Future Events How would you feel if Oda makes the threat real?

Is Kaido's victory cry coming or not?

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nik87

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
‎
#1
#1
I have seen many complaints about Oda's writing lately - this bad, that bad, everything is bad!

People have always complained about One Piece. It happened in Fishman Island, it happened in Punk Hazard, same happened in Dresrossa as well as it occured in WCI... Now, considering that Wano is in its 4th year, whether things are good or bad, people just want to be over with it. People want a new kid on the block!

The complaints are usually not really justified, for this type of product. It is not rare that people say when re-reading the arc they complained, it looked much better on the second read, it wasnt that bad... Seems like the issue is weekly pacing, people are impatient. Most of them read the first half of One Piece with all the chapters already available and now when they have to get crumbs on weekly basis, heads need to roll!

Anyway, I digress... Would it be good writing or bad writing if Oda never gives Luffy a win over Kaido?
How would you feel if the threat came true? Would that make the story better or worse? Is breaking the pattern what you want or not?
What threat, you might ask... The threat about Oda not knowing what to do with Luffy vs Kaido, that he WILL NOT make him win just because he punches hard... I say that is a serious threat. You might say that he already solved that issue by not making it 1vs1 and instead made it 15vs1 and gave Luffy 4 losses along the way. That might be true and I thought it would be solved that way but then I remembered something - it is nothing new! Oda has already been using that since Doflamingo!

Is it possible that Oda will do the unthinkable - leave his golden boy empty-handed? What did he give him in the last 4 years?
If that truly is supposed to happen, it's the perfect opportunity to happen against the guy who is 1vs1 king and the strongest individual in the whole world while Luffy is still a rookie who is struggling to leave the high tier behind him and step up into the big league...

Most people would probably react with "He would never do that to Luffy" and I dont blame them. Most people see Luffy in a better light than he actually is... However, this arc is different, something unseen before. One Emperor already fell despite Luffy promising he would beat all 4 of them!
And that Emperor fell in a way that no character had a finishing shot at her. If he can take out O-Lin without giving anyone the final blow, is it too wild that he would do something new with Kaido too?

I am not talking about ZKK, which in itself has tons of build-up but about how Oda plans to finish the part between Luffy and Kaido.
We already got a hint at the possible loss of Luffy through LinLin's words - I didnt hear Kaido's victory cry yet...
What would such development do for the story? I know Luffybros would be furious but what about others? Would they welcome such a thing?
How would it affect Luffy going forward? Is he ready to meet Shanks without a win over Kaido despite technically getting a win due to his crew member offing Kaido?

What do you think about it? Is a lack of win here good or bad for future storytelling?
Yours truly, high lord Kitetsu-dono aka nik87.



@kenedyfake @Topi Jerami @Sentinel @comrade @Admiral Lee Hung @Light D Lamperouge @SinOfGreed @KiriNigiri @Den_Den_Mushi @trav @Demongodzolo @Marimo_420 @MarimoHeado @Aknolagon @Cyrus the Cactus @Rivaille @Monet @Pantheos @Garp the Fist @Gol D. Roger @Afroking @ImmaIvanoM @MarineHQ62 @Luffy bin Dragon @Luffy is the mc @Rmstorm @Fenaker @yj @Fiji @playa4321 @Guan Yu @Ice devil slayer @Sword God Ryuma @Zenos7 @Akai2 @MasterD @Jew D. Boy @RayanOO @Haoshoku @Dark Hound @Camie @Thabeast @style @Queen @zorojurou @RyumaZoro @Gon’s Missing Arm @Yo Tan Wa @Orojackson Refugee @Sunita @IceWitch @ShadyOjiro @wordyworm @LolonoisZolo @Grumpy Zoro @HA001 @HAJIKATA @Dragomir @Natalija @Enma @Rukusho @Sade @Sadistic Senpai @stormylife @Geo @Reborn @BossYimz @Cinera @ShishioIsBack @Shishi @Nidai_Kitetsu @Mikail @mly90 @The White Crane @Gauntlet @LordWhis @Kuro Ashi @Jo_Ndule @sanjikun @Extravlad @Inflamed Haki @Buusatan94 @AL sama @Patryipe @Kiwipom @Owl Ki @Salah WG @stairs-kun @BOCCHI @EtenBoby @Fujishiro @Bogard @LadyVados @Punpun @Titty Croissant @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @I'mTired @Gensui Sazid @Marco @Erkan12 @Blackbeard @Alpha @matt245 @God D usopp @Shanal @ConquistadoR @Jet Pistol @Captain Luffy @Brendan Schaub @park_min young @Daikenki @WesMidnight @Echizen_Jo_Ndule @serialwinnerv7 @Malick the last Light @Worona Woro @yorosenpai @Shinsekai @King of the world @ShadowStyle369
 
lee33

lee33

‎
#5
#5
nik87 said:
The complaints are usually not really justified, for this type of product. It is not rare that people say when re-reading the arc they complained, it looked much better on the second read, it wasnt that bad... Seems like the issue is weekly pacing, people are impatient. Most of them read the first half of One Piece with all the chapters already available and now when they have to get crumbs on weekly basis, heads need to roll!
Click to expand...
Ah yes, because nik87 knows how we feel better than us. Lmfao with yet another "re-read" excuse. I swear you guys are so thick in the skull. Just injecting your own logic because to you there is no way One Piece can be bad so when someone criticizes it you try to rationalize why, and the "reread" is what you guys come up with. It's hilarious! The mind of a fanboy is too funny. I literally made a full analysis on why Wano is shit, it has absolutely nothing to do with "reread".
 
The White Crane

The White Crane

‎
#7
#7
nik87 said:
I have seen many complaints about Oda's writing lately - this bad, that bad, everything is bad!

People have always complained about One Piece. It happened in Fishman Island, it happened in Punk Hazard, same happened in Dresrossa as well as it occured in WCI... Now, considering that Wano is in its 4th year, whether things are good or bad, people just want to be over with it. People want a new kid on the block!

The complaints are usually not really justified, for this type of product. It is not rare that people say when re-reading the arc they complained, it looked much better on the second read, it wasnt that bad... Seems like the issue is weekly pacing, people are impatient. Most of them read the first half of One Piece with all the chapters already available and now when they have to get crumbs on weekly basis, heads need to roll!

Anyway, I digress... Would it be good writing or bad writing if Oda never gives Luffy a win over Kaido?
How would you feel if the threat came true? Would that make the story better or worse? Is breaking the pattern what you want or not?
What threat, you might ask... The threat about Oda not knowing what to do with Luffy vs Kaido, that he WILL NOT make him win just because he punches hard... I say that is a serious threat. You might say that he already solved that issue by not making it 1vs1 and instead made it 15vs1 and gave Luffy 4 losses along the way. That might be true and I thought it would be solved that way but then I remembered something - it is nothing new! Oda has already been using that since Doflamingo!

Is it possible that Oda will do the unthinkable - leave his golden boy empty-handed? What did he give him in the last 4 years?
If that truly is supposed to happen, it's the perfect opportunity to happen against the guy who is 1vs1 king and the strongest individual in the whole world while Luffy is still a rookie who is struggling to leave the high tier behind him and step up into the big league...

Most people would probably react with "He would never do that to Luffy" and I dont blame them. Most people see Luffy in a better light than he actually is... However, this arc is different, something unseen before. One Emperor already fell despite Luffy promising he would beat all 4 of them!
And that Emperor fell in a way that no character had a finishing shot at her. If he can take out O-Lin without giving anyone the final blow, is it too wild that he would do something new with Kaido too?

I am not talking about ZKK, which in itself has tons of build-up but about how Oda plans to finish the part between Luffy and Kaido.
We already got a hint at the possible loss of Luffy through LinLin's words - I didnt hear Kaido's victory cry yet...
What would such development do for the story? I know Luffybros would be furious but what about others? Would they welcome such a thing?
How would it affect Luffy going forward? Is he ready to meet Shanks without a win over Kaido despite technically getting a win due to his crew member offing Kaido?

What do you think about it? Is a lack of win here good or bad for future storytelling?
Yours truly, high lord Kitetsu-dono aka nik87.



@kenedyfake @Topi Jerami @Sentinel @comrade @Admiral Lee Hung @Light D Lamperouge @SinOfGreed @KiriNigiri @Den_Den_Mushi @trav @Demongodzolo @Marimo_420 @MarimoHeado @Aknolagon @Cyrus the Cactus @Rivaille @Monet @Pantheos @Garp the Fist @Gol D. Roger @Afroking @ImmaIvanoM @MarineHQ62 @Luffy bin Dragon @Luffy is the mc @Rmstorm @Fenaker @yj @Fiji @playa4321 @Guan Yu @Ice devil slayer @Sword God Ryuma @Zenos7 @Akai2 @MasterD @Jew D. Boy @RayanOO @Haoshoku @Dark Hound @Camie @Thabeast @style @Queen @zorojurou @RyumaZoro @Gon’s Missing Arm @Yo Tan Wa @Orojackson Refugee @Sunita @IceWitch @ShadyOjiro @wordyworm @LolonoisZolo @Grumpy Zoro @HA001 @HAJIKATA @Dragomir @Natalija @Enma @Rukusho @Sade @Sadistic Senpai @stormylife @Geo @Reborn @BossYimz @Cinera @ShishioIsBack @Shishi @Nidai_Kitetsu @Mikail @mly90 @The White Crane @Gauntlet @LordWhis @Kuro Ashi @Jo_Ndule @sanjikun @Extravlad @Inflamed Haki @Buusatan94 @AL sama @Patryipe @Kiwipom @Owl Ki @Salah WG @stairs-kun @BOCCHI @EtenBoby @Fujishiro @Bogard @LadyVados @Punpun @Titty Croissant @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @I'mTired @Gensui Sazid @Marco @Erkan12 @Blackbeard @Alpha @matt245 @God D usopp @Shanal @ConquistadoR @Jet Pistol @Captain Luffy @Brendan Schaub @park_min young @Daikenki @WesMidnight @Echizen_Jo_Ndule @serialwinnerv7 @Malick the last Light @Worona Woro @yorosenpai @Shinsekai @King of the world @ShadowStyle369
Click to expand...
Good or bad writing does not rely on the result of a fight, but on how it is delivered. The criticism toward Cook vs Queen is an example here.

However, I feel like Luffy HAS to solo Hybrid Kaido at least once if only to preserve Luffy's credibility as the captain.
 
Crocks

Crocks

‎
#9
#9
nik87 said:
I have seen many complaints about Oda's writing lately - this bad, that bad, everything is bad!

People have always complained about One Piece. It happened in Fishman Island, it happened in Punk Hazard, same happened in Dresrossa as well as it occured in WCI... Now, considering that Wano is in its 4th year, whether things are good or bad, people just want to be over with it. People want a new kid on the block!

The complaints are usually not really justified, for this type of product. It is not rare that people say when re-reading the arc they complained, it looked much better on the second read, it wasnt that bad... Seems like the issue is weekly pacing, people are impatient. Most of them read the first half of One Piece with all the chapters already available and now when they have to get crumbs on weekly basis, heads need to roll!

Anyway, I digress... Would it be good writing or bad writing if Oda never gives Luffy a win over Kaido?
How would you feel if the threat came true? Would that make the story better or worse? Is breaking the pattern what you want or not?
What threat, you might ask... The threat about Oda not knowing what to do with Luffy vs Kaido, that he WILL NOT make him win just because he punches hard... I say that is a serious threat. You might say that he already solved that issue by not making it 1vs1 and instead made it 15vs1 and gave Luffy 4 losses along the way. That might be true and I thought it would be solved that way but then I remembered something - it is nothing new! Oda has already been using that since Doflamingo!

Is it possible that Oda will do the unthinkable - leave his golden boy empty-handed? What did he give him in the last 4 years?
If that truly is supposed to happen, it's the perfect opportunity to happen against the guy who is 1vs1 king and the strongest individual in the whole world while Luffy is still a rookie who is struggling to leave the high tier behind him and step up into the big league...

Most people would probably react with "He would never do that to Luffy" and I dont blame them. Most people see Luffy in a better light than he actually is... However, this arc is different, something unseen before. One Emperor already fell despite Luffy promising he would beat all 4 of them!
And that Emperor fell in a way that no character had a finishing shot at her. If he can take out O-Lin without giving anyone the final blow, is it too wild that he would do something new with Kaido too?

I am not talking about ZKK, which in itself has tons of build-up but about how Oda plans to finish the part between Luffy and Kaido.
We already got a hint at the possible loss of Luffy through LinLin's words - I didnt hear Kaido's victory cry yet...
What would such development do for the story? I know Luffybros would be furious but what about others? Would they welcome such a thing?
How would it affect Luffy going forward? Is he ready to meet Shanks without a win over Kaido despite technically getting a win due to his crew member offing Kaido?

What do you think about it? Is a lack of win here good or bad for future storytelling?
Yours truly, high lord Kitetsu-dono aka nik87.



@kenedyfake @Topi Jerami @Sentinel @comrade @Admiral Lee Hung @Light D Lamperouge @SinOfGreed @KiriNigiri @Den_Den_Mushi @trav @Demongodzolo @Marimo_420 @MarimoHeado @Aknolagon @Cyrus the Cactus @Rivaille @Monet @Pantheos @Garp the Fist @Gol D. Roger @Afroking @ImmaIvanoM @MarineHQ62 @Luffy bin Dragon @Luffy is the mc @Rmstorm @Fenaker @yj @Fiji @playa4321 @Guan Yu @Ice devil slayer @Sword God Ryuma @Zenos7 @Akai2 @MasterD @Jew D. Boy @RayanOO @Haoshoku @Dark Hound @Camie @Thabeast @style @Queen @zorojurou @RyumaZoro @Gon’s Missing Arm @Yo Tan Wa @Orojackson Refugee @Sunita @IceWitch @ShadyOjiro @wordyworm @LolonoisZolo @Grumpy Zoro @HA001 @HAJIKATA @Dragomir @Natalija @Enma @Rukusho @Sade @Sadistic Senpai @stormylife @Geo @Reborn @BossYimz @Cinera @ShishioIsBack @Shishi @Nidai_Kitetsu @Mikail @mly90 @The White Crane @Gauntlet @LordWhis @Kuro Ashi @Jo_Ndule @sanjikun @Extravlad @Inflamed Haki @Buusatan94 @AL sama @Patryipe @Kiwipom @Owl Ki @Salah WG @stairs-kun @BOCCHI @EtenBoby @Fujishiro @Bogard @LadyVados @Punpun @Titty Croissant @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @I'mTired @Gensui Sazid @Marco @Erkan12 @Blackbeard @Alpha @matt245 @God D usopp @Shanal @ConquistadoR @Jet Pistol @Captain Luffy @Brendan Schaub @park_min young @Daikenki @WesMidnight @Echizen_Jo_Ndule @serialwinnerv7 @Malick the last Light @Worona Woro @yorosenpai @Shinsekai @King of the world @ShadowStyle369
Click to expand...
You asked what we think of it. I answer for myself:
On the subject, I think that regardless of how it happens, whether Luffy or Zoro defeating Kaido, it's going to be incoherent shit from Goda's worn-out writing. About your text, I think it's a waste of time and contradictory, because it's all about the ZKK and you said you weren't talking about the ZKK, LoL.
 
comrade

comrade

‎
#12
#12
Luffy's goal: being the freest
Zoro's goal: being the strongest

Luffy's strongest ability: to turn those around him into his allies. With his crew being the gathering of people who will stand at the top of their respective goal.

Luffy having the strongest person in history as his right hand man will but undermine what great of a captain Luffy is.
 
Mr. Tuna Sandwich

Mr. Tuna Sandwich

SII - Sakazuki Incinerate Imu
‎
#16
#16
Steven said:
I dont rly like the Idea of Luffy beating Kaido in a 1on1 scenario

If he does,is Luffy the new 1on1 King?Makes no sense
Click to expand...
Crydo never was the 1v1 King it's literally confirmed he did't beat other Yonko and avoid the WG interfernce and had a cheap victory against Oden so get over it Crydo only beat weak pirates to submission not strong pirates that's why he don't have any CoC user as an underling and even his daughter rebel against him
 
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G

Gorosei Informer

#20
#20
HA001 said:
If he loses again I'm gonna laugh
Click to expand...
Me if Luffy loses AGAIN and this arc and fight gets dragged out even more:



:lusalty::goatasure:


Given Kidd and Law have just "defeated" Big Mom at least for now anyway and the YC's and Tobi Roppo have fallen, it's only fitting that Kaido does now too. It would get far too ridiculous if Luffy loses again.

There's still his awakening to gain as well as Kaido's but I don't even know if we're getting Kaido's awakening anymore, but at this point, I just want this fight over once and for all and to move on from Wano and the plot FINALLY! Sick of all these mysteries, cockteases, setups, offscreens, silhouettes and such!

Luffy needs a solo win vs Kaido, he can defy the reputation of always betting on Kaido in a 1v1 and its the natural step up from 2 Supernovas and Luffy's "rivals" from Sabaody beating another Yonko just now too.

I am seriously worried about the Chekov's Gun of Kaido's apparent victory cry that Big Mom mentioned but we could still get that in a flashback for him instead?
Knowing Oda it might even be a literal cry as in the "Crydo" we've had so far! I think it will be something cathartic, a victory yell
filled with anguish, the relief of a deep struggle and suffering, a feeling of accomplishment, justice, revenge even maybe? This is assuming it comes from a certain moment in his flashback ofc?

Considering how blatantly proud of his race Kaido is and how much Moria bastardised the corpse of Oars his ancestor and used it for such disgusting/disgraceful means and such, Kaido will also be FURIOUS to see that! I wonder if this is how and thus why and what led to Kaido slaughtering Moria's crew before too? We've seen Kaido doesn't kill as often as we would expect and prefers to try to break people's wills, have them tortured and try to force them to submit to him and his crew and join them, giving him more military strength.

There's still a lot to learn about Kaido, his heritage, why he has such a complex and conflicting psyche and powerful views about humanity, death, his own race, betrayal and traitors and such. I think we're gonna see a very tragic side to Kaido like with Big Mom and his victory yell might be something haunting, something to make us awe and even feel some kind of empathic pain for him, whether it happens or not and if it happens presently vs Luffy or in his past via flashback.

Kaido seems like one of the best foils to Luffy like Katakuri and what we saw of him especially in King's unfairly brief flashback alludes that he and Luffy really are similar in a way. I've suspected it for a while and that they were smiling and enjoying fighting each other as I don't remember Luffy doing with anyone before is a very profound sign too.

Moria was said to be a Luffy of the previous generation who didn't have his plot armour and much worser luck and funnily enough Big Mom sort of feels like a Yonko equivalent of Moria too.
I actually had a headcanon that her children weren't real before, they were all made by her DF and just brought to life, dolls, sculptures, and such given life by her to act as her children. Thinking of it now, her backstory had all the children she knew presumably slaughtered by her own hands unintentionally and she ironically unaware she is the reason for their apparent disappearances and thus deaths. Some of them might even be alive as these CP0 agents too but we'll see.

But yeah to get back on the topic, I'd be extremely disappointed if Luffy lost now and especially also if he goes to meet Shanks without defeating a Yonko himself before Shanks. I have wanted Shanks to be Luffy's solo fight but I think Kidd wll be involved vs him and maybe Law too but how can this work if Luffy is meant to solo a Yonko before Shanks?
Also those 3 may even be too strong for Shanks maybe post Wano ofc? And I say this as a massive Shanks stan/wankerr too lmao.

Luffy really needs this win for various reasons and imo for our sakes too. I really hate the idea he must lose as many times as Kaido has in the past, that's absolutely ridiculous. I'm tired of seeing Luffy get wrecked especially in this arc and the same formula of him "bouncing back" and kicking ass eventually later, I know Oda has his Dragonball influences and that Luffy is a "rubber man" so bouncing back is "only natural" for him too, I really want to see him get a massive W and by himself, on his own terms too. Luffy already got declared "an Emperor" post WCI and now is the time for him to truly deliver on that claim and defeat another Emperor and take their title and replace them, becoming a "Yonko" specifically then!

I really liked that Oda made Luffy fight Fujitora solo at Dressrosa and that gave me hope for Luffy to solo fight and win vs an Admiral not long from then as well as Yonkos too. That's also why we need this imo, Luffy needs to solo Kaido and win. It's another sort of mirror match like him and Katakuri, (more literally with Katakuri) and even Lucci who Kaido is like the post TS equivalent of, has shown up here too! It's all coming together!
Post automatically merged:

comrade said:
Luffy's goal: being the freest
Zoro's goal: being the strongest

Luffy's strongest ability: to turn those around him into his allies. With his crew being the gathering of people who will stand at the top of their respective goal.

Luffy having the strongest person in history as his right hand man will but undermine what great of a captain Luffy is.
Click to expand...
This is a very interesting perspective as both Kaido and WB were under Xebec's leadership before ofc, WB became the WSM and now Kaido is the "World's Strongest Creature" and maybe Man too?

It would make sense for Zoro to be "The Very Very Strongest" and we saw Roger had an absolute monster like Bullet in his crew (who may not be canon ofc but still) and was equivalent to Rayleigh apparently! But I think he was still losing to and even getting wrecked by Roger? I've not fully watched Stampede yet...

Like Luffy with much bigger and more powerful beasts and even people than himself, he commanded respect from them, he impressed them and gained favour, similarly to Usopp and literal giants too and it would be extremely heartwarming and impressive if Luffy's oldest serving crewmate, his right hand, brother in arms and most loyal ally and crewmate is stronger than him BUT he follows Luffy out of respect, adoration/admiration and simply because he wants to, despite being stronger than him!


You said it very concisely/succinctly ofc, but I really wanted to elaborate on it haha. The very power Mihawk stated he has, the power to turn even enemies into allies, to gather so many on his side from his own will, charisma, personality and such. Truly a terrifying and yet awe inspiring ability.
:finally:

:zosmug::cheers::lumazed:
 
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