Controversial General Religion Thread

[Luffy bin Dragon]

1. Based on non-subjective history, this is what we know about Quran's history:

-> Muhammad's "revelation" from God, was said to be written throughout his life by his followers and the Prophet himself, so it's not written by Muhammad fully even if we go by the Islamic traditional history on this. (This again is the actual problem I pointed out, that religions like Judaism/Buddhism/Christianity all face. Sikhism bypasses it since their founders wrote the scripture themselves. Hinduism's bypasses this with Vedas are a collection of various people compiled together by 1 person (though more than likely multiple people) and not some divine revelation to 1 individual)

-> According to Islamic scholars the Quran was completely compiled between 644-656 AD, which is still a whole decade or two after Muhammad.

-> The oldest partial - manuscript of Quran "could" be traced back to around 645 AD.

So, you did not address my issue. What you simply told me the Islamic narrative regarding how the Quran came to be, which I'm already aware of. The fact that it was not fully or even at all written by Muhammad does not change. The fact that the actual Quran (the first whole scripture) was made after Muhammad's death is still an issue.



2. Which again is an issue my friend, if a religion isn't even decisive on what is 100% truth, and what isn't, it's not exactly a good outlook. What hadith is accepted and what isn't, is also an issue in itself as many debates happen between islamic scholars regarding whether to accept them or not. And this only happens when the foundations of that religion are shaky or if the religion overtime was messed up. Considering Islam was over the course of history basically dominated by political influence, it being changed and influenced by political figures is not out of the option. As it happened with Christianity as well.

3. Same thing as 2nd.


4. What I am on about is this:

-> Vedas & purranas made many predictions, scientifically & socially. You're more than welcomed to search it up
-> According to Buddhism texts, Buddha himself made several predictions.
-> According to Sikhism, "100 stories" involves predictions of events to happen
-> According to Chrisitianity, bible makes a lot of predictions
-> According to Judaism, Torah makes a lot of predictions

Literally every single major religion out there claims that their founders/scriptures made predictions which are coming true today. So while you have posted the predictions, you have not posted anything unique to Islam. You've just established the "fortune-teller" part of the Islamic-faith that exists in all of the world's major established religions.

5. I did not attempt anything, I simply pointed out from an objective point of view, scriptures not directly written by the prophet/founder of the religion, have less credibility than those that have been, as far as being connected to what their prophet said or could've said. That both christianity & islam seem to have this similarity, where the followers of the prophets are the ones who come up with the scripture, rather than prophet himself. The hadiths were mentioned, because they according to you are a part of Islam. In order to negate the fact that hadiths sometimes contradict the parts of Quran, you said Quran > Hadiths.. if that is the case, why bother following them? Ah but to that you said because Muslims should follow the life of the Prophet, but his is the best.

Following the life that Muhammad lived.. I really don't see any Muslim doing this. You're on an anime forum, where you spend time discussing over a fictional character (s) and often times even provoke people, explain to me how or why Muhammad would do this or even condone this?? I'm pretty sure One Piece (particularly the anime version) would be considered Haram. (This is not taking any shots at you, but simply giving a direct example to support the point I'm making).


What you established is what I pointed out earlier in the previous thread, people follow their religions selectively, parts that appease to them, but not wholely. They then try to get away with not following their religions fully by saying things such as, "I try my best to follow the way so and so did.", "Times are different now..", "We also have to adapt to modern ways of living so somethings we cannot do".

Well actually the oldest manuscript is said to be from 645
Heres’s the quote
“Radiocarbon analysis has dated the parchment on which the text is written to the period between AD 568 and 645 with 95.4% accuracy”
This means that at the latest it’s from 645. Also according to Islamic accounts the first collection of the Quran was 1 year after the Prophet‘s(PBUH) Death. You also fail to take into account of the thousand of Memorizers who were still alive in the reign of Uthman and Abu Bakr (May Allah be Pleased with them both)

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

To Christians. Since i'm baptized orthodox christian went atheist, i wanna ask a few questions. No offense, i'm just curious.

1) Who created God?
2) Why did God create humans, angels, demons and etc? Like, what for? Just to be or what?
3) How didn't an omniscient creature predict Lucifer's fall, Adam and Eve's original sin and prevented that?
4) Does Bible say something about aliens?
5) Why was God waiting for so long to give the Old Testament to humanity, why not give it before all those Pagan Gods were created?
6) Why is God so cruel to non-believers? Like, even if you exist, why must we believe some old books?
7) What did infants do to you so they are sinful right after birth?
8) Sending humans, no matter how bad, to eternal torture is too much, no?
9) Why Lucifer cooperates with God? Doesn't he hate him?
[automerge]1604783222[/automerge]
This is the God i actually would believe in

This is based on my current knowledge so I could be still wrong in some questions but I will try my best to answer.

1. Everything has a creator. So God was always existed. God wasn't created by anybody.
2. God create humans, angels, demons, etc so he would have friends. God also feel lonely ya know.
3. Because he doesn't want others to misunderstood on what he's doing.
4. I don't think so.
5. Because there is only one god LOL.
6. Not really. You don't have to fully believe in the Bible. That's your own decision.
7. Because humans have sins. Adam and Eve committed the original sin and it's passes on through generation and generation. And that's where Jesus coming in.
8. Well yes. But it was the humans' decision.
9. Because it wouldn't be fair for Lucifer so he make a deal with Jesus. If humans falls into temptation then Lucifer wins, if humans obey Jesus then Jesus wins. It's a game of time.

I hope I answered your questions throughly ^^

 

[Yoshioka Seijuro]

Agnostic. ;;

 

[knuckleheadninja]

Why not ? As long we stay respectful...trolls can be thread banned.

Like people can make their own threads for their own beliefs that people share. As long as they dont involve someone who isnt in the belief its good enough no ?

I got no problem with it but If few people want to discuss their religious perspective or thoughts then shouldn't they be doing it on a private chat group.
Current affair or general threads are fine on an anime forum but isn't a religious thread way too diverging for an anime forum.

 

[Chrono]

I got no problem with it but If few people want to discuss their religious perspective or thoughts then shouldn't they be doing it on a private chat group.
Current affair or general threads are fine on an anime forum but isn't a religious thread way too diverging for an anime forum.

Yeah its diverging....but theirs literally nothing else to discuss in OP anymore. Most threads are just repeats and pointless PL discussions. Having a faith thread as breather between chapters is nice in my opinion.

Theres are threads for people with different languages and threads on politics. Weve already diverged from the whole " Only an Anime Forum".

However as the current days have shown...debating when it comes to religion can be toxic. I agree that if a person didnt practice the religion and had no interest in it...then theyre better off not interacting with the thread or leaving it to the pms.

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

I believe Fyodor Dostoevsky put it best
''Assume that there's no God or immortality of the soul. Now tell me, why should I live righteously and do good deeds if I'm to die entirely on earth?.. why shouldn't I cut another man throat, rob and steal..''

 

[Natalija]

Then you have the Orthodox, which were puppets of the Eastern Roman Empire and really faded into obscurity.

my whole area is mostly Orthodox

 

[Zara]

Well we're the one's who'er right. Then you have the Orthodox, which were puppets of the Eastern Roman Empire and really faded into obscurity. And then the Protestants, who all were born from the reformation movement from Martin Luther back in the 1600s. Germany worked to destroy European stability by allowing Northern Europe to break off into many different sects, some crazy and others obscure like the precursors to today's Amish in the Netherlands.

Orthodox hasn’t faded into obscurity. It’s the dominant religion in the Balkans and eastern Europe.

And I don’t think it’s fair to put the blame on Germans for all the different sects. The Catholic church at the time was very corrupt and taking advantage of the poor and Luther decided to stand up to them. Then the 30 Years War and the Roman Catholic Church trying to force everyone to be Catholic or die didn’t help as well. It was the Catholics who started this war that led to 4.5 - 8 million people dying, all because they had a different religious opinion.

To be clear, I am NOT saying your religious beliefs are corrupt or wrong. I am merely saying that at that specific moment in history, the people in charge were abusing their powers and the powerless decided to stand up for their basic human rights.

 

[One of Two]

I believe Fyodor Dostoevsky put it best
''Assume that there's no God or immortality of the soul. Now tell me, why should I live righteously and do good deeds if I'm to die entirely on earth?.. why shouldn't I cut another man throat, rob and steal..''

Why? Because if you go around murdering and stealing, you are way more likely to get killed or at the very least go to prison. Dying or spending your life in prison just doesn't seem optimal if you don't believe in an afterlife.
For me, my morality is based on two separate factors, one is my empathy & feelings, the other is logical thinking & accounting for consequences.

 

[kentasaiba]

I am a member of the church of Ulti.

 

[Bob74h]

Morality without God is subjective and and inherently flawed

morality itself has always been subjective


And even with religion

as some stories may say killings is good or not
only if their homosexual in some cases yknow like in the bible

 

[BleakAsh]

what was i ignorant about?





no hypothesis needed
there's dna proof

and again a hypothesis from people value objectivity would be alot more credible then a faith based claim like the one your using




Bible said
god made human in his image


So pretty sure, it's very related to human nature
How can you have the form of god if you are not alike him




so what?
Yahweh is jesus's father and mary is the mother
so clearly there had to be some humping there

and yahweh can die
it's why lucifer can be a threat to him if he cant get injured by him then why banish him upon his rebellion

he's no threat
no need to banish someone who cant hurt you





There is no real criteria

but ig supernatural and holds authority over something
That would be the consistent definition as it would include most beings dubbed gods by the people who made them





you think god poofed
animals and humans out of nothing into the earth

and that yahweh himself came from nothing
he just always existed


your belief requires alot more came from nothing then mine ever did

and even then
nobody thinks the universe came from nothing, what's supposed now is the big bang


and this

Bro alot of this gibberish is coming from the fact that you don't understand what the mainstream definition of god is, you think hypothesis and is factual (even rats share 97% similar DNA). By ignorance i mean this you lack of knowledge in Science and what god is and you keep basing you definition of an All powerful being to obviously things that aren't that even if its Christianity that literal believes 3= 1.. In addition to all of that nonsense, you are busy presupposing what i believe without confirming.. Again stems from generalizion and ignorance

There is no real criteria

but ig supernatural and holds authority over something
That would be the consistent definition as it would include most beings dubbed gods by the people who made them

Bro there is one.

Nothing claiming to be god can be dependent on something else for sustenance and is not limited by a humna body if god is all powerful and all encompassing he wouldn't be restricted to human limitations whether or not it has quirks like control of lightning or whatever.

The reason why this is the sole criteria is becuz that is what a god is

- creator who's not dependent on his creation

- not limited to fhe physics of this universe

- cannot turn from his all capable sefl to a measly human

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Orthodox hasn’t faded into obscurity. It’s the dominant religion in the Balkans and eastern Europe.

And I don’t think it’s fair to put the blame on Germans for all the different sects. The Catholic church at the time was very corrupt and taking advantage of the poor and Luther decided to stand up to them. Then the 30 Years War and the Roman Catholic Church trying to force everyone to be Catholic or die didn’t help as well. It was the Catholics who started this war that led to 4.5 - 8 million people dying, all because they had a different religious opinion.

To be clear, I am NOT saying your religious beliefs are corrupt or wrong. I am merely saying that at that specific moment in history, the people in charge were abusing their powers and the powerless decided to stand up for their basic human rights.

Holy hell
Wasn't expecting LAC to be a devout Catholic

 

[Phoenix D. King]

reviving this thread

devout Satanist here

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I feel like I need some sort of direction and community in my life.

I think I’m going to become Jewish. It’ll probably take a long time, but I think I can be satisfied with this.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

reviving this thread

devout Satanist here

 

[Phoenix D. King]

Define it

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Define it

I'm not into religious debate mate.

 

[Phoenix D. King]

I'm not into religious debate mate.

Not debating, you replied to me

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Not debating, you replied to me

Yes?