Controversial General Political Discussion
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There is no moral high ground. It's just you here using logic that suggests punching someone in high school is the same as being a mass shooter, as both inflicts harm on someone.
No different than saying if you work and get paid, you are contributing to all deaths under capitalism and is part of the problem.
No different than saying if you work and get paid, you are contributing to all deaths under capitalism and is part of the problem.
First, i never made any false equivalence. You are the one that misunderstood my statement and, ironically, is making a false equivalence. I never said your were a murderer. I said both are immoral in their own way, not that they are equal. Reading comprehension, plz. I called you out on tobacco stocks, cause i found it hypocritical of you to bash the CEO guy.
The mental gymnastics...i said they were both immoral IN THEIR OWN WAYS. I never made any false equivalences. Stop putting words on my mouth. Tobacco industry kills too. Anyone involved is profiting from blood money. Cope.and no, i'm not calling you a murder nor did i imply in past comments you were one
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yeah...tobacco stocks...
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Is it moral to sell poison to people just cause they want to have a miserable and slow end? No, it isn't. It is essentiality what drugs do: kill people slowly. People here are pretending Tobacco industry doesn't run on blood money.
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I feel for his family. For the guy, not so much.
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"Dictators,serial killers,pedos,rapists". Was the CEO a criminal or something? Am I missing something here? Immoral job? Probably, but so are Tobacco industries CEO's making profit out of ruining people's health to generate profit to SHAREHOLDERS.
The mental gymnastics...i said they were both immoral IN THEIR OWN WAYS. I never made any false equivalences. Stop putting words on my mouth. Tobacco industry kills too. Anyone involved is profiting from blood money. Cope.and no, i'm not calling you a murder nor did i imply in past comments you were one
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yeah...tobacco stocks...
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Is it moral to sell poison to people just cause they want to have a miserable and slow end? No, it isn't. It is essentiality what drugs do: kill people slowly. People here are pretending Tobacco industry doesn't run on blood money.
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I feel for his family. For the guy, not so much.
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"Dictators,serial killers,pedos,rapists". Was the CEO a criminal or something? Am I missing something here? Immoral job? Probably, but so are Tobacco industries CEO's making profit out of ruining people's health to generate profit to SHAREHOLDERS.
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You're still making no sense and not answering the question. You said my comment about the CEO is ironic because I'm invested in a tobacco stock(I have other positions mind you) and that it makes me a hypocrite. Your reason for this is that both Tobacco and health insurance industries exploit the bad health of their clients for profit.
1. Capitalism in general is exploitation for profit.
2. Paying income taxes doesn't make you complacent in government bombings nor hypothetical for calling them out
3. Working for a company doesn't make you complacent in capitalist exploitation nor make you a hypocrite for calling it out
4. Anyone with a retirement account/401k has their money put into the stock market and into every industry, which includes United Healthcare itself. That doesn't make them complacent in anything UHC does.
5. A random guy investing in a stock doesn't make them a hypocrite for calling out a CEO that actively has decision power and pull, but chooses to deny people even life saving treatment for profit.
You're making so many wild comparisons for this to work. Is every person who works now a hypocrite? This is a pretty big rabbit hole.
1. Capitalism in general is exploitation for profit.
2. Paying income taxes doesn't make you complacent in government bombings nor hypothetical for calling them out
3. Working for a company doesn't make you complacent in capitalist exploitation nor make you a hypocrite for calling it out
4. Anyone with a retirement account/401k has their money put into the stock market and into every industry, which includes United Healthcare itself. That doesn't make them complacent in anything UHC does.
5. A random guy investing in a stock doesn't make them a hypocrite for calling out a CEO that actively has decision power and pull, but chooses to deny people even life saving treatment for profit.
You're making so many wild comparisons for this to work. Is every person who works now a hypocrite? This is a pretty big rabbit hole.
1-False. Capitalism is free trade of services and goods. Marxist bullshido is perpetuating this myth. I own a small business. I'm not an exploiter.
2-True. Taxes are theft and an imposition.
3-Depends on what you do. There was this old German that got arrested in his death bed for being an accountant for nazis.
4-True. It does make them complicit if they did so voluntarily.
5-The system is fucked, bro. The guy was playing the game. So are shareholders.
I don't invest in any shady industry. The moral thing to do is to not have any part in this. Being a CEO of such industry is obviously more fucked up, but that doesn't excuse the shareholders either. Ask the old german dude. He killed no one and yet he got jailed, cause he was involved. Shareholders are involved in whatever they invest. Period. I made my statements very clear. At this point you just triggered i called you out on investing on a shady industry. In Portuguese, we have this saying: "O sujo falando do mal lavado". It means hypocrite. You entire post was an apologist post to investing in tobacco stocks(loads of mental gymnastics and bullshit). It ain't criminal, but it is immoral in my book. Same thing for the CEO situation, he was no criminal, but his job was shady. So is voluntarily investing in something as nasty as tobacco. It is shady.And before you say i'm making a false equivalency. Re-read the part where i said they are both wrong in different ways
2-True. Taxes are theft and an imposition.
3-Depends on what you do. There was this old German that got arrested in his death bed for being an accountant for nazis.
4-True. It does make them complicit if they did so voluntarily.
5-The system is fucked, bro. The guy was playing the game. So are shareholders.
I don't invest in any shady industry. The moral thing to do is to not have any part in this. Being a CEO of such industry is obviously more fucked up, but that doesn't excuse the shareholders either. Ask the old german dude. He killed no one and yet he got jailed, cause he was involved. Shareholders are involved in whatever they invest. Period. I made my statements very clear. At this point you just triggered i called you out on investing on a shady industry. In Portuguese, we have this saying: "O sujo falando do mal lavado". It means hypocrite. You entire post was an apologist post to investing in tobacco stocks(loads of mental gymnastics and bullshit). It ain't criminal, but it is immoral in my book. Same thing for the CEO situation, he was no criminal, but his job was shady. So is voluntarily investing in something as nasty as tobacco. It is shady.And before you say i'm making a false equivalency. Re-read the part where i said they are both wrong in different ways
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Yeah, Capitalism is what we all have been doing since forever. Marx was just full of shit.
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@Uncle Van Btw, indirect or direct involvement doesn't really matter. It is all blood money.
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@Uncle Van Btw, indirect or direct involvement doesn't really matter. It is all blood money.
From time to time, I wonder if you're playing a character or if you're really that much of an extremist .
The more mask off moments, the better
Now those guys walking next to him have those non-thinking cog facial expressions, don't you think?
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
The more mask off moments, the better
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
Capitalist exploitation isn't a Marxist myth....that is Red Scare propaganda....
Your point is that I'm a hypocrite for calling out the CEO for his shady business practices while I'm invested in a shady business. That completely falls apart because investing in a stock≠directly causing the deaths of many while in a position of power. You keep saying I'm trying to be an apologist somehow, when I myself said the tobacco industry lobbied for doctors and scientists to say tobacco was healthy. What I'm actually doing is trying to get you to explain how investing in a stock(which would mean those who work are hypocrites), is the same as making decisions to screw people over.
Your point is that I'm a hypocrite for calling out the CEO for his shady business practices while I'm invested in a shady business. That completely falls apart because investing in a stock≠directly causing the deaths of many while in a position of power. You keep saying I'm trying to be an apologist somehow, when I myself said the tobacco industry lobbied for doctors and scientists to say tobacco was healthy. What I'm actually doing is trying to get you to explain how investing in a stock(which would mean those who work are hypocrites), is the same as making decisions to screw people over.
From time to time, I wonder if you're playing a character or if you're really that much of an extremist .
The more mask off moments, the better
Now those guys walking next to him have those non-thinking cog facial expressions, don't you think?
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
The more mask off moments, the better
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
Bro, at this point you are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I never said they were the same. You a putting words in my mouth. I will explain this the last time, cause at this point we are just chasing our own tails. I said in past posts that big, small, direct or indirect involvement in a business that runs on people's blood is immoral.Never claimed they were the same,but i did say they were all immoral
You said the CEO was a murderer. You also said CEO's work for shareholder's profit(which is a fact, btw). What i found hypocritical of you was parading on a high horse and criticizing the guy, as if investing in Tobacco industry wasn't dealing with blood money as well(direct,indirect,small or big doesn't matter.Everyone involved with blood money is in the wrong).
Off topic: You made another false equivalence in your post. Paying taxes isn't the same as buying stock. One is voluntary, the other is not.
Capitalist exploitation is massively over rated. "Red scare". Said the american that probably never stepped on a nation that was ruined by communists.
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It's up to them to decide. I agree. But that doesn't make selling that shit moral. I'm not calling for a tobacco ban, btw. Same thing for prostitution. People should be free to screw themselves over if they are doing it voluntarily.
You said the CEO was a murderer. You also said CEO's work for shareholder's profit(which is a fact, btw). What i found hypocritical of you was parading on a high horse and criticizing the guy, as if investing in Tobacco industry wasn't dealing with blood money as well(direct,indirect,small or big doesn't matter.Everyone involved with blood money is in the wrong).
Off topic: You made another false equivalence in your post. Paying taxes isn't the same as buying stock. One is voluntary, the other is not.
Capitalist exploitation is massively over rated. "Red scare". Said the american that probably never stepped on a nation that was ruined by communists.
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It's up to them to decide. I agree. But that doesn't make selling that shit moral. I'm not calling for a tobacco ban, btw. Same thing for prostitution. People should be free to screw themselves over if they are doing it voluntarily.
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I don't know how the retirement system of the US works, if Uncle Van lives there, I mention the US because he mentioned 401k, but if you get a retirement by investing in stocks, then I think investing is not voluntary, the option is between working until you pass away, passing away from starvation once you reach retirement, or investing,
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Here, the government automatically forces business to create a retirement fund for their employees using fed gov pension fund. We don't use stocks. I mentioned that if it happens involuntarily, then there is no blame. Uncle is rubbing me the wrong with his posts. Sounds like mental gymnastics to justify easy money from tobacco stocks.
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@Uncle Van Btw, did you invest in those tobacco stocks out of your own volition or not?
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@Uncle Van Btw, did you invest in those tobacco stocks out of your own volition or not?
And once again, nothing I said was hypocritical. Investing to making a living, whether it's directly or having a 401K, isn't like being a charge of a company where you actively and deliberately deny people care and cause their deaths. There was no high horse.
I never once said nor implied that the smoking industry was moral or ethical. I myself hate the smell of smoke, and industry is on a slow decline as more smoking bans are placed. Capitalism is capitalism. I'm not making decisions to deny people seeking help.
I never once said nor implied that the smoking industry was moral or ethical. I myself hate the smell of smoke, and industry is on a slow decline as more smoking bans are placed. Capitalism is capitalism. I'm not making decisions to deny people seeking help.