conflict—suggesting that you implicitly support acts of violence if the reasons are supposedly ethical in your eyes.

Does the number of innocents who get entangled and lose their lives in these acts of violence matter, along with the potential consequences?

Lives always matter. You need to understand that the fight against oppression is a necessary one. If your country fall under fascism, you will have three choice:

- You fight back
- You collaborate
- You run

The most likely in this situation is that you will not have the possibility to run. Which means that the fight becomes the only possibility if you want to keep watching yourself in the mirror because of the atrocities done by the regime. It doesn't mean that you will always use violence, but for some it'sa necessary case.

Resistance is not a game. And yes, sometimes people gets hurt. Ideally people on the ennemy side, but you will see some people go out of the line. It's not a judgment here that I'm making, it's a factual observation. It HAPPENS. Simply because when you live under oppression, you accumulate anger and most people are not build and educated to suppress that.

As for Hamas, we don't talk about a terrorist attack, but an act of war. There is no debate on this. If you don't understand that I will end the conversation.

The action itself of infiltrating the ennemy and attacking soldiers is the normal war act, the problem is that along with soldiers, they were civilians and civilians also on the way.out And it is the attack on those civilians that became a war crime and indeed something that should not have happened.

But this act of horror does not change the fact that actions - sometimes violent - are always necessary against oppressors when there is no other solutions. Israel is doing a genocide now and an appartheid since 70 + years, there needs to be someone resisting. Finally,you need to understand something real quick because it's starting to bug me:

You CAN'T judge the same way the actions of an oppressor and the actions of an oppressed no matter how dramatic they are. Why ? Because it is an ethical necessity. Judging the same way and with the same values the two parties is basically saying that they have both the SAME material condition of existence. Which would be the most ignorant statement of all.

To understand why, listen to those 4 minutes that I have pinned here:

Human are the result of the material conditions of their existence.

If you don't allow humans to have empathy for you and you create the conditions to oppress them daily, their horrific response to you will not be empathetic.

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

Are you dumb ? this wouldn't have happend if the terrorists would not kidnap them in the firrst place

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2025

continue with your conspiricy theories, like all pro pal u parrot the same shit like a broken record. also i though israel wants to annax gaza and genocide the entire population, why is there a ceasefire starting tommorow

I think you are the dumb one and you're not following the thread, I literally posted an Israeli article on why there's a caesefire. Many also speculate that it may end after the hostages are freed.
By the way, we people of the civilized world don't approve the random shooting of civilians just because there's some bad guy around.

 

[Soyz]

No no, people told me they don't care about the hostages and only want to kill palastians. also wtf are u talking about, if u kidnap someone and put him in the trunk, and then the army doesn't know someone in the trunk and blows up the vehicle killing the hostage it's the terrorist fault