Controversial General Political Discussion

[RyoQ]

Materialist leftists.


I believe you do not understand what "whiteness" means. It's not what you think trust me and it's a bit complex to explain only in three lines.


Very simply: Whiteness is a social dominant position theorized around 1935. A tool of power & domination. Invisible politically but present in the institutions. It's a form of psychological salary, giving a dominant social status to even the poorest white working class workers over racialized ones, with implicit social and space access and pushing them to identify to elites instead of "racialized" workers.

"Whiteness was invented in the 30s"

No the term "white" in the way we use it today did not start in the 1930s.

It's usage comes long before the 1930s and largely rose out of American 17th century colonial statues, and throughout the 18th century American state/federal law outlining things like who could vote, become a citizen, who can marry who, etc.

Pennsylvania (1725–26) — provincial “Negro law” repeatedly contrasts with “white person/white woman/white man”:

“no minister… shall… join in marriage any negro with any white person… if any white man or woman shall cohabit… with any negro…” (and other sections)​

 

[Roo]

Big yikes…even if he’s getting out in front of it, that’s clearly Nazi iconography, not really any mistaking it for something more benign. I’m sure the righties will look the other way like they usually do when it comes to overt bigotry in politics instead of some performative pearl-clutching about respectability or whatever they say to justify why something is only morally wrong when liberals do it

this comes up right as their nazi chats leak

like i dont blame people for thinking shits a script

 

[Uncle Van]

"Democrats have shutdown the government" - official White House gov site

The propaganda needs to be studied

 

[Logiko]

Big yikes…even if he’s getting out in front of it, that’s clearly Nazi iconography, not really any mistaking it for something more benign. I’m sure the righties will look the other way like they usually do when it comes to overt bigotry in politics instead of some performative pearl-clutching about respectability or whatever they say to justify why something is only morally wrong when liberals do it

Yeah, it's hard to believe that he didn't check. But looking at the way he is coming about it with transparency, I'm willing to give the guy a naivity pass, even if he is still an army boy which doesn't ring a lot of respect for me anyway.

"Whiteness was invented in the 30s"

No the term "white" in the way we use it today did not start in the 1930s.

It's usage comes long before the 1930s and largely rose out of American 17th century colonial statues, and throughout the 18th century American state/federal law outlining things like who could vote, become a citizen, who can marry who, etc.

Pennsylvania (1725–26) — provincial “Negro law” repeatedly contrasts with “white person/white woman/white man”:


“no minister… shall… join in marriage any negro with any white person… if any white man or woman shall cohabit… with any negro…” (and other sections)

Mate. If you could just read with interest two seconds, you would have understood that I'm not talking about "white" or "white people", but "whiteness". Whiteness is a sociological concept. I'm talking about a social status that you probably never heard about until now. Reread what I just explained please.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I'll let you analyze his posts. Is he with :
-Les z'hommes de Zemmour
-Les Écolos (green party) ???
-Nicolas Sarkozy is innocent

Zemmour? Knafo's pet.
Les ecolos bobos? No thanks.
Sarkozy? Guilty, and he didn't even get caught for all he did. He should spend the rest of his life in prison.

 

[RyoQ]

Mate. If you could just read with interest two seconds, you would have understood that I'm not talking about "white" or "white people", but "whiteness". Whiteness is a sociological concept. I'm talking about a social status that you probably never heard about until now. Reread what I just explained please.

That is bullshit, your definition of "white people" is just privelaged people or something. Lol

 

[Logiko]

Zemmour? Knafo's pet.
Les ecolos bobos? No thanks.
Sarkozy? Guilty, and he didn't even get caught for all he did. He should spend the rest of his life in prison.

PCF then? FI ? Perhaps something more radical, NPA?

That is bullshit, your definition of "white people" is just privelaged people or something. Lol

White people are priviledged by default in an occidental world. But don't worry, I'm not expecting you to be cool with a concept you just discovered. With your values, it would be a shining miracle. No... you need much more context and politicization before taking this concept seriousely. Just keep this in mind: Whiteness is not "white people" or "white" and it's a social status of domination. That's all.

 

[RyoQ]

PCF then? FI ? Perhaps something more radical, NPA?


White people are priviledged by default in an occidental world. But don't worry, I'm not expecting you to be cool with a concept you just discovered. With your values, it would be a shining miracle. No... you need much more context and politicization before taking this concept seriousely. Just keep this in mind: Whiteness is not "white people" or "white" and it's a social status of domination. That's all.

What the fuck do you mean "white people" I thought race wasn't real, so there are no white people

 

[Logiko]

What the fuck do you mean "white people" I thought race wasn't real, so there are no white people

Being "white", as explained, is a social status given by whiteness. So when I'm talking about white people, I'm talking about people who are benefiting from that "invisible salary" that is the social dominating status of whiteness which pushes the white working class to identify to the white elits in opposition to racialized people overall. This is why people in the working class in the US are voting for Trump. >>>

Whiteness. (blanchité en Francais). (created by Judith Ezekiel in 2002, edit : and theorized around 1935)

Whiteness is an invisible norm. It's a position of domination is the racial order. It's the idea that even the poor white working class will have a superior non monayable salary : A superior social status, more space access etc. than racialized people.

This psychological salary pushes white people to identify to white elits instead of black (and other racialized workers). Whiteness therefore acts as a tool to maintain économical and racial order.

Whiteness is not about appearance or biological traits, it's a social construct and a position of domination created by imperialism, colonization and slavery. Whiteness is at the center of white supremacy. It's a political and social status that can evolve. For ex: in the XIX's century. Irish who came to the united states were racialized and discriminated despite having a white skin. They were considered inferior.

Whiteness allows us, white people to be able to ignore colors and the violence against racialized people while dominating them at the same time. It's the entire idea behind universalism and colorblindness.

---

And this is why this social norm is important here.

The social order in our current society is pushing the idea that whiteness is a desirable social order because it will allow people to access dignity and recognition. In his work Frantz Fanon (a philosopher and psychiatrist) explained that in colonial context, the oppressed will seek the benediction and acceptation of the oppressor even to the point of fighting for them because of the potential social retribution of whiteness. It's exactly what happens in the United State with these communities. Whiteness is a promisse of a better social status, more priviledges.

But contrary to their internalized beliefs, this whiteness will still works against them. Simply because they are still part of racialized groups.

This is why you can see black people advocating for Trump for a long time and suddenly shift back when it's too late.

 

[RyoQ]

Being "white", as explained, is a social status given by whiteness. So when I'm talking about white people, I'm talking about people who are benefiting from that "invisible salary" that is the social dominating status of whiteness which pushes the white working class to identify to the white elits in opposition to racialized people overall. This is why people in the working class in the US are voting for Trump. >>>

Studying sociology has ruined this man

 

[Zenos7]

Listen, either you trust me or you go read a bunch of sociology and history on your own. One or the other. If you can't take simple sociological data, I can't help you. Racism is a system of domination. First, learn what the term "system of domination" means, then come back to me, but if you are not willing to have a genuine good faith conversation, don't bother.

Me not playing along with you redefining basic terms left and right is not me arguing in bad faith my guy.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

PCF then? FI ? Perhaps something more radical, NPA?

I do not affiliate myself with any party because I don't think very highly of politicians.
And even in their lies, they're not saying anything very appealing to me.

 

[RyoQ]

Me not playing along with you redefining basic terms left and right is not me arguing in bad faith my guy.

That guy lives in his own world. Studying sociology can really turn one insane

 

[Logiko]

Studying sociology has ruined this man

You should try

Me not playing along with you redefining basic terms left and right is not me arguing in bad faith my guy.

I do not affiliate myself with any party because I don't think very highly of politicians.

Me too, but there is are circles of influences. And political movements outside of party.

That guy lives in his own world. Studying sociology can really turn one insane

It's up to you. Do you wanna keep living in a confused world or do you wanna understand precisely how the social world work?

 

[Zenos7]

Just say you hate white people

 

[Logiko]

It will be quite a moment to watch your radicalization. You are a US citizen? German perhaps? Should arrive soon 1, perhaps 2 years?. Well, either that, or you will completely side with the reactionaries that you are already flirting with. It depends on how your material conditions will be affected, I guess. Don't worry, I won't judge you. After all, I did the journey myself.

 

[Zenos7]

Who is "we"? Everyone considers whiteness a racial people, don't just assume everyone lives in the same schizophrenic delusion as you do


Tell me, what defines this "social status" and why all who seem to fall under the white "race", also happen to fall under this...um..."social status"

This doesnt even work in the slightest, especially when considering europeans distinguish between themselves despite all being "white".

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Why have I never seen this before

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Why have I never seen this before

Asking the children to leave after he explained what fisting was lol

 

[Juanpiz]

The pro-Sarkozy tears are so good that it makes me lose my sleep !

French internet is full of videos of obnoxious protestors yelling their hate for the law



@Juanpiz Are you unironically one of them btw ?

Neither Sarkozy Supporter nor French but heard about it