Controversial General Political Discussion
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If capitalists control the state, can you tell me why me fighting to get them out of power and stripping them of their ability to exploit people - by forbidding them from owning the means of production - would actually benefit them?
I need you to explain this to me, please.
I need you to explain this to me, please.
No, they are asking you to do that with everyone else. The big guys run the government , the media, and they have intellectuals in their pockets too. Communism is just propaganda to allow for even wilder hypercapitalism. Why did a bunch of Russian billionaires pop up after the Soviet Union fell? Simply because the Russian Communist Party and the Russian Mafia were and are basically the same entity. And they all love money and entrepreneurship.
The same thing would happen if the West suddenly went communistic. You would have a facade of communism on the surface, but in reality, the State would be run by a bunch of hypercapitalist oligarchs in the background. Concentration of power in the hands of the State does not eliminate the elites; it merely creates new ones. Marx's vision is impossible.
Basically, Cuba, North Korea, and China still run like this. A facade of equalitarism run by a class of very wealthy and powerful oligarchs. Concentration of power in the hands of a few will never create an equal society. Communism basically requires a dictator to subvert power from the status quo.
The same thing would happen if the West suddenly went communistic. You would have a facade of communism on the surface, but in reality, the State would be run by a bunch of hypercapitalist oligarchs in the background. Concentration of power in the hands of the State does not eliminate the elites; it merely creates new ones. Marx's vision is impossible.
Basically, Cuba, North Korea, and China still run like this. A facade of equalitarism run by a class of very wealthy and powerful oligarchs. Concentration of power in the hands of a few will never create an equal society. Communism basically requires a dictator to subvert power from the status quo.
I want to follow you but "how" ?
Because the USSR collapsed and large chunks of the economy were privatized ? Wdym??
So you are saying that the west that is currently all about privatization would.... Become even more privatized under communism through nationalization?
So we would get nationalization or privatization? I don't understaaaaaand
Do you rather mean "concentration of power in the hands of the state does not elimitate the potential for a power to become authoritarian?"
Because the point of communist is to get rid of elites... so I don't get your point..(i'm playing dumb on purpose btw if you didn't notice)
Marx vision was incomplete.
Tell me, do you think cuban capitalists and North Korean capitalist(??) are the reasons why Cuba and north korea have no electricity and are being starved right now?
Well on this we do agree, that's why I'm not a marxist leninist but a liberatarian communist. For the moment at least.
Because the USSR collapsed and large chunks of the economy were privatized ? Wdym??
So you are saying that the west that is currently all about privatization would.... Become even more privatized under communism through nationalization?
So we would get nationalization or privatization? I don't understaaaaaand
Do you rather mean "concentration of power in the hands of the state does not elimitate the potential for a power to become authoritarian?"
Because the point of communist is to get rid of elites... so I don't get your point..(i'm playing dumb on purpose btw if you didn't notice)
Marx vision was incomplete.
Tell me, do you think cuban capitalists and North Korean capitalist(??) are the reasons why Cuba and north korea have no electricity and are being starved right now?
Well on this we do agree, that's why I'm not a marxist leninist but a liberatarian communist. For the moment at least.
I want to follow you but "how" ?
Because the USSR collapsed and large chunks of the economy were privatized ? Wdym??
So you are saying that the west that is currently all about privatization would.... Become even more privatized under communism through nationalization?
So we would get nationalization or privatization? I don't understaaaaaand
Do you rather mean "concentration of power in the hands of the state does not elimitate the potential for a power to become authoritarian?"
Because the point of communist is to get rid of elites... so I don't get your point..(i'm playing dumb on purpose btw if you didn't notice)
Marx vision was incomplete.
Tell me, do you think cuban capitalists and North Korean capitalist(??) are the reasons why Cuba and north korea have no electricity and are being starved right now?
Well on this we do agree, that's why I'm not a marxist leninist but a liberatarian communist. For the moment at least.
Because the USSR collapsed and large chunks of the economy were privatized ? Wdym??
So you are saying that the west that is currently all about privatization would.... Become even more privatized under communism through nationalization?
So we would get nationalization or privatization? I don't understaaaaaand
Do you rather mean "concentration of power in the hands of the state does not elimitate the potential for a power to become authoritarian?"
Because the point of communist is to get rid of elites... so I don't get your point..(i'm playing dumb on purpose btw if you didn't notice)
Marx vision was incomplete.
Tell me, do you think cuban capitalists and North Korean capitalist(??) are the reasons why Cuba and north korea have no electricity and are being starved right now?
Well on this we do agree, that's why I'm not a marxist leninist but a liberatarian communist. For the moment at least.
2-Not more privatized, but if every company being state-owned would just create one huge monopoly. The greatest preachers of Communism in the West are billionaires. That Klawus Swab guy had a Lenin statuette in his office.
3- The point of Communism is indeed that, on the surface, because it never achieved that and it is kind of impossible to do so. As Bakunin said, if you overthrow the elites, you become the new elite.
4-Marx's vision was/is a scam.
5-Cuba and North Korea are miserable because their current economic system prevents any wealth from being generated. Embargo is a bullshit excuse to save face for their stupid dictatorship. China told Cuba to be more capitalistic years ago.
You do understand that the corruption within the USSR is not something that we negate, right?
You are literally implying "communism fell because capitalism was not fully eradicated"
Which is true, the USSR could have never get rid of capitalism to begin with, they were not intersectionnal and real materialists. It would have never worked like that anyway.
I feel like you are not seeing your contradictions here so I will try to destruct this step by step.
> First, what do you think happens to the wealth of billionnaires when we strip them from that wealth and redistribute it ?
> Second, do you understand the reason why monopolies under capitalism are bad ?
> Did you know that billionnaire uses leftist imagery to stay under the radars of the population ?
> Is Elon musk asking for Communism ?
Yes, but collectivisation is not impossible. In fact, we can see this type of system in many of our lifes aspect (wikipedia for ex).
So people are not exploited by the bourgeoisie ?
If you strangle me, do you think someone would be wrong to tell you that you are preventing me from breezing?
BEcause that's exactly what you are saying right now. The blocus and sanctions are literally preventing ressources and energy to flow.
You are literally implying "communism fell because capitalism was not fully eradicated"
Which is true, the USSR could have never get rid of capitalism to begin with, they were not intersectionnal and real materialists. It would have never worked like that anyway.
I feel like you are not seeing your contradictions here so I will try to destruct this step by step.
> First, what do you think happens to the wealth of billionnaires when we strip them from that wealth and redistribute it ?
> Second, do you understand the reason why monopolies under capitalism are bad ?
> Did you know that billionnaire uses leftist imagery to stay under the radars of the population ?
> Is Elon musk asking for Communism ?
Yes, but collectivisation is not impossible. In fact, we can see this type of system in many of our lifes aspect (wikipedia for ex).
So people are not exploited by the bourgeoisie ?
If you strangle me, do you think someone would be wrong to tell you that you are preventing me from breezing?
BEcause that's exactly what you are saying right now. The blocus and sanctions are literally preventing ressources and energy to flow.
There has never been a communist nation as communism is about achieving a society that is moneyless, stateless, and classless.
For the most part, you cant achieve the ideal communist nation without decades of gradual reform with no setbacks, or speed up the process by starting a dictatorship/revolution to cause extreme instability, praying that things stabilize in the favor of the communist(it did not).
People keep getting confused with the many different ideologies and methods used to achieve a communist society, authoritarianism being one of them. Hell, state capitalism was a compromise that communist used in the hopes of achieving their goal.
For the most part, you cant achieve the ideal communist nation without decades of gradual reform with no setbacks, or speed up the process by starting a dictatorship/revolution to cause extreme instability, praying that things stabilize in the favor of the communist(it did not).
People keep getting confused with the many different ideologies and methods used to achieve a communist society, authoritarianism being one of them. Hell, state capitalism was a compromise that communist used in the hopes of achieving their goal.
