Questions & Mysteries How should Oda have transitioned Coby from weakling to Luffy rival
- Thread starter Tai long
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Luffy-Coby wont exactly be like Roger-Garp. Coby is more like Luffy's fan and younger brother that Luffy roots for. Roger-Garp had more fierce relationship.
I am sure about one thing: Coby will be the main player to beat Kuzan. But I dont see a 1on1. Grus will play a big role. Helmeppo, Kujaku, Hibari, etc. will also be a part of it. The Hachinosu gang is supposed to be a big threat to pirates. Its not only Coby, Garp called the rest of them as future of the marines. In fact, Grus should feel more responsible for abandoning Garp - they have a score to settle.
I am sure about one thing: Coby will be the main player to beat Kuzan. But I dont see a 1on1. Grus will play a big role. Helmeppo, Kujaku, Hibari, etc. will also be a part of it. The Hachinosu gang is supposed to be a big threat to pirates. Its not only Coby, Garp called the rest of them as future of the marines. In fact, Grus should feel more responsible for abandoning Garp - they have a score to settle.
Yes I see that happening, and most likely Kuzan will be weakened in some other way ontop of this.
Coby might land the final attack, that's the most I'll give him. 1v1 is impossible, anyone who thinks that's possible is on one.
Most likely Kuzan will pull a Sasori, and allow himself to be defeated in the final moments as he reflects on his decisions in life.
Coby might land the final attack, that's the most I'll give him. 1v1 is impossible, anyone who thinks that's possible is on one.
Most likely Kuzan will pull a Sasori, and allow himself to be defeated in the final moments as he reflects on his decisions in life.
Pretty much what Zenzu said
There's no world where Koby (realistically) catches up to Luffy without bullshit even if Oda included a million different training montages
Almost every notable and strong character in One Piece started fighting/training from an incredibly young age
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law, Jinbei, Yamato, Ace, Sabo, Garp, Kaido, Shanks, Blackbeard, Whitebeard, Big Mom, etc
Just about every exception took decades to hit their prime like Roger, Rayleigh, or the Admirals
Koby at 16 with 0 battle experience shouldn't be able to catch up to Luffy till way later in his life
There's no world where Koby (realistically) catches up to Luffy without bullshit even if Oda included a million different training montages
Almost every notable and strong character in One Piece started fighting/training from an incredibly young age
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law, Jinbei, Yamato, Ace, Sabo, Garp, Kaido, Shanks, Blackbeard, Whitebeard, Big Mom, etc
Just about every exception took decades to hit their prime like Roger, Rayleigh, or the Admirals
Koby at 16 with 0 battle experience shouldn't be able to catch up to Luffy till way later in his life
Show him once in a while, if Oda made shorter arcs like in the pre timeskip it would have been good to see him once every 2 arcs, now once at the end of each arcs would be more adeguate (probably not even enough since these arcs are very long, also it would become a boring recurrent element at that point). And show him improve in some way (defeating some strong pirate, show some feat by saving some village from natural events to make another example), also show him in some cover stories like when he was training with Helmeppo under Garp (that was a great way to show he was improving). But that would mean dedicate a lot of space to him while there are a gazillion characters that need space.
Indeed his justice punch was too far fetched powerwise compared to what was shown until that point, he was believed to be veteran level at best, maybe YC3 if somebody wanted to exaggerate, but that made him made a jump so big powerwise that sounded ridiculous. If you think about it it is the same for Zoro: he went from low diffing Pica while Luffy beat a YC3 (Doffy), so Zoro could at the very best be scaled to that G4 Luffy (tho he even failed to stop the plotcage, along with Fujitora) still in few weeks with some training of haki mastery on panel he went all the way to beat a YC1. And that sounded ridiculous since Zoro got almost no serious fights in the post time skip at least until Wano. He just got Pica as a semi serious fight before King. And that gave a lot of support to the notion that Zoro already started the post time skip (so Sabaody part 2) as a YC1 and so stronger than Luffy (who could not beat Kata before the plot gift him future sight and generic power ups in the middle of the fight plus the experience he get vs Doffy, Cracker etc.).
Indeed his justice punch was too far fetched powerwise compared to what was shown until that point, he was believed to be veteran level at best, maybe YC3 if somebody wanted to exaggerate, but that made him made a jump so big powerwise that sounded ridiculous. If you think about it it is the same for Zoro: he went from low diffing Pica while Luffy beat a YC3 (Doffy), so Zoro could at the very best be scaled to that G4 Luffy (tho he even failed to stop the plotcage, along with Fujitora) still in few weeks with some training of haki mastery on panel he went all the way to beat a YC1. And that sounded ridiculous since Zoro got almost no serious fights in the post time skip at least until Wano. He just got Pica as a semi serious fight before King. And that gave a lot of support to the notion that Zoro already started the post time skip (so Sabaody part 2) as a YC1 and so stronger than Luffy (who could not beat Kata before the plot gift him future sight and generic power ups in the middle of the fight plus the experience he get vs Doffy, Cracker etc.).
Tbh am not even convinced Kuzan needs to be defeated at some point. As far as we know, his hidden agenda could very well put him on the "right side" by the time of the final conflict.
I just don't really buy the idea that the narrative Oda is going for is that Kuzan has completely lost his way. He seemed sure of his path when talking to Smoker, outright stating that he is the same man he's always been, and didn't show any hint of being conflicted in his later interactions with the BB pirates. Only time he's been shaken was when circumstances put him directly against his mentor and idol.
Think Kuzan has simply chosen a path that requires sacrifices and unsavory allies but that the goal he is ultimately working towards is still very much alligned with the moral code that put him in conflict with Akainu. I doubt he is gonna be portrayed as a character that needs someone to beat some sense into him. In fact, the parallel with Coby might instead be here to show that certain battles cannot be won by being a pure hearted, admired and honest hero. You have to get your hands dirty sometimes.
Maybe this is just me being unable to stomach the idea of Kuzan being a Coby victim and being lectured about morals and values like some kid tho...
I just don't really buy the idea that the narrative Oda is going for is that Kuzan has completely lost his way. He seemed sure of his path when talking to Smoker, outright stating that he is the same man he's always been, and didn't show any hint of being conflicted in his later interactions with the BB pirates. Only time he's been shaken was when circumstances put him directly against his mentor and idol.
Think Kuzan has simply chosen a path that requires sacrifices and unsavory allies but that the goal he is ultimately working towards is still very much alligned with the moral code that put him in conflict with Akainu. I doubt he is gonna be portrayed as a character that needs someone to beat some sense into him. In fact, the parallel with Coby might instead be here to show that certain battles cannot be won by being a pure hearted, admired and honest hero. You have to get your hands dirty sometimes.
Maybe this is just me being unable to stomach the idea of Kuzan being a Coby victim and being lectured about morals and values like some kid tho...
