Controversial General Political Discussion
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Your example is stupid. The actual scenario would be if John after raping the girls said that they were serial killers and he was justified in raping them and some retards defended John because of supposed crimes of the girls. If you are trying to use a example use the proper scenario.
Considering that you seem to ignore the proper definition of terrorism and the charter of Hamas, I doubt you know even a little about terrorism. Like, I said, you are too focused on your own stupid ideas that you are unable to see beyond your own ass.
Trying to defend terrorists by shifting the blame and not using the same argument when dealing with Jews., When terrorists kills: the ones that kill were guilt, when a group in Israel kill: every Palestinian is justified in killing jews. This is hypocrisy.
I don't need to lie for the likes of you. You just have to try to think for more than a second.
Nope. This is again just proving your ignorance and prejudice.
When people have their asses on fire they adapt or die. When clerks that studied for years to get a job in court and even got a degree got fired because of computers (and this was actually very quiet in my country- dozens of companies that dealt with it turned obsolete just in my city), people adapted. Fake regulations made to protect lazy people just hinder progress.
Yeah, yeah. Deal with the argument instead of trying to deflect with personal attacks. And even this attack is false. I assume that people adapt instead of protecting people thinking they would be unable to. I prefer to give them the benefit of doubt than just assume they are useless outright.
Considering that you seem to ignore the proper definition of terrorism and the charter of Hamas, I doubt you know even a little about terrorism. Like, I said, you are too focused on your own stupid ideas that you are unable to see beyond your own ass.
Trying to defend terrorists by shifting the blame and not using the same argument when dealing with Jews., When terrorists kills: the ones that kill were guilt, when a group in Israel kill: every Palestinian is justified in killing jews. This is hypocrisy.
I don't need to lie for the likes of you. You just have to try to think for more than a second.
Nope. This is again just proving your ignorance and prejudice.
When people have their asses on fire they adapt or die. When clerks that studied for years to get a job in court and even got a degree got fired because of computers (and this was actually very quiet in my country- dozens of companies that dealt with it turned obsolete just in my city), people adapted. Fake regulations made to protect lazy people just hinder progress.
Yeah, yeah. Deal with the argument instead of trying to deflect with personal attacks. And even this attack is false. I assume that people adapt instead of protecting people thinking they would be unable to. I prefer to give them the benefit of doubt than just assume they are useless outright.
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Worst in fact. The concept of popular elitism (the idea that some people are useless and others are therefore superior) is literally one of the checkmark of "UrFascism" (the fascist ideology theorized in 14 marking points by antifascist Umberto Eco), so not only it is deeply rooted in far right and therefore elitist ideologies, but it can lead to ideologies far more dangerous.
Nop, in reality people like John call those who are denouncing acts of abuse as "lyers" and "propagandist". This is exactly what happens here.
Actually.. you might not understand it, but abusers will often justify their action like this. And won't see the abuse.
You don't understand the scenario in the first place mate :)
Here, I'm explaining with an example that an abuser will ALWAYS find a justification for their crime and that we don't have to wait for investigations to judge as citizens.
1. The charter of Hamas changed with time. Analysing the actions of the hamas with an outdated charter is fallacious at best
2. Hamas member do not necessarelly bend to the charter
3. I do not ignore the definition of terrorism, but you do ignore the fact that there are no international consensus on the notion of terrorism and this notion is absent of humanitary international rights. For a good reason, as this is a notion that can be easily used to deligitimize any action of resistance.
So we need to be precise, not only because its important, but also because it can allow us to convict the perpetuators of crimes more effectively:
The Hamas is an armed organization of resistance (mainly foundamentalist) that is anti sionist. This organisation did a war crime on october 7th killing hundreds of civilisian. The author of those crimes but be found and punish on the basis of international laws of war.
Does this means that all Hamas member are criminals ? Most probably not, simply because this organization recruits massively into the young desesperate population who are for the most part not implicated in the ideology of the group but are here because of anger and the will to oppose the oppression of the Israelian gov.
Oh I think I learned quite a bit during the 5 years when my country was under the constant and direct terrorist threat mate.
Are you taking about those who are defending Israel here ? No because Israel COULD be also called a terrorist organization by some definition of terrorism (as for example, action of violence as acts of collective punishment IS one of the definition of terrorism )
hm ?
Or are you lying again and trying to say that I defend terrorist when I explicitely explain the need to convict the perpetuators of crime wars ?
See, that's the problem. The argument cannot be reversed. Israel is not in a position of defense, its - despite what you might think - in a position of ATTACK. Israel is the OPPRESSOR:
- They are the colonizer
- They oppress the population
- They barricated Gaza
- They are stopping humanitarian help
They are the one in power and the one who use their power to create distress. Ergo : Oppressors.
So no, we can't really justify their action by saying that they act because they are a resistant group, they are not. They are the group that is the problem in the first place.
Please.. try harder...
No, its just me knowing about the subject mate. You simply can't transform a manufactory worker into a AI developper or robotic manutentionner in a single day. You need a HUGE formation for that. Formation that can be short (a few month) or very long (2 to 3 years)
Now, if you add that to the fact that you actually need to implement those formation, we are already starting to approach the decade. Now if you add that to the fact that you need to transform the entire society, you can multiply this by 10. Which create a transformation of society that can be short a little more than a decade or a bit longer 40 to 50 years.
You can't expect that people will adapt just because you told them to. Unless you are completely ignorant and you are not afraid to create complete chaos.
Glad to see, that you prefer to put "fire" on people's ass, rather that adapt slowly but surely the society to AI..
Once again, it shows why people call you a far right rights. You are the caricature of a procapitalisti liberal/liberatarian. (and of course one with conservatist and elitist vision)
Yes, OTHER people. Not the ones that were forced to be jobless.
A society without progress is a dying society. But progress without ethic or humanity is pure ignorance and chaos.
I don't need to, people don't need to know why treating people with ethic, respect and dignity is the good thing to do. Only you and Herrera seems to missunderstand this simple thing.
No, you assume that because you think you can adapt (because you have the capitals to adapts), then society will be able to adapt. Its pure desillusion and its dangerous because it enable powerfull people to think the same way.
You just said that some people are useless dude.. respect yourself.
Nop, in reality people like John call those who are denouncing acts of abuse as "lyers" and "propagandist". This is exactly what happens here.
Actually.. you might not understand it, but abusers will often justify their action like this. And won't see the abuse.
You don't understand the scenario in the first place mate :)
Here, I'm explaining with an example that an abuser will ALWAYS find a justification for their crime and that we don't have to wait for investigations to judge as citizens.
1. The charter of Hamas changed with time. Analysing the actions of the hamas with an outdated charter is fallacious at best
2. Hamas member do not necessarelly bend to the charter
3. I do not ignore the definition of terrorism, but you do ignore the fact that there are no international consensus on the notion of terrorism and this notion is absent of humanitary international rights. For a good reason, as this is a notion that can be easily used to deligitimize any action of resistance.
So we need to be precise, not only because its important, but also because it can allow us to convict the perpetuators of crimes more effectively:
The Hamas is an armed organization of resistance (mainly foundamentalist) that is anti sionist. This organisation did a war crime on october 7th killing hundreds of civilisian. The author of those crimes but be found and punish on the basis of international laws of war.
Does this means that all Hamas member are criminals ? Most probably not, simply because this organization recruits massively into the young desesperate population who are for the most part not implicated in the ideology of the group but are here because of anger and the will to oppose the oppression of the Israelian gov.
Oh I think I learned quite a bit during the 5 years when my country was under the constant and direct terrorist threat mate.
Are you taking about those who are defending Israel here ? No because Israel COULD be also called a terrorist organization by some definition of terrorism (as for example, action of violence as acts of collective punishment IS one of the definition of terrorism )
hm ?
Or are you lying again and trying to say that I defend terrorist when I explicitely explain the need to convict the perpetuators of crime wars ?
See, that's the problem. The argument cannot be reversed. Israel is not in a position of defense, its - despite what you might think - in a position of ATTACK. Israel is the OPPRESSOR:
- They are the colonizer
- They oppress the population
- They barricated Gaza
- They are stopping humanitarian help
They are the one in power and the one who use their power to create distress. Ergo : Oppressors.
So no, we can't really justify their action by saying that they act because they are a resistant group, they are not. They are the group that is the problem in the first place.
Please.. try harder...
No, its just me knowing about the subject mate. You simply can't transform a manufactory worker into a AI developper or robotic manutentionner in a single day. You need a HUGE formation for that. Formation that can be short (a few month) or very long (2 to 3 years)
Now, if you add that to the fact that you actually need to implement those formation, we are already starting to approach the decade. Now if you add that to the fact that you need to transform the entire society, you can multiply this by 10. Which create a transformation of society that can be short a little more than a decade or a bit longer 40 to 50 years.
You can't expect that people will adapt just because you told them to. Unless you are completely ignorant and you are not afraid to create complete chaos.
Glad to see, that you prefer to put "fire" on people's ass, rather that adapt slowly but surely the society to AI..
Once again, it shows why people call you a far right rights. You are the caricature of a procapitalisti liberal/liberatarian. (and of course one with conservatist and elitist vision)
Yes, OTHER people. Not the ones that were forced to be jobless.
A society without progress is a dying society. But progress without ethic or humanity is pure ignorance and chaos.
I don't need to, people don't need to know why treating people with ethic, respect and dignity is the good thing to do. Only you and Herrera seems to missunderstand this simple thing.
No, you assume that because you think you can adapt (because you have the capitals to adapts), then society will be able to adapt. Its pure desillusion and its dangerous because it enable powerfull people to think the same way.
You just said that some people are useless dude.. respect yourself.
Is thinking some people are useless enough to be labeled far right? 
The best way not to be labeled one is to blindly follow whatever you are told and don't free think at any cost.
That's why you have people go into the streets and tell liberal students quotes from right-winged people, but lie and say the leaders of the left quotes, so they praise those lines of thought.
Then they take quotes from left leaders and tell people that right-ring people said them and then they can see how racist/sexist ect that the left really is under the guise someone from the right said it.
H
So you have Israel that showed evidence of UNRWA supporting Hamas yet you are awaiting the legal investigation to believe on it. But you are taking the accusations of genocide without any proof in here...
Well since they showed me the proof and didn't seem to be wanting something from John yeah I would believe on them and help them to put him in jail.
Well since they showed me the proof and didn't seem to be wanting something from John yeah I would believe on them and help them to put him in jail.
Again, try to think before you answer. The example is directly correlated with Hamas claiming that they are right in their actions because of the crimes of Israel. The correlation is Hamas Vs Israel and not whatever stupid idea you have.
I don't care about your stupid scenario and your stupid justifications to not feel guilty about Hamas. The scenario what I was talking about was people defending Hamas while ignoring it's crimes while at the same time blaming Israel and taking everything that justifies the killing of jews as fact.
If you were stupid enough to not understand my first post- that's a YOU problem. I complained about people justifying the killing of jews because of acts commit by some people, while ignoring atrocities of Hamas and using anything to make the group as a whole free of guilt. Like you, that is perfect willing to let the blame fall in a few in the case of Hamas, but is perfect willing to blame Israel as a whole because it was just a few people and justifying the killings.
Like this. The opressor deserve to be killed.
Nope. I'm tired of trying to explain a simple concept to a person that claims to be a adult and this person acting like a retard.
Apparently not.
Agreed. So, if those people are afraid to be made obsolete, they should start to trying to improve instead of complaining until the house falls around them. Plenty of people are preparing to the new scenario, the ones that won't will suffer because they are dumb. In the end, society will adapt.
Competent people are already adapting. You look at people complaining about AI, I look at the people looking at SORA and asking about courses and how to use the technology. The first group will suffer, the second will improve and create new industries.
Attack the argument and not the person. Is not that hard. If I start with personal attacks you know that there's way more ammunition against you.
And those people had to adapt and find new jobs. Unless they are wastes of space that take gov money because of fake issues.
This is just bullshit. You'll be hard pressed to find a society that don't have any sort of ethics, even among tribes. Progress will happen either you like or not. Humans are better than you think.
Again, you are using fake accusations when not having a argument. Instead of bullshit use a proper argument.
Again, your argument is stupid. You already stated before that the AI changes will mostly affect people with higher education and not the large amount of society at large. Supposedly those people have average levels of intelligence and having a valuable degree should be able to adapt and make their degrees not worthless. The best will adapt and lead the pack. Society in the end will be fine.
Assuming that people will have to change or adapt to pay the bills is not delusion. Like, I said, smart people are already planning in how to adapt. New fields will be open and new jobs in those fields will go to competent people. The others that are unable to adapt will have to go to another field, like it happened before.
Again, you should be able to read and understand a simple concept: people will adapt or die. Those that don't are useless.
Instead of assuming that everyone will fail like you and everyone is useless, I prefer to assume that people will adapt.
For fucks sake, is not that hard to understand. Think, retard.
I don't care about your stupid scenario and your stupid justifications to not feel guilty about Hamas. The scenario what I was talking about was people defending Hamas while ignoring it's crimes while at the same time blaming Israel and taking everything that justifies the killing of jews as fact.
If you were stupid enough to not understand my first post- that's a YOU problem. I complained about people justifying the killing of jews because of acts commit by some people, while ignoring atrocities of Hamas and using anything to make the group as a whole free of guilt. Like you, that is perfect willing to let the blame fall in a few in the case of Hamas, but is perfect willing to blame Israel as a whole because it was just a few people and justifying the killings.
Like this. The opressor deserve to be killed.
Nope. I'm tired of trying to explain a simple concept to a person that claims to be a adult and this person acting like a retard.
Apparently not.
Agreed. So, if those people are afraid to be made obsolete, they should start to trying to improve instead of complaining until the house falls around them. Plenty of people are preparing to the new scenario, the ones that won't will suffer because they are dumb. In the end, society will adapt.
Competent people are already adapting. You look at people complaining about AI, I look at the people looking at SORA and asking about courses and how to use the technology. The first group will suffer, the second will improve and create new industries.
Attack the argument and not the person. Is not that hard. If I start with personal attacks you know that there's way more ammunition against you.
And those people had to adapt and find new jobs. Unless they are wastes of space that take gov money because of fake issues.
This is just bullshit. You'll be hard pressed to find a society that don't have any sort of ethics, even among tribes. Progress will happen either you like or not. Humans are better than you think.
Again, you are using fake accusations when not having a argument. Instead of bullshit use a proper argument.
Again, your argument is stupid. You already stated before that the AI changes will mostly affect people with higher education and not the large amount of society at large. Supposedly those people have average levels of intelligence and having a valuable degree should be able to adapt and make their degrees not worthless. The best will adapt and lead the pack. Society in the end will be fine.
Assuming that people will have to change or adapt to pay the bills is not delusion. Like, I said, smart people are already planning in how to adapt. New fields will be open and new jobs in those fields will go to competent people. The others that are unable to adapt will have to go to another field, like it happened before.
Again, you should be able to read and understand a simple concept: people will adapt or die. Those that don't are useless.
Instead of assuming that everyone will fail like you and everyone is useless, I prefer to assume that people will adapt.
For fucks sake, is not that hard to understand. Think, retard.
@notAfanboy come and debunk @Herrera95 's bs
Random question of the day: Can we truly trust charities created for humanitarian aid by large scale corporations and/or our governments to keep their word, and do we truly know where all of that billions in donations money gets distributed to?
When someone donates to you double or triple digits, it's most likely a gesture of friendship or goodwill.
When a conglomerate donates to you at least seven digits worth, they're pretty clear in sending you a message that you owe them a favour (or two, or forever).
[automerge]1708374502[/automerge]
Hope your auto merge works but WTF?
At 0:30 in the vid.
Even the Truckers Convoy never made it this far. They never broke into the House of Commons unlike these fellows.
When someone donates to you double or triple digits, it's most likely a gesture of friendship or goodwill.
When a conglomerate donates to you at least seven digits worth, they're pretty clear in sending you a message that you owe them a favour (or two, or forever).
[automerge]1708374502[/automerge]
Hope your auto merge works but WTF?
Even the Truckers Convoy never made it this far. They never broke into the House of Commons unlike these fellows.
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In international relations there's two points of view about this issue - actually two theories - Realists and neorealism see international relations as a zero sum game where advantages will be the primary motivator for actions of both international groups and states. Kissinger is one politician that acted in most old realistic views of how to allow the US to prosper. Liberalism and neoliberalism is more about cooperation and codependency. The European Union is a example of what the neoliberalism hope to achieve globally.
Based on the first view, we can trust those organizations to act mostly according to their tenets until it is not advantageous or until people stop looking. As soon as they can act without supervision they will abuse their power, steal the money and do what they can. This can be seen in some NGO's in Amazonian florest that basically steal and allow atrocities against the natives because they are free to do so by the actual brazilian government (in there a true genocide is happenning and the numbers of natives diminish year by year).
Based on the second view, in order to ensure those organizations to work smoothly, we need to create a environment where everyone acts in good faith, which creates a lose-lose situation if they don't follow their charters. Basically giving enough benefits to governments and those organizations so that they will be unwilling to do bullshit.
Overall, the answer for now is no- in my opinion.
Based on the first view, we can trust those organizations to act mostly according to their tenets until it is not advantageous or until people stop looking. As soon as they can act without supervision they will abuse their power, steal the money and do what they can. This can be seen in some NGO's in Amazonian florest that basically steal and allow atrocities against the natives because they are free to do so by the actual brazilian government (in there a true genocide is happenning and the numbers of natives diminish year by year).
Based on the second view, in order to ensure those organizations to work smoothly, we need to create a environment where everyone acts in good faith, which creates a lose-lose situation if they don't follow their charters. Basically giving enough benefits to governments and those organizations so that they will be unwilling to do bullshit.
Overall, the answer for now is no- in my opinion.
Still no, the example is not supposed to be a 1 for 1 comparison to the hamas israel conflict but to make you understand that because it preferable to listen to the victims rather than the oppressors in any conflict. So stop the fallacy please.
There are no such people here. You are fighting windmills.
Again, no one is doing that here and in reality very few people are doing that.
No, it just need to be accountable for what it does.
Damn... try to act less toxic, maybe you might come across more understandable.
Apparently yes since I will be directly impacted by the usage of AI, and I'm not the only one.
And this is why you will not (at least not now) understand why we call you a far right elitist. This is the kind of inhuman sentence that pro capitalist conservatist who don't know a thing about the struggles of finding a new job tends to say.
And here it is... pure dumb social darwinism... Those who can't adapt are therefore "dumb".... and you don't understand why people think you are elitist, inhuman and completely ignorant ?
No wonder...
To people yes, not the opposite.
Wrong.
Most artist are competent. In fact more than any tech AI so called "artist" and yet, they don't want to adapt (for good reasons). Meaning that you are wrong here.
Not just some people, the entire artistic industry mate.
Those people will be using and teaching about a tool build on theft...
Once we will remove their data base (that is the propriety of the owners of the datas) there will be nothing left.
If you want to use such a tool, first understand how reality work and how to make art, then create art, then train your AI on YOUR art, and then maybe you will be able to create things efficiently and ethically.
If you only take the product as it is, you will create nothing but a prompt. A prompt that anyone can copy to recreate the same exact thing.
There won't be a "second group". Trust me that artist won't let people like you steel their work and they will all unite to take those database taht AI tools are trained on, DOWN.
In that case, the point is to attack your vision of politic so its a perfectly legitimate point to make. Your vision is a libertarian one, a inhuman one and a pro capitalistic one on top of being elitist, so plainly far right. I'm just calling you out here for what you stand for.
You can try mate. I'm proud of my values. You are not.
See.. once again.. inhumanity.
Ethic in progress is bullshit ? Damn... I'm glad you are not in the gov right now. You are clearly dangerous mate.
Actually no. This is a fallacy to think that society will eventually lead toward more progress. In reality, it can retrograde.
Change is inevitable. Progress is not.
Yes, I fully know and believe that. But looking at you and how you can be inhuman, I also know that there are some iffy people out there. So we must be careful and stay ethical.
I'm just reflecting what you are telling me mate. You are saying inhuman BS therefore I call you out on this.
Actually AI will touch every strat of the society. No just people with higher education.
wow...
Pure elitist and ignorant capitalist mindset...
People like you are precisely why society is failing everyone right now.
Forcing million of people to adapt or die and think that this will create a better society IS the desillusion. What it will create is a global revolution and you will be in the front line facing those who you deemed "incapable of adptating" and "waste of space"
Have fun surviving that.
OR.... make a revolution.
Which is about to happen if there is no regulation and a profusion of AI usage in different industries.
Oh ... but I thought about it mate. That's why I say... be careful of what you say about people not adapting being "waste of space" because those people won't forget.
There are no such people here. You are fighting windmills.
Again, no one is doing that here and in reality very few people are doing that.
No, it just need to be accountable for what it does.
Damn... try to act less toxic, maybe you might come across more understandable.
Apparently yes since I will be directly impacted by the usage of AI, and I'm not the only one.
And this is why you will not (at least not now) understand why we call you a far right elitist. This is the kind of inhuman sentence that pro capitalist conservatist who don't know a thing about the struggles of finding a new job tends to say.
And here it is... pure dumb social darwinism... Those who can't adapt are therefore "dumb".... and you don't understand why people think you are elitist, inhuman and completely ignorant ?
No wonder...
To people yes, not the opposite.
Wrong.
Most artist are competent. In fact more than any tech AI so called "artist" and yet, they don't want to adapt (for good reasons). Meaning that you are wrong here.
Not just some people, the entire artistic industry mate.
Those people will be using and teaching about a tool build on theft...
Once we will remove their data base (that is the propriety of the owners of the datas) there will be nothing left.
If you want to use such a tool, first understand how reality work and how to make art, then create art, then train your AI on YOUR art, and then maybe you will be able to create things efficiently and ethically.
If you only take the product as it is, you will create nothing but a prompt. A prompt that anyone can copy to recreate the same exact thing.
There won't be a "second group". Trust me that artist won't let people like you steel their work and they will all unite to take those database taht AI tools are trained on, DOWN.
In that case, the point is to attack your vision of politic so its a perfectly legitimate point to make. Your vision is a libertarian one, a inhuman one and a pro capitalistic one on top of being elitist, so plainly far right. I'm just calling you out here for what you stand for.
You can try mate. I'm proud of my values. You are not.
See.. once again.. inhumanity.
Ethic in progress is bullshit ? Damn... I'm glad you are not in the gov right now. You are clearly dangerous mate.
Actually no. This is a fallacy to think that society will eventually lead toward more progress. In reality, it can retrograde.
Change is inevitable. Progress is not.
Yes, I fully know and believe that. But looking at you and how you can be inhuman, I also know that there are some iffy people out there. So we must be careful and stay ethical.
I'm just reflecting what you are telling me mate. You are saying inhuman BS therefore I call you out on this.
Actually AI will touch every strat of the society. No just people with higher education.
wow...
Pure elitist and ignorant capitalist mindset...
People like you are precisely why society is failing everyone right now.
Forcing million of people to adapt or die and think that this will create a better society IS the desillusion. What it will create is a global revolution and you will be in the front line facing those who you deemed "incapable of adptating" and "waste of space"
Have fun surviving that.
OR.... make a revolution.
Which is about to happen if there is no regulation and a profusion of AI usage in different industries.
Oh ... but I thought about it mate. That's why I say... be careful of what you say about people not adapting being "waste of space" because those people won't forget.