Controversial General Political Discussion

[Okamakama]

Oh it's already here. Basically everything you can think of in the US, exist in Europe, sometimes in worst. I now consider myself leaving in a proto-fascist country (some consider France to have already fallen into fascism), Italy has fallen, Germany is about to fall, the East has fallen, Great Britain is falling head on. It will get worse and worse until something really horrible happens for white people.. I have some faith with Spain and some other nordic countries tho...

Thing is, this reactionary wave is happening due to native populaces feeling displaced and their cultures eroded. You may have your opinions that, you might disagree or you may think it's some kind of justice, but without confronting that reality face-on the left cannot even hope to grasp this situation.

I am English, and I can state that the majority of native white English and Brits hold right-wing opinions. Heck, there was data from 2020 that the overall populace of the UK was far more right leaning than what any political party was offering. It's why we had the Conservative party for so long until it was clear they'd betrayed the people.

Now that Restore have thrown their hat into the ring, I've seen many people quietly supporting them. I feel this will become the trend across Europe.

 

[Logiko]

Thing is, this reactionary wave is happening due to native populaces feeling displaced and their cultures eroded. You may have your opinions that, you might disagree or you may think it's some kind of justice, but without confronting that reality face-on the left cannot even hope to grasp this situation.

I am English, and I can state that the majority of native white English and Brits hold right-wing opinions. Heck, there was data from 2020 that the overall populace of the UK was far more right leaning than what any political party was offering. It's why we had the Conservative party for so long until it was clear they'd betrayed the people.

Now that Restore have thrown their hat into the ring, I've seen many people quietly supporting them. I feel this will become the trend across Europe.

Yeah.. I mean, this is something we have seen coming for many years, I remember talking about it here three years ago in this thread and it has been scaring me for more.. Fascism is coming and it will become too strong too fast. Without trying to be alarmist, we are the beginning of the chain reaction.

We have the material and a shot at stopping the wave tho, which is something that people in the 30' lacked.. but we gotta radicalize and politicize real fast, real good.

In France, having the same position of the soft left of 80' will make you a radical leftist in the eyes of the establishment. So only a real radical positionning can counter the danger.

We need to wake up everyone around us and pull them toward a leftist radicalization. As long as a strong minority keeps a strong stance, we should be able to spread the words, at least that what the studies show.

 

[Okamakama]

Yeah.. I mean, this is something we have seen coming for many years, I remember talking about it here three years ago in this thread and it has been scaring me for more.. Fascism is coming and it will become too strong too fast. Without trying to be alarmist, we are the beginning of the chain reaction.

We have the material and a shot at stopping the wave tho, which is something that people in the 30' lacked.. but we gotta radicalize and politicize real fast, real good.

In France, having the same position of the soft left of 80' will make you a radical leftist in the eyes of the establishment. So only a real radical positionning can counter the danger.

We need to wake up everyone around us and pull them toward a leftist radicalization. As long as a strong minority keeps a strong stance, we should be able to spread the words, at least that what the studies show.

I am personally right-leaning, and hold onto similar sentiments to my fellow brits. I want to see the chain reaction. The stuff happening in the UK is not Trumpism, and we need to stop equating things to America. I'll be transparent. I don't think deporting people is inhumane, especially if they've already broken the laws.

There are ghettos in my own town where illegals commit some of the highest levels of crimes. I had to stop buying from a milkman service because they'd walk across town, enter my neighbourhood and steal the milk and eggs left by my door in the morning. I even caught one trying to dump stuff in my skip, and even rob from it. When I confronted him he couldn't even communicate in English and he seemed to believe I would just let him do what he wanted.

Perhaps some will think me cruel, but I just do not care if they're needy. It's not my nor other's duty to look after those who have never belonged to their culture, will never integrate, and will actively commit more crimes and expect handouts.

You can send me statistics, but my lived reality is in complete contradiction. Live in neighbourhoods where people brick windows for no reason, intimidate the women of your family through leering, approaching, and shouting, and you'll gradually start thinking that way too. My wife doesn't want to walk unattended through my town because of this issue. My mother-in-law, a 72 year old woman, was almost assaulted for going on a walk by illegals or those who have failed to integrate. And no, it is not the duty of the state to integrate them. Legal migrants are guests, they shouldn't get handouts, and they shouldn't get assistance. They should contribute because they were given the right to live there.

EDIT: To confirm, I am more than happy to pay for social programmes which benefit the needy of my people. Those who truly see my land as home. Those who have integrated into British culture. I'm very left leaning on those topics. We should have ways to protect those who are genuinely needy, but we cannot prioritise strangers. That is a luxury position and it simply cannot continue anymore.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Imagine calling Macron a fascist

Wait

Yeah he's basically a modern day Mussolini without the Militarism

Move along

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1rfwxk7
A: More important than ever to realize the only media worth listening to, are those villanized by the government and media

B: How many conservatives are so high on Cheeto Pedo's lies, they actually still think that liberals run the media? That's hilarious, honestly.

They're so bad at being correct, they actually want to tell you that the media that has been covering up a gang of international child rapists for decades, is bias towards they're victims.

I enjoy talking to trees and rocks more, because at the very least, they aren't lying frauds who support terrorists that profit off of trading kids as sex slaves, when they're not bombing them.

C: Israel is really desperate to monopolize the media even more to try to brainwash people into accepting the lie that they aren't a rogue terrorist state.


CNN has been horse refuse ever since they chose to suck up to a known sex criminal blackmailed by Zionists, over a real Jew like Bernie Sanders, so, this is on brand for them.

 

[Okamakama]

By the way, despite my right-wing leaning, I have very much drifted from support for Israel, especially after the potential Epstein links. That rabbit hole is deep and dark. Fuck them, really. I'd be happy to see their downfall.

 

[Logiko]

Perhaps some will think me cruel, but I just do not care if they're needy

I mean... look at what you are saying. You know people need help, and you refuse to give that help.

You can send me statistics, but my lived reality is in complete contradiction.

No it's not a contradiction, in fact your post here is in complete accordance with the material reality of the world. You are just looking at "A" and instead of saying "it's A therefore we shall act like it A" you say "it's B therefore we should act like it's B", when in reality acting like its "B" is the reason why it's "A" in the first place.

People need a better understanding. That's what I mean when I say "we need to politicize". Because it's easy to see a situation of insecurity or an illegal act by a "migrant" and create a relationship of causality between the two. It's a human bias.

But leftism is about understanding our reality and going OVER our own biases.

- It's understanding why people from the global south are coming in Europe
- It's understanding our responsibility in their situation
- It's understanding how poverty works
- It's understanding the system that creates isolation and the precarization of these people
- It's understanding that the imperialist system is marginalizing them on PURPOSE just like our institutions are marginalizing people like me.
- It's understanding that racialized people "playing by the book to be an example" is not a feature of good integration but a feature of colonization, racialization and white supremacy.
- It's understanding that if your first reflex when you see people - you know are "needy" - steal food, is to blame their integration and migration, there is a more potent problem at play.

And most of all

- It's understanding that the system directed at them, is just waiting for you to get rid of those people to direct its gun toward YOU.

So yeah.. It IS our responsibility to help them because we DESTROYED them FIRST and because helping them mean helping OURSELVES.

People don't migrate out of luxury without paper, they do it because it's a question of survival, and yeah. There is a harsh reality in the fact that scarity, poverty, marginalization, push people toward more and more and more dangerous behaviors, toward thieving and toward crime. The exceptions that manage to escape that paradigm are held as example to blame the other. In other words, they are not really escaping racism, they are used as tools to dehumanize the others.


You wanna beat insecurity? Ok. Help us create a society where people are not marginalized anymore. This mean creating spaces for these people to be treated with respect because they won't stop coming just because you put a wall. We destroyed them and it's time to pay the due.

Don't fall for the biases, don't fall for the easy solutions

.. or the system will use the weapons that destroyed them to destroy you.

Remember this:

Fascism is colonialism turned inward

Imagine calling Macron a fascist

Wait

Yeah he's basically a modern day Mussolini without the Militarism

Move along

A government is more than just one man. And what you see from what person can sometimes be completely different from the reality of their actuel impact.

Macron is is a phase of fascization, some of its governement is already there. You probably don't see it because you are not impacted, but I'm, and others are too, in fact much more than me. People living in CRA, people who risk being arrested from protesting a genocide, people being tracked through surveillance, people being politically repressed.

Perhaps you don't see that. But it's already here and its not just Macron.

> In the last 4 years, 12 people have been murdered by far right individuals because of racist and fascist ideologies.
> 56 people have been killed by the far right against 6 by the far left since 1986
> The president of the assemblee AND the senate refused an hommage to be rendered for for Aboubakar Cissé, killed in a mosque, stabbed 57 times by a far rightist because he was muslim.


Yet..

This is what the assemble did for a LITERAL NAZI
(The guy was part of literal and non exagerated Neo-Nazi rallies and organizations)

So yeah, fascism is already here in France.

 

[Midnight Delight]

yeah, fascism is already here in France.

Not yet
Le Pen has yet to be elected

 

[Midnight Delight]

And once she is Elected
There would be NO going back

Same with Trump

Once she breaks the "common sense" preposition that Far Right Parties are unelectable, you will see Center to Right Parties forming coalitions with them, and once that happens, i don't have to say it

 

[Roo]

Pakistan is really in a bad position

With Taliban's Pashtun irredentism and what's happening in Iran potentially opening a Baloch front

It's actually interesting to see if they would throw nukes if things get too heated up, let's not forget that the CIA confirmed that Putin was about to do that in 2022 and it took a unified front of the west India and China telling him not to do it to stop it

Pakistan spent all these years funding the taliban only for them to later call them an Indian colony actual retards lmao

 

[Logiko]

Not yet
Le Pen has yet to be elected

For Le Pen to be elected and fascism to be fully implemented, it needs to be prepared first and the power given to the fascist just like the power was given to fascist in germany in 32. This means that fascism needs to rise from the system to be effective.
And when we observe closely, all the parameters are already checked.

Once she breaks the "common sense" preposition that Far Right Parties are unelectable, you will see Center to Right Parties forming coalitions with them, and once that happens, i don't have to say it

Yup, game over.

Perhaps the far right in France will use the Trump method, use a first term to test the ground, weaken the institution and be reelected and a second one to completely wreck everything. I don't know yet.

 

[Okamakama]

I mean... look at what you are saying. You know people need help, and you refuse to give that help.



No it's not a contradiction, in fact your post here is in complete accordance with the material reality of the world. You are just looking at "A" and instead of saying "it's A therefore we shall act like it A" you say "it's B therefore we should act like it's B", when in reality acting like its "B" is the reason why it's "A" in the first place.

People need a better understanding. That's what I mean when I say "we need to politicize". Because it's easy to see a situation of insecurity or an illegal act by a "migrant" and create a relationship of causality between the two. It's a human bias.

But leftism is about understanding our reality and going OVER our own biases.

- It's understanding why people from the global south are coming in Europe
- It's understanding our responsibility in their situation
- It's understanding how poverty works
- It's understanding the system that creates isolation and the precarization of these people
- It's understanding that the imperialist system is marginalizing them on PURPOSE just like our institutions are marginalizing people like me.
- It's understanding that racialized people "playing by the book to be an example" is not a feature of good integration but a feature of colonization, racialization and white supremacy.
- It's understanding that if your first reflex when you see people - you know are "needy" - steal food, is to blame their integration and migration, there is a more potent problem at play.

And most of all

- It's understanding that the system directed at them, is just waiting for you to get rid of those people to direct its gun toward YOU.

So yeah.. It IS our responsibility to help them because we DESTROYED them FIRST and because helping them mean helping OURSELVES.

People don't migrate out of luxury without paper, they do it because it's a question of survival, and yeah. There is a harsh reality in the fact that scarity, poverty, marginalization, push people toward more and more and more dangerous behaviors, toward thieving and toward crime. The exceptions that manage to escape that paradigm are held as example to blame the other. In other words, they are not really escaping racism, they are used as tools to dehumanize the others.


You wanna beat insecurity? Ok. Help us create a society where people are not marginalized anymore. This mean creating spaces for these people to be treated with respect because they won't stop coming just because you put a wall. We destroyed them and it's time to pay the due.

Don't fall for the biases, don't fall for the easy solutions

.. or the system will use the weapons that destroyed them to destroy you.

Remember this:

Fascism is colonialism turned inward

I will say this. I acknowledge they're needy, but their needs are not my concern. I do not believe believe that all people need to be protected by me. I'll care for my own before I care for strangers. Many appear to be oikophobic these days and show preferences towards outsiders. I find this odd because paradoxically, many individuals with these tendencies seem to herald minorities for having in-group preferences but demonise majorities for the same behaviours.

Regardless of what leads people to migrate, it is not the duty of the populace of their new lands to welcome them. I only care for what they can provide, not for what they've undergone, especially when my own homeland is being bled dry by politicians and failing social systems.

I do not wish to see my culture eroded by another. I do not like that they say they wish to turn my country into something it has never been (openly advocating for Sharia Law for one). Regardless of what pity I may have felt, the moment they approached me like an invader or coloniser is the moment I treated them as opposition. It's hard to deny this reality if you've lived in England's poorest areas.

You're incorrect though. Criminality is not all desperation. It is as much opportunism. They see an opportunity and take it. When I was a child, I was homeless. My family did not result to assaulting and robbing people. My mother worked two jobs as a single woman. You cannot excuse bad behaviour so simply.

However, I can see that you have a beating heart, one that genuinely seems to care, and in some ways, I do respect that. But in this instance I believe those affections are misplaced. You peddle in as much fear-mongering as the right you bemoan. This is a common issue among those who don't have a strong sense of patriotism or national identity. They believe all cultures are the same, that they can coexist within the same space without friction, that the new regime would try and oppress the natives because they must hate them as much as they seemingly hate themselves.

Your sympathies do not seem to lie with the struggling natives, only those who you see as "victims" in your wider hierarchy. Different priorities I suppose?

I do have a question: Do you think the native populations are entirely wrong? Do you find their concerns unimportant?

In the grand scheme, I am happy for other cultures to exist. I value them, but I'd prefer them to exist in their own countries, not try to supplant the cultural identity of my own nation. I am proud of my country's history, customs and values.

What is going to happen in Europe in the near future is not what the Nazi's did. If it turns out that way, then ah well. One way or another I'd be ruined, so I'd rather it be at the hands of my people than the growing minority - soon to be majority - which is known for going full puritan the moment they gain any semblance of power.

 

[Blax Blah]

I will say this. I acknowledge they're needy, but their needs are not my concern. I do not believe believe that all people need to be protected by me. I'll care for my own before I care for strangers. Many appear to be oikophobic these days and show preferences towards outsiders. I find this odd because paradoxically, many individuals with these tendencies seem to herald minorities for having in-group preferences but demonise majorities for the same behaviours.

Regardless of what leads people to migrate, it is not the duty of the populace of their new lands to welcome them. I only care for what they can provide, not for what they've undergone, especially when my own homeland is being bled dry by politicians and failing social systems.

I do not wish to see my culture eroded by another. I do not like that they say they wish to turn my country into something it has never been (openly advocating for Sharia Law for one). Regardless of what pity I may have felt, the moment they approached me like an invader or coloniser is the moment I treated them as opposition. It's hard to deny this reality if you've lived in England's poorest areas.

You're incorrect though. Criminality is not all desperation. It is as much opportunism. They see an opportunity and take it. When I was a child, I was homeless. My family did not result to assaulting and robbing people. My mother worked two jobs as a single woman. You cannot excuse bad behaviour so simply.

However, I can see that you have a beating heart, one that genuinely seems to care, and in some ways, I do respect that. But in this instance I believe those affections are misplaced. You peddle in as much fear-mongering as the right you bemoan. This is a common issue among those who don't have a strong sense of patriotism or national identity. They believe all cultures are the same, that they can coexist within the same space without friction, that the new regime would try and oppress the natives because they must hate them as much as they seemingly hate themselves.

Your sympathies do not seem to lie with the struggling natives, only those who you see as "victims" in your wider hierarchy. Different priorities I suppose?

I do have a question: Do you think the native populations are entirely wrong? Do you find their concerns unimportant?

In the grand scheme, I am happy for other cultures to exist. I value them, but I'd prefer them to exist in their own countries, not try to supplant the cultural identity of my own nation. I am proud of my country's history, customs and values.

What is going to happen in Europe in the near future is not what the Nazi's did. If it turns out that way, then ah well. One way or another I'd be ruined, so I'd rather it be at the hands of my people than the growing minority - soon to be majority - which is known for going full puritan the moment they gain any semblance of power.

As if what the right has, the economic value you produced being stolen from you, and embracing the interests of the economic class of people whose economic interest it is to pay you as little as possible, for as much work as possible, takes care of your own



If you want to betray yourself and your nation, be right wing, because

What the right has destroys both the nation and the immigrants

What workers' movements have supports both the nation and the immigrants

 

[Okamakama]

As if what the right has, the value you produced being stolen from you, takes care of your own


What the right has destroys both the nation and the immigrants

What workers' movements have supports both the nation and the immigrants

The communistically aligned party in my country campaign for full open borders.

If you asked me what I'd prefer - the desolation of my culture but semi-wealthy, or poor but culturally in-tact, I know what I would take every single time.

Ironically, you're appearing rather materialistic in your viewpoint, Blax.

 

[Blax Blah]

The communistically aligned party in my country campaign for full open borders.

If you asked me what I'd prefer - the desolation of my culture but semi-wealthy, or poor but culturally in-tact, I know what I would take every single time.

Ironically, you're appearing rather materialistic in your viewpoint, Blax.

What culture does your country have?

What does culture mean to you, how has it served you, and is your current idea of that culture worth destroying a bunch of people's hopes, and installing a party whose literal economic interest is for you ( and your kids and grandkids etc etc ) to get paid less and work more?

You can call me materialistic, I'm a materialist if materialism means just looking at the factors involved and making an analysis based off that

 

[Reborn]

I didn't know that US so far was having elections without a voter ID card for identification.. Bizzare

 

[Blax Blah]

By the way, there are many people your age who grew up poor, abused by parents, bullied, and other lots of bad stuff

How about ask them, what your country's culture is and what it means to them

Instead of projecting your own life experience and making it into an idol called culture

 

[Okamakama]

What culture does your country have?

What does culture mean to you, how has it served you, and is your current idea of that culture worth destroying a bunch of people's hopes, and installing a party whose literal economic interest is for you ( and your kids and grandkids etc etc ) to get paid less and work more?

You can call me materialistic, I'm a materialist if materialism means just looking at the factors involved and making an analysis based off that

Culture is comprised of values, the beliefs, the history, customs and behaviours of a people. It is about belonging and shared connectivity. If you ask me if it's worth it to destroy people's hopes? Yes. If they do not integrate into that culture then they should not leech off of or take advantage of said culture and what it has built as if it were solely an economic structure.

The same policies you support will lead to another form of decay and destitution. The party in my country that most aligns with you would open the borders, overburdening our nations. When the population inflates there will even more power in the hands of employers to push down wages and force us to fight like slaves for the scraps. There is no easy fix here on an economic scale.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Pakistan spent all these years funding the taliban only for them to later call them an Indian colony actual retards lmao

Pakistan and Taliban
Russia and Wagner
Israel and Hamas/Sharaa

Pretty hilarious to see how all of these played out tbh

The Prince truly fucked Foreign Policies for centuries to come

 

[Blax Blah]

Culture is comprised of values, the beliefs, the history, customs and behaviours of a people. It is about belonging and shared connectivity. If you ask me if it's worth it to destroy people's hopes? Yes. If they do not integrate into that culture then they should not leech off of or take advantage of said culture and what it has built as if it were solely an economic structure.

The same policies you support will lead to another form of decay and destitution. The party in my country that most aligns with you would open the borders, overburdening our nations. When the population inflates there will even more power in the hands of employers to push down wages and force us to fight like slaves for the scraps. There is no easy fix here on an economic scale.

So how about forming a workers' organization that empowers the workers through organisation, to get higher wages?