Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

They were saying that they have unconscious biases and try to recognize that

In my experience acting like we don’t hold any problematic thoughts or feelings if we consciously disagree with them is foolish.

For example, who is more likely to pass racist legislation: a politician who says that they can never be racist or a politician who says they recognize they can have biases. I’d expect the guy who thinks he can never be racist to not realize possible implications of a policy, while the other guy who recognizes it would be more likely to seek outside perspectives

This might be one of the best post i've seen here.

This is exactly what I'm trying to explain. You did it much better than me. Thank you.


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The reactions on my rethoric here is also one of the reason why I know for a fact that most people on this forum have problem with the understanding of One Piece..

What you are saying very nicely, Oda beautifully portrayed in Fishmen Island.

Making it an amazing demonstration of antiracism. That I think... people completely missed:

While FisherTiger hate human for legitimate reason because of his experience and education, we white people are ALSO racist but for NON legitimate reason, because of our experience and education.

Oda tried to show us the point of view of racialized people to make us understand that biases and hatefull thinking (legitimate or not), comes from EDUCATION and the ENVIRONEMENT.

In other word : the system.

WHile his approach lacked a bit of materialist thinking in targetting precisely the racialization created by the system of "human supremacy". His understanding of systemic conditionning was on point.

 

[eamonpro]

Yes seriously. Did I actually call you a racist or whatever you’re trying to cry about? You asked why people call you that. Did you want people to say “I’m so sorry” or did you want legit tips on communication?

Or did you just want agreement on these two problems and for me to magically make everyone who misunderstAnds you understand you with a snap of my fingers and no change on your part

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

This might be one of the best post i've seen here.

This is exactly what I'm trying to explain. You did it much better than me. Thank you.


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The reactions on my rethoric here is also one of the reason why I know for a fact that most people on this forum have problem with the understanding of One Piece..

What you are saying very nicely, Oda beautifully portrayed in Fishmen Island.

Making it an amazing demonstration of antiracism. That I think... people completely missed:

Didn't Fisher Tiger later go on to help human slaves escape despite what humans have done to him and his people before?
If anything this goes against your point.

Yes seriously. Did I actually call you a racist or whatever you’re trying to cry about? You asked why people call you that. Did you want people to say “I’m so sorry” or did you want legit tips on communication

Sure man, whatever. I don't even care anymore

 

[Mathias]

Oda is racist against humans

Didn't Fisher Tiger later go on to help human slaves escape despite what humans have done to him and his people before?
If anything this goes against your point.

I think the fish-man was on his death-bed there

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Oda is racist against humans



I think the fish-man was on his death-bed there

Either way he constantly helped humans despite how humans traditionally treat fishmen
So it's funny that Logiko, the same guy who said he understands why people hate white people and thinks it's okay, is posting that.

 

[eamonpro]

Didn't Fisher Tiger later go on to help human slaves escape despite what humans have done to him and his people before?
If anything this goes against your point.

Sure man, whatever. I don't even care anymore

Jesus Christ man what fucking shadows are you boxing right now because what did I say that was so offensive to you? You asked why people react in a certaiN way, I pointed out some factors that you actually have control over or might be able to understand, you evidently just wanted “I know lol all these people who would react that way are STUPID HAHAHA!”

That video seems fake af too. He slipped that kid 20 to say it, in my reckoning

 

[Zenos7]

I don’t know about the thing you’re referencing, but I’m sure that conversation as well as the remarks below are not the only things he’s said about them…

Eh i fail to see any anti-muslim bigotry there. Being as critical of islam as he (and the guy i referenced) is is perfectly reasonable and not really their fault that other people are incapable of separating the ideology from its (supposed) adherents.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

That video seems fake af too. He slipped that kid 20 to say it, in my reckoning

There's way more examples of things like that, I just didn't think it was necessary

 

[Zenos7]

I can’t believe I haven’t posted this here yet - I was in my supervisor’s office right after Charlie kicked it, and she was telling me how upset she and her husband were about it and how she felt bad for his wife and kids…and then she said, verbatim and unprompted, “As much as I want to kill Fauci (mispronounced as “Faw-see”) and Biden, they probably have grandkids who love them and would be said if they died”
I think this perfectly encapsulates what we’ve all been saying: right-wing assholes suffer from cognitive dissonance so severe, they’ll demand empathy in literally the same exact breath they use to invoke violence against anyone they don’t like. This was a mother of four telling a coworker that she wanted to kill two people immediately after one died, how are you supposed to have a rational conversation with someone that deranged??

The same is true for the crazy amount of leftist people legit celebrating kirks death while demanding empathy from their political opponents regarding other topics.

This just shows that every category of humans is full of nutjobs

 

[eamonpro]

Eh i fail to see any anti-muslim bigotry there. Being as critical of islam as he (and the guy i referenced) is is perfectly reasonable and not really their fault that other people are incapable of separating the ideology from its (supposed) adherents.

I mean he was a groomer telling teen girls to quit school and submit to Christian men at “women’s leadership conferences” so I don’t see much moral superiority when Charlie Kirk says it

 

[Jew D. Boy]

It CAN be done, folks!! The wealthy still get to hoard enough money to keep their family rich for generations AND regular people don’t have to go broke just to cover essential expenses…seems like a rising tide lifts all ships, who woulda thunk it??

 

[Zenos7]

never hated anyone. Not even the worst genociders.

Mad respect if true. Jesus would be proud

 

[eamonpro]

The same is true for the crazy amount of leftist people legit celebrating kirks death while demanding empathy from their political opponents regarding other topics.

This just shows that every category of humans is full of nutjobs

Yeah the left says mean words about him and asks us not to admit that we actually do want to murder people like we say they do for being mean to our white supremacist daddy!

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Eh i fail to see any anti-muslim bigotry there. Being as critical of islam as he (and the guy i referenced) is is perfectly reasonable and not really their fault that other people are incapable of separating the ideology from its (supposed) adherents.

I wouldn’t say “Islam is the sword that’s slitting the throat of America” is just being constructively critical of the belief system, man…it’s really hard to justify that as an acceptable thing to say in polite society. If he provided any sort of nuanced argument about why he doesn’t support their ideology instead of just saying the cruelest shit that springs to mind, then maybe I’d give it a pass, but that’s definitely not what happened there.

The same is true for the crazy amount of leftist people legit celebrating kirks death while demanding empathy from their political opponents regarding other topics.

This just shows that every category of humans is full of nutjobs

This is just straight “whataboutism,” and we’re demanding empathy for entire swathes of vulnerable communities, not some dipshit bigot who profited off of violence and fearmongering, pretty different things in my eyes. I do agree that people on both sides can be nutjobs, I just see significantly more of them on the right than the left, clearly others disagree based on their own experiences

 

[eamonpro]

Charlie Kirk Stan’s pretending he wasn’t racist and sexist and promoting hatred against Le gay trans menace and a Christian nationalist like we don’t all know who the Charlie fans in our lives are

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Charlie Kirk Stan’s pretending he wasn’t racist and sexist and promoting hatred against Le gay trans menace and a Christian nationalist like we don’t all know who the Charlie fans in our lives are

If I died Charlie would have busted out the expensive champagne in celebration that another black person is gone
No reason to care for a man like that.

 

[Logiko]

Didn't Fisher Tiger later go on to help human slaves escape despite what humans have done to him and his people before?
If anything this goes against your point.

No. It completely sublims my point. This is what you are not getting and why I can't consider you an ally.

I KNOW I have racist biases and sexist bias... you are denying yours. Therefore your rethoric will ALWAYS reflect that denial. And people will be alienated by your word.


Again:

Oda explained it poetically through Fishmen Island.

Hody is not mad at human because of some terrible past, or prejudice, he is the LAST line of hatred before reconstruction.

He is devoided of reason and substance in his fight...

Why ?

Because he is a simple product of his environement.

Hody became hatefull of humans not because of legitimate hate, but because the residual hate of fishmen made him who he was. This hate was clueless, without purpose, so he became a simple warmonger, against both fishmen and human. He is the result of what happens when we share with children a form of hate that is not based on prejudice, but the willingness to hate just to hate.

Technically, it's still very idealistic and therefore bit clanky. But it's a very good basis to understand that we are the product of our systems.

When I tell you that the hatred that Fisher Tiger has was LEGITIMATE

It's the same as when I tell you that it is legitimate for black people to hate white people. You cannot equate their hatred, with our systems of domination.

In the case of One Piece oda clearly showed that they were right to hate, BUT he also explained through Tiger that this hate was not a reason not to seek out and make younger generation learn to love humans.

This is where I put my limit on fishmen Island as a materialist, as Oda is mainly pushing the burden on Fishmen to become more accepted by humans instead of being radicals like I would want them to be, but it's far more than enough to understand the leftist point of view of systemic racism.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

It's the same as when I tell you that it is legitimate for black people to hate white people. You cannot equate their hatred, with our systems of domination.

Oh.. So you mean hating a group based off something that only a certain amount of the group has done, and not all of it?
Intriguing take. Totally never seen it before..

 

[Zenos7]

I mean he was a groomer telling teen girls to quit school and submit to Christian men at “women’s leadership conferences” so I don’t see much moral superiority when Charlie Kirk says it

A statement stands regardless of who is saying it. Charlie had some crazy extreme viewpoints, doesnt make all of them crazy or wrong
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Yeah the left says mean words about him and asks us not to admit that we actually do want to murder people like we say they do for being mean to our white supremacist daddy!

Can you elaborate or rephrase? Im not catching what you are trying to say here

 

[eamonpro]

Oh.. So you mean hating a group based off something that only a certain amount of the group has done, and not all of it?
Intriguing take. Totally never seen it before..

We all do it everyday. The human mind doesn’t jump to nuance first, it jumps to snap sweeping judgements. That’s how an animal survives in the wild. But it is very harmful in human society.

Many people embrace it and say they’re better than every group. Others say it doesn’t exist and act better than those on either end. And many try to actively recognize on a day to day basis when we are doing it.