1. Based on non-subjective history, this is what we know about Quran's history:
-> Muhammad's "revelation" from God, was said to be written throughout his life by his followers and the Prophet himself, so it's not written by Muhammad fully even if we go by the Islamic traditional history on this. (This again is the actual problem I pointed out, that religions like Judaism/Buddhism/Christianity all face. Sikhism bypasses it since their founders wrote the scripture themselves. Hinduism's bypasses this with Vedas are a collection of various people compiled together by 1 person (though more than likely multiple people) and not some divine revelation to 1 individual)
-> According to Islamic scholars the Quran was completely compiled between 644-656 AD, which is still a whole decade or two after Muhammad.
-> The oldest partial - manuscript of Quran "could" be traced back to around 645 AD.
So, you did not address my issue. What you simply told me the Islamic narrative regarding how the Quran came to be, which I'm already aware of. The fact that it was not fully or even at all written by Muhammad does not change. The fact that the actual Quran (the first whole scripture) was made after Muhammad's death is still an issue.
2. Which again is an issue my friend, if a religion isn't even decisive on what is 100% truth, and what isn't, it's not exactly a good outlook. What hadith is accepted and what isn't, is also an issue in itself as many debates happen between islamic scholars regarding whether to accept them or not. And this only happens when the foundations of that religion are shaky or if the religion overtime was messed up. Considering Islam was over the course of history basically dominated by political influence, it being changed and influenced by political figures is not out of the option. As it happened with Christianity as well.
3. Same thing as 2nd.
4. What I am on about is this:
-> Vedas & purranas made many predictions, scientifically & socially. You're more than welcomed to search it up
-> According to Buddhism texts, Buddha himself made several predictions.
-> According to Sikhism, "100 stories" involves predictions of events to happen
-> According to Chrisitianity, bible makes a lot of predictions
-> According to Judaism, Torah makes a lot of predictions
Literally every single major religion out there claims that their founders/scriptures made predictions which are coming true today. So while you have posted the predictions, you have not posted anything unique to Islam. You've just established the "fortune-teller" part of the Islamic-faith that exists in all of the world's major established religions.
5. I did not attempt anything, I simply pointed out from an objective point of view, scriptures not directly written by the prophet/founder of the religion, have less credibility than those that have been, as far as being connected to what their prophet said or could've said. That both christianity & islam seem to have this similarity, where the followers of the prophets are the ones who come up with the scripture, rather than prophet himself. The hadiths were mentioned, because they according to you are a part of Islam. In order to negate the fact that hadiths sometimes contradict the parts of Quran, you said Quran > Hadiths.. if that is the case, why bother following them? Ah but to that you said because Muslims should follow the life of the Prophet, but his is the best.
Following the life that Muhammad lived.. I really don't see any Muslim doing this. You're on an anime forum, where you spend time discussing over a fictional character (s) and often times even provoke people, explain to me how or why Muhammad would do this or even condone this?? I'm pretty sure One Piece (particularly the anime version) would be considered Haram. (This is not taking any shots at you, but simply giving a direct example to support the point I'm making).
What you established is what I pointed out earlier in the previous thread, people follow their religions selectively, parts that appease to them, but not wholely. They then try to get away with not following their religions fully by saying things such as, "I try my best to follow the way so and so did.", "Times are different now..", "We also have to adapt to modern ways of living so somethings we cannot do".
-> Muhammad's "revelation" from God, was said to be written throughout his life by his followers and the Prophet himself, so it's not written by Muhammad fully even if we go by the Islamic traditional history on this. (This again is the actual problem I pointed out, that religions like Judaism/Buddhism/Christianity all face. Sikhism bypasses it since their founders wrote the scripture themselves. Hinduism's bypasses this with Vedas are a collection of various people compiled together by 1 person (though more than likely multiple people) and not some divine revelation to 1 individual)
-> According to Islamic scholars the Quran was completely compiled between 644-656 AD, which is still a whole decade or two after Muhammad.
-> The oldest partial - manuscript of Quran "could" be traced back to around 645 AD.
So, you did not address my issue. What you simply told me the Islamic narrative regarding how the Quran came to be, which I'm already aware of. The fact that it was not fully or even at all written by Muhammad does not change. The fact that the actual Quran (the first whole scripture) was made after Muhammad's death is still an issue.
2. Which again is an issue my friend, if a religion isn't even decisive on what is 100% truth, and what isn't, it's not exactly a good outlook. What hadith is accepted and what isn't, is also an issue in itself as many debates happen between islamic scholars regarding whether to accept them or not. And this only happens when the foundations of that religion are shaky or if the religion overtime was messed up. Considering Islam was over the course of history basically dominated by political influence, it being changed and influenced by political figures is not out of the option. As it happened with Christianity as well.
3. Same thing as 2nd.
4. What I am on about is this:
-> Vedas & purranas made many predictions, scientifically & socially. You're more than welcomed to search it up
-> According to Buddhism texts, Buddha himself made several predictions.
-> According to Sikhism, "100 stories" involves predictions of events to happen
-> According to Chrisitianity, bible makes a lot of predictions
-> According to Judaism, Torah makes a lot of predictions
Literally every single major religion out there claims that their founders/scriptures made predictions which are coming true today. So while you have posted the predictions, you have not posted anything unique to Islam. You've just established the "fortune-teller" part of the Islamic-faith that exists in all of the world's major established religions.
5. I did not attempt anything, I simply pointed out from an objective point of view, scriptures not directly written by the prophet/founder of the religion, have less credibility than those that have been, as far as being connected to what their prophet said or could've said. That both christianity & islam seem to have this similarity, where the followers of the prophets are the ones who come up with the scripture, rather than prophet himself. The hadiths were mentioned, because they according to you are a part of Islam. In order to negate the fact that hadiths sometimes contradict the parts of Quran, you said Quran > Hadiths.. if that is the case, why bother following them? Ah but to that you said because Muslims should follow the life of the Prophet, but his is the best.
Following the life that Muhammad lived.. I really don't see any Muslim doing this. You're on an anime forum, where you spend time discussing over a fictional character (s) and often times even provoke people, explain to me how or why Muhammad would do this or even condone this?? I'm pretty sure One Piece (particularly the anime version) would be considered Haram. (This is not taking any shots at you, but simply giving a direct example to support the point I'm making).
What you established is what I pointed out earlier in the previous thread, people follow their religions selectively, parts that appease to them, but not wholely. They then try to get away with not following their religions fully by saying things such as, "I try my best to follow the way so and so did.", "Times are different now..", "We also have to adapt to modern ways of living so somethings we cannot do".
my whole area is mostly Orthodox
