Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Oh.. So you mean hating a group based off something that only a certain amount of the group has done, and not all of it?
Intriguing take. Totally never seen it before..

No. I mean hatred based of the clear effect of a domination system

If Tiger hated, it's not only because he hated what humans did, but because he knew that the system of human supremacy was too strong for him to face without hatred. It means that he believed that somehow, humans will inevitably reproduce the human supremacy system.

Tiger was kind of the closest thing to a materialist in Fishmen Island in reality. He knew that system shape us eventually. But One Piece is an idealistic story, it romanticize the idea that human can break out of domination system out of pure luck or pure willpower. Something that, in real life, is completely impossible.

So Tiger knew that the best way to make both species understand eachother, was to make them closer by following the dream of Otohime as it would allow for this process to begin in a One Piece fashon. But also knew that it wouldn't prevent hatred completely just like being closer with racialized people do not fix the problems of systems of domination.

In our world, systems of domination are prisons we can't escape because we are born with said education and no matter our level of understanding, our biases are too strong to be annihilated in the span a just a few 60 to 80 years. It's therefore up to US to create a society where said system do not exist. A world where children will not be educated with racist or sexist mindset.

The hate that racialized people are showing to us white people is a defense mechanism, not a testimony that they actually hate us. It's a defense mechanism against the entire system that is systemic racism. Just like women are warry of men in general or non valid people are warry of capitalist people etc.

...

Oops! ... I did it again

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

No. I mean hatred based of the clear effect of a domination system

If Tiger hated, it's not only because he hated what humans did, but because he knew that the system of human supremacy was too strong for him to face without hatred. It means that he believed that somehow, humans will inevitably reproduce the human supremacy system.

Tiger was kind of the closest thing to a materialist in Fishmen Island in reality. He knew that system shape us eventually. But One Piece is an idealistic story, it romanticize the idea that human can break out of domination system out of pure luck or pure willpower. Something that, in real life, is completely impossible.

So Tiger knew that the best way to make both species understand eachother, was to make them closer by following the dream of Otohime as it would allow for this process to begin in a One Piece fashon. But also knew that it wouldn't prevent hatred completely just like being closer with racialized people do not fix the problems of systems of domination.

In our world, systems of domination are prisons we can't escape because we are born with said education and no matter our level of understanding, our biases are too strong to be annihilated in the span a just a few 60 to 80 years. It's therefore up to US to create a society where said system do not exist. A world where children will not be educated with racist or sexist mindset.

The hate that racialized people are showing to us white people is a defense mechanism, not a testimony that they actually hate us. It's a defense mechanism against the entire system that is systemic racism. Just like women are warry of men in general or non valid people are warry of capitalist people etc.

...

Oops! ... I did it again

But he STILL helped humans, right?
And so did Jinbe later on.
So your point of "It's okay for black people to hate white people because white people have done them wrong so many times in the past" is moot. When the series you consistently worship and quote is even saying that you shouldn't let sorrow and hate blind you and make you hate an entire group for the wrongdoings of some of their people, there's no reason for you to still be saying what you are saying.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

How so?

The guy who has only gotten one or two things right in the five years I’ve had the misfortune of seeing him shit his pants over and over again says you’re wrong about something, I’d take that as hard confirmation that you’re actually right

 

[Zenos7]

That’s fair, but I see all the handwringing and pearl clutching as highly performative considering that both right-wing voters and their elected officials have historically AND recently belittled deceased Democrats and leftists in extremely disrespectful and shameful ways, and the fact that they suddenly they wanna be handled with care when the same shit happens to them is hypocrisy of the strongest order. Again, I agree that “left” and “right” are just umbrella terms that don’t account for individualism, but I’d wager most people in this country willingly identify themselves because it’s simpler than explaining every single one of their views at any given time.

completely agree on the bolded part. fuck em.

 

[eamonpro]

A statement stands regardless of who is saying it. Charlie had some crazy extreme viewpoints, doesnt make all of them crazy or wrong

Post automatically merged: Monday at 8:38 PM

Can you elaborate or rephrase? Im not catching what you are trying to say here

I’m saying when you say “the same is true” you’re ignoring that the guy the left is making jokes about has been calling the left demons as he grooms children towards Christianity and tells little girls to submit to Christian men on traditional ation. GROOMER. That is factually pedo shit. His

To act like the left wants people dead for debating is willful ignorance of the true depths of what TPUSA became, and

That sentence is
A) true
B) not anti-muslim bigotry

I think Charlie Kirk was more of a sword slitting the neck of America. He was actively holding “women’s leadership conferences” where he and the other keynote speakers told the girls (largely teens) to submit to men and that education is not for women. He and his followers are supporting taking women’s rights back while selling his followers fear of loss of women’s rights.

Again, he wasn’t “racist or sexist” that’s not the extent of why people hated him. Trump and the right wants to tell you people hate him because “the radical left media” or whatever told them he was mean. Fact is we know he ran a media empire trying to facilitate mass grooming of our little girls and he supported radical action like taking away the civil rights act.

The fact is while he can hide behind “just opinions,” his opinions were on taking away the rights of and grooming the children of his enemies. And it was a multimillion dollar machine pushing for isolation and radicalization of conservative viewpoints, not free conversation. Getting all his viewers to argue that he totally wasn’t racist or sexist and that we need to all be Christian and our daughters should submit was a deliberate, insidious strategy by the right to turn our nations children radical. He was paid a lot for it.

The right screams about division from the left while he worked to turn the “moderate” right into a white supremacist anti woman group. Are you pro pumping millions into taking away women’s rights and repealing the civil rights act

Post automatically merged: Monday at 8:58 PM

You are wrong.

You would’ve.

 

[Ravagerblade]

How so?

You really don't know anything if that's what you assume. As this clearly reads as, I don't know anything about Charlie except the small clips that i've seen that could paint in a bad light, over the full context of things. If you don't like him, fine, but don't lie.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 9:11 PM

 

[eamonpro]

You really don't know anything if that's what you assume. As this clearly reads as, I don't know anything about Charlie except the small clips that i've seen that could paint in a bad light, over the full context of things. If you don't like him, fine, but don't lie.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 9:11 PM

Reee stop being mean to Charlie stop right nyow

 

[Zenos7]

I’m saying when you say “the same is true” you’re ignoring that the guy the left is making jokes about has been calling the left demons as he grooms children towards Christianity and tells little girls to submit to Christian men on traditional ation. GROOMER. That is factually pedo shit. His

To act like the left wants people dead for debating is willful ignorance of the true depths of what TPUSA became, and

Ok, i guess i kind of adressed this with my other post here:

I couldnt care less about the views of someone who got assassinated in this vile way. If anyone celebrates his death, their highkey insane imo.

Im fine with mocking the guy and his views generally, or even joking about the irony of him dying to gun violence. But actually celebrating his death? Yeah no.

 

[Logiko]

So your point of "It's okay for black people to hate white people because white people have done them wrong so many times in the past" is moot. When the series you consistently worship and quote is even saying that you shouldn't let sorrow and hate blind you and make you hate an entire group for the wrongdoings of some of their people, there's no reason for you to still be saying what you are saying.

I think you are acting like most black people are just hatin and doing nothing more:

Let me tell you a little secret

.......................



Hatefull, biases, legitimate or not do NOT prevent us from doing actual good.

I learned EVERYTHING I know about materialist thinking, leftism and anti oppressive struggles / the way to build a better society, from racialized and marginalized people (black, muslims, jew, arabs, LGBTQI+, non valid) who shared their knowledge and didn't let their hatred for the oppressor define their battle against all systems of domination.

Usually IF YOU LISTEN CLOSELY when a racialized person says "white people this, white people that", you will also hear from them, or in their circle, people explain how to fight that and create a better world.

Essentialism and interpersonnal hatred when it comes from the oppressed is a legitimate reaction to a system of domination, but it's the action that people take BEYOND THIS HATRED that really matters:

Look around! Black people are not just hatin white people, for belonging to a system that discriminate them everyday.

They are fighting to end oppression everywhere !!

 

[Zenos7]

But he STILL helped humans, right?
And so did Jinbe later on.
So your point of "It's okay for black people to hate white people because white people have done them wrong so many times in the past" is moot. When the series you consistently worship and quote is even saying that you shouldn't let sorrow and hate blind you and make you hate an entire group for the wrongdoings of some of their people, there's no reason for you to still be saying what you are saying.

like how in naruto towards the end it was all about breaking the circle of vengeance because at the end of the day, its not helping anyone.

 

[eamonpro]

Ok, i guess i kind of adressed this with my other post here:

What is “actually celebrating” it feels extremely arbitrary if you’re ok with that other shit

Just like we thought crimes now, if you dare feel any gladness that your daughter won’t be groomed by Charlie Kirk you are “highly insane?”

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

You really don't know anything if that's what you assume. As this clearly reads as, I don't know anything about Charlie except the small clips that i've seen that could paint in a bad light, over the full context of things. If you don't like him, fine, but don't lie.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 9:11 PM

"I think the civil rights act was a mistake" - Charlie Kirk

I think you are acting like most black people are just hatin and doing nothing more:

Nope. Actually I never even suggested that.
Hell, the vast majority of black people I've met have never once unironically said they despise white people.
I'm just saying that the ones who do are misguided, as unnecessary hatred can only ever breed more unnecessary hatred.

 

[Ravagerblade]

"I think the civil rights act was a mistake" - Charlie Kirk

Nope. Actually I never even suggested that.
Hell, the vast majority of black people I've met have never once unironically said they despise white people.
I'm just saying that the ones who do are misguided, as unnecessary hatred can only ever breed more unnecessary hatred.

Again. Context. Give the full context. I told you not to just look at small clips.

 

[Zenos7]

I think Charlie Kirk was more of a sword slitting the neck of America. He was actively holding “women’s leadership conferences” where he and the other keynote speakers told the girls (largely teens) to submit to men and that education is not for women. He and his followers are supporting taking women’s rights back while selling his followers fear of loss of women’s rights.

Again, he wasn’t “racist or sexist” that’s not the extent of why people hated him. Trump and the right wants to tell you people hate him because “the radical left media” or whatever told them he was mean. Fact is we know he ran a media empire trying to facilitate mass grooming of our little girls and he supported radical action like taking away the civil rights act.

The fact is while he can hide behind “just opinions,” his opinions were on taking away the rights of and grooming the children of his enemies. And it was a multimillion dollar machine pushing for isolation and radicalization of conservative viewpoints, not free conversation. Getting all his viewers to argue that he totally wasn’t racist or sexist and that we need to all be Christian and our daughters should submit was a deliberate, insidious strategy by the right to turn our nations children radical. He was paid a lot for it.

The right screams about division from the left while he worked to turn the “moderate” right into a white supremacist anti woman group. Are you pro pumping millions into taking away women’s rights and repealing the civil rights act

yeah its not a secret that the US has its issues with christian nationalists. Im not trying to say that charlie didnt spread dangerous rhetoric, he definitely did. still doesnt make all of his opinions wrong or crazy.

edit: an important note maybe that i dont necessarily think he did that shit to take womens rights away, its just that he was passionate about his religion and furthering the agenda of his religion and probably thought this was the best for women. Still very troubling, but i like to operate on Hanlons razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

 

[eamonpro]

Again. Context. Give the full context. I told you not to just look at small clips.

Why didn’t you post it?

The full context is DEI bad so we need to remove the law making discrimination in public illegal.

Do you think it should be repealed? Go into why, be specific with what the law actually does

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Again. Context. Give the full context. I told you not to just look at small clips.

That is the full context. What, do you think he later said "Nah I was just pulling your leg guys I actually love black people in fact my best friend is from Africa"?
Because if that were the case it makes it very interesting he also said this:
https://www.instagram.com/ricardosalvadormiranda/reel/DOomDxPErnM/

 

[eamonpro]

yeah its not a secret that the US has its issues with christian nationalists. Im not trying to say that charlie didnt spread dangerous rhetoric, he definitely did. still doesnt make all of his opinions wrong or crazy.

I think it’s crazy for someone actively getting millions to groom our youth on their phones to say anyone else is “the” sword on America’s throat. And I think most Muslims in America aren’t worse than most Christian’s

And I think if we go after Islam, we gotta go after Christianity too. Case in point: Charlie Kirk. Who more effectively pushed our youth towards a racial supremacist anti woman view than the Christian right and their moneyed interests in taking our kids

 

[Logiko]

I'm just saying that the ones who do are misguided, as hatred can only ever breed more hatred.

No, they are not missguided, they are pressured by a system of domination that prevent's them from having anything other than resentment in their heart.

Hatred can indeed only breed hatred, but to start being lovefull, one needs the material condition of existence that will allow them to distances themselves for the system that is destroying them.

This is where Fisher Tiger and Otohime are imporatant. But not all black or oppressed people have the luck to live with a fisher Tiger that is allowing them to elevate their material condition of existence.

If I was in my situation without the social and cultural capital that I have now (and that I aquired because I was born in the middle class) that is allowing me to elevate my thinking and my condition, I would be in the streets hating on rich and valid people right now, not talking to you.

You can't ask oppressed people to be nice when they are being bullied into dehumanization.

 

[eamonpro]

yeah its not a secret that the US has its issues with christian nationalists. Im not trying to say that charlie didnt spread dangerous rhetoric, he definitely did. still doesnt make all of his opinions wrong or crazy.

edit: an important note maybe that i dont necessarily think he did that shit to take womens rights away, its just that he was passionate about his religion and furthering the agenda of his religion and probably thought this was the best for women. Still very troubling, but i like to operate on Hanlons razor "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Shut the fuck up, disingenuous ass. “Nooo he was just passionate about his religion” lmfao while arguing anti woman religion is the sword on our nations throat

Goodbye

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

No, they are not missguided, they are pressured by a system of domination that prevent's them from having anything other than hatred in their heart.

That's very rarely the case especially given how many black people, including me, have no hatred in their hearts for (most) white people anyway.