It's always funny to me to see the transition between the good and bad faith with liberals. It always has that je ne sais quoi of insults.
Even with the most cordial discussions
Hitler wasn't a nazi dictator rather his actions were I guess
Hitler WAS a genocider. That's a fact. It's a set of action situated in time and space.
Now if you tell me that Hitler has always been a genocider, I won't agree. Simple enough
Nah Logiko's logic is that if you only do it once it's fine it's just an action and it's in the past
So whatever crimes you do, i.e assault, vandalism, arson, murder, rape, stealing etc., you should never get charged if you only commit said crime once and say you're sorry after.
Funny, right ? How a simple change in the way with see an action can completely change our vision of society.
Indeed. I do not believe -
in absolute - in the fact of charging someone for a crime. In term of logic, it doesn't make sense to me on the logic side.
BUT
This is a logic that does not have its place in the current world.
When I'm talking about logic here about the placement of action in time and space and the importance of not essentializing them to the entire existence of a person... I'm
TAKING A SHORTCUT.
A shortcut that leads directly to an utopia. As only in an utopia will we be able to have this kind of discussion about logic.
In the current world, we can't. Simply because we must essentialize some stuff like "rapist" or "genocider" to point out problems, behaviors and domination systems. We must not go too far ahead, hence why I'm saying that I'm 300 year too early to have this debate. It's not a debate that I can have safely in this society, especially not in a place with so many oppressive behavior and mindset.
No.. INSTEAD we have to look at the other political side of the coin :
Abolitionnism
Prison, are by essence, institution of systemic oppression. Now, this is a little bit advanced for this thread (
meaning by that that I risk to see a lot of outrage here and I don't really want to deal with that) but basically, abolitionnist (
because I'm also an abolitionnist) believe that prison do not help in any thing, and are actually the tool of the system to subjegate and exploit marginalized populations.
We know that most big criminal (
murderer, rapist, active pedophiles, war criminal etc.) are not convicted, they are free most of the time and we also know that prison are overcrowed with crimes of lower standards. Crimes that are usually perpetuated by the material condition of existence of people (
the black community in the US, for ex, is highly discriminated that way). Prison serves basically as a justice of class against the poor.
We believe in
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE in the
materialistic sense of the world. This is
NOT rehabilitative justic and this is
NOT centered around the rehabilitation of the person who commit the action, but the
VICTIM who is subjected to the action.
Also we are not talking about the restorative justice that we know today. What we mean is a type of justice that
really take the victims into consideration and the importance of allowing them to
HEAL (
and not necessarily have justice like so many here want) NOT the perpetuator.
It can only be done
by stricking down all type of domination system as there will be no healing for the victims as long as men will be able to avoid the consequences of their actions or when rich people will be able to keep avoiding sentences. As long as there will be the possibility for people to access situation of power, some will abuse them.
Just cause an rapist has moments where he shows semblance of moral good doesn't make him less of a scumbag if he persists in what makes him a scumbag.
Indeed. That's why I'm pointing out the notion of action in the
dimension of time.
As long as the action is repeated in time, the label is perfectly normal. And even necessary.
For example, Netanyahou is STILL a genocider under that logic, and will only stop being one once he has no material way to continue. (
although in our time, we will still call him a genocider long after the fact, and it's normal and even necessary as I explained in the previous reply just above this one)
