Controversial General Political Discussion
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1-False. Capitalism is free trade of services and goods. Marxist bullshido is perpetuating this myth. I own a small business. I'm not an exploiter.
2-True. Taxes are theft and an imposition.
3-Depends on what you do. There was this old German that got arrested in his death bed for being an accountant for nazis.
4-True. It does make them complicit if they did so voluntarily.
5-The system is fucked, bro. The guy was playing the game. So are shareholders.
I don't invest in any shady industry. The moral thing to do is to not have any part in this. Being a CEO of such industry is obviously more fucked up, but that doesn't excuse the shareholders either. Ask the old german dude. He killed no one and yet he got jailed, cause he was involved. Shareholders are involved in whatever they invest. Period. I made my statements very clear. At this point you just triggered i called you out on investing on a shady industry. In Portuguese, we have this saying: "O sujo falando do mal lavado". It means hypocrite. You entire post was an apologist post to investing in tobacco stocks(loads of mental gymnastics and bullshit). It ain't criminal, but it is immoral in my book. Same thing for the CEO situation, he was no criminal, but his job was shady. So is voluntarily investing in something as nasty as tobacco. It is shady.And before you say i'm making a false equivalency. Re-read the part where i said they are both wrong in different ways
2-True. Taxes are theft and an imposition.
3-Depends on what you do. There was this old German that got arrested in his death bed for being an accountant for nazis.
4-True. It does make them complicit if they did so voluntarily.
5-The system is fucked, bro. The guy was playing the game. So are shareholders.
I don't invest in any shady industry. The moral thing to do is to not have any part in this. Being a CEO of such industry is obviously more fucked up, but that doesn't excuse the shareholders either. Ask the old german dude. He killed no one and yet he got jailed, cause he was involved. Shareholders are involved in whatever they invest. Period. I made my statements very clear. At this point you just triggered i called you out on investing on a shady industry. In Portuguese, we have this saying: "O sujo falando do mal lavado". It means hypocrite. You entire post was an apologist post to investing in tobacco stocks(loads of mental gymnastics and bullshit). It ain't criminal, but it is immoral in my book. Same thing for the CEO situation, he was no criminal, but his job was shady. So is voluntarily investing in something as nasty as tobacco. It is shady.And before you say i'm making a false equivalency. Re-read the part where i said they are both wrong in different ways
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Yeah, Capitalism is what we all have been doing since forever. Marx was just full of shit.
@Uncle Van Btw, indirect or direct involvement doesn't really matter. It is all blood money.
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@Uncle Van Btw, indirect or direct involvement doesn't really matter. It is all blood money.
From time to time, I wonder if you're playing a character or if you're really that much of an extremist .
The more mask off moments, the better
Now those guys walking next to him have those non-thinking cog facial expressions, don't you think?
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
The more mask off moments, the better
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
Capitalist exploitation isn't a Marxist myth....that is Red Scare propaganda....
Your point is that I'm a hypocrite for calling out the CEO for his shady business practices while I'm invested in a shady business. That completely falls apart because investing in a stock≠directly causing the deaths of many while in a position of power. You keep saying I'm trying to be an apologist somehow, when I myself said the tobacco industry lobbied for doctors and scientists to say tobacco was healthy. What I'm actually doing is trying to get you to explain how investing in a stock(which would mean those who work are hypocrites), is the same as making decisions to screw people over.
Your point is that I'm a hypocrite for calling out the CEO for his shady business practices while I'm invested in a shady business. That completely falls apart because investing in a stock≠directly causing the deaths of many while in a position of power. You keep saying I'm trying to be an apologist somehow, when I myself said the tobacco industry lobbied for doctors and scientists to say tobacco was healthy. What I'm actually doing is trying to get you to explain how investing in a stock(which would mean those who work are hypocrites), is the same as making decisions to screw people over.
From time to time, I wonder if you're playing a character or if you're really that much of an extremist .
The more mask off moments, the better
Now those guys walking next to him have those non-thinking cog facial expressions, don't you think?
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
The more mask off moments, the better
the guy who was killed was a killer, will you say the same about him, that he ??
Bro, at this point you are suffering from cognitive dissonance. I never said they were the same. You a putting words in my mouth. I will explain this the last time, cause at this point we are just chasing our own tails. I said in past posts that big, small, direct or indirect involvement in a business that runs on people's blood is immoral.Never claimed they were the same,but i did say they were all immoral
You said the CEO was a murderer. You also said CEO's work for shareholder's profit(which is a fact, btw). What i found hypocritical of you was parading on a high horse and criticizing the guy, as if investing in Tobacco industry wasn't dealing with blood money as well(direct,indirect,small or big doesn't matter.Everyone involved with blood money is in the wrong).
Off topic: You made another false equivalence in your post. Paying taxes isn't the same as buying stock. One is voluntary, the other is not.
Capitalist exploitation is massively over rated. "Red scare". Said the american that probably never stepped on a nation that was ruined by communists.
It's up to them to decide. I agree. But that doesn't make selling that shit moral. I'm not calling for a tobacco ban, btw. Same thing for prostitution. People should be free to screw themselves over if they are doing it voluntarily.
You said the CEO was a murderer. You also said CEO's work for shareholder's profit(which is a fact, btw). What i found hypocritical of you was parading on a high horse and criticizing the guy, as if investing in Tobacco industry wasn't dealing with blood money as well(direct,indirect,small or big doesn't matter.Everyone involved with blood money is in the wrong).
Off topic: You made another false equivalence in your post. Paying taxes isn't the same as buying stock. One is voluntary, the other is not.
Capitalist exploitation is massively over rated. "Red scare". Said the american that probably never stepped on a nation that was ruined by communists.
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It's up to them to decide. I agree. But that doesn't make selling that shit moral. I'm not calling for a tobacco ban, btw. Same thing for prostitution. People should be free to screw themselves over if they are doing it voluntarily.
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I don't know how the retirement system of the US works, if Uncle Van lives there, I mention the US because he mentioned 401k, but if you get a retirement by investing in stocks, then I think investing is not voluntary, the option is between working until you pass away, passing away from starvation once you reach retirement, or investing,
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Here, the government automatically forces business to create a retirement fund for their employees using fed gov pension fund. We don't use stocks. I mentioned that if it happens involuntarily, then there is no blame. Uncle is rubbing me the wrong with his posts. Sounds like mental gymnastics to justify easy money from tobacco stocks.
@Uncle Van Btw, did you invest in those tobacco stocks out of your own volition or not?
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@Uncle Van Btw, did you invest in those tobacco stocks out of your own volition or not?
And once again, nothing I said was hypocritical. Investing to making a living, whether it's directly or having a 401K, isn't like being a charge of a company where you actively and deliberately deny people care and cause their deaths. There was no high horse.
I never once said nor implied that the smoking industry was moral or ethical. I myself hate the smell of smoke, and industry is on a slow decline as more smoking bans are placed. Capitalism is capitalism. I'm not making decisions to deny people seeking help.
I never once said nor implied that the smoking industry was moral or ethical. I myself hate the smell of smoke, and industry is on a slow decline as more smoking bans are placed. Capitalism is capitalism. I'm not making decisions to deny people seeking help.
Ok? I never said anything about being equal either so don't know why you keep mentioning it. Once again, anyone who invests ≠ being a CEO of a healthcare company that denies people care. You made the comparison by saying I was a hypocrite for calling him out. Working under capitalism doesn't make you a hypocrite when you call out capitalism.
My guy Iranians consider themselves Aryans and has nothing to do with with the Nazis Aryan race.But that is irrelevant. The point is that there are more radicalized muslims than any other religion zealot and Europe has its borders wide open without doing pushbacks or quality checks.
The CEOs and the board members are what decide the direction of a company. If a company runs a " peasants" life to the ground with their sky high costs through highly expensive drugs(like insulin in US ) and the health insurance doesn't even pay half the costs through some loopholes,they deserve what they get if the end up in a ditch.
I wouldn't advocate such action,but I wouldn't feel sorry for them either. Some people can only act normally when their lives are at stake. I would say some politicians need that scare in their lifes as well to keep them in check. That's why they run amok right now,because they have the judicial deparment in their pocket and nobody touches them.
The CEOs and the board members are what decide the direction of a company. If a company runs a " peasants" life to the ground with their sky high costs through highly expensive drugs(like insulin in US ) and the health insurance doesn't even pay half the costs through some loopholes,they deserve what they get if the end up in a ditch.
I wouldn't advocate such action,but I wouldn't feel sorry for them either. Some people can only act normally when their lives are at stake. I would say some politicians need that scare in their lifes as well to keep them in check. That's why they run amok right now,because they have the judicial deparment in their pocket and nobody touches them.
I never made this false equivalence. The voices in your head did. Comparison doesn't mean false equivalency. I never claimed this were the same. I already explained that calling out people messing with blood money in one industry while you deal with blood money from some other industry is hypocritical to me.
At this point you are just twisting what i say to save face.
It's the system, bro. The laws that make this possible are the problem. It always boils down to cunt politicians in the end.
At this point you are just twisting what i say to save face.
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It's the system, bro. The laws that make this possible are the problem. It always boils down to cunt politicians in the end.
Nope. Not at all. The comparison doesn't work if you have to generalize or be overly specific. You say blood money as if its limited to certain industries, when it's all of them. Whether it's oil, gas, energy, real estate, finance, consumables, retail, tobacco or health, they all indulge in exploitation and blood money.
So anyone who invests regardless of financial status would be a hypocrite if they call out a CEO for the specific reason of being in charge of a healtcare company, but deny care to those seeking help knowing their conditions could worsen or kill them. If I was invested in Healthcare or worse, UHC itself, you'd have a point.
That is no different than saying anyone who punched someone in the face is a hypocrite for calling out a mass shooter.
So anyone who invests regardless of financial status would be a hypocrite if they call out a CEO for the specific reason of being in charge of a healtcare company, but deny care to those seeking help knowing their conditions could worsen or kill them. If I was invested in Healthcare or worse, UHC itself, you'd have a point.
That is no different than saying anyone who punched someone in the face is a hypocrite for calling out a mass shooter.