Powers & Abilities I think Shanks Conqueror's Haki is getting a bit too overrated
- Thread starter ShishioIsBack
- Start date
I think people underestimate how much of an anomaly roger was
Just because roger was able to be just as strong as whitebeard through his haki doesn't mean it's something anyone can do
At least on the pirates side no one has been able to reach that level yet with or without a fruit after roger and newgate passed. Since we know that the next strongest after them was kaido
Not including pirates you can definitely argue for garp and maybe maybe dragon i guess if he doesn't have a fruit
Just because roger was able to be just as strong as whitebeard through his haki doesn't mean it's something anyone can do
At least on the pirates side no one has been able to reach that level yet with or without a fruit after roger and newgate passed. Since we know that the next strongest after them was kaido
Not including pirates you can definitely argue for garp and maybe maybe dragon i guess if he doesn't have a fruit
On panel feats suggest otherwise, from damaging inanimate objects, to temporarily paralyzing an Admiral.
Every Top Tier has a gimmick which allows them to even the playing field with all other Top Tiers. For Shanks, it is his CoC that is heavily emphasized, the likes which no other character has gotten.
Every Top Tier has a gimmick which allows them to even the playing field with all other Top Tiers. For Shanks, it is his CoC that is heavily emphasized, the likes which no other character has gotten.
He gets hyped for his Haki more than anyone else and this is prior to bitchin GreenCow.
The same way no other swordsman can be compared to Mihawk no other Haki user can currently be compared to Shanks
At this point it's pretty much a fact otherwise Shanks shouldn't be considered a top tier by Oda since he only has 1 arm and no devil fruit
The same way no other swordsman can be compared to Mihawk no other Haki user can currently be compared to Shanks
At this point it's pretty much a fact otherwise Shanks shouldn't be considered a top tier by Oda since he only has 1 arm and no devil fruit
That's just his fighting style. I wouldn't even say Mihawks gimmick is his Swordsmanship, but rather him forging a black blade, and how one goes about it, is.
You have to look at it from what Shanks and Mihawk represent, and who it is that representation pertains to. Luffy and Zoro.
The tangible goal for Zoro is forging a black blade, which I still 100 percent believe is CoA related. Zoro just so happens to specialize in CoA.
The tangible goal for Luffy when it comes to Shanks would have to be something that can apply to both of them. Devil fruits are out of the question. Luffys not a swordsman. So that leaves Haki. Luffy specializes in CoC, and all of Shanks biggest feats involve CoC.
Luffy needs to surpass Roger who should be the Strongest CoC user to ever live, but how do you place the measuring stick with Luffy to a dead man? You can't, so the only option is to create someone at least comparable to having that level of CoC, and have that person be the MCs tangible goal.
And just to clarify, I am not saying Shanks is all around as strong as Roger was, but his CoC needs to be up there for the sake of Luffys progression, and to let us, the readers know that he is finally deserving of the title of Pirate King, much like Zoro forging a black blade and beating Mihawk let's us know he is finally deserving of the WSS title.
You have to look at it from what Shanks and Mihawk represent, and who it is that representation pertains to. Luffy and Zoro.
The tangible goal for Zoro is forging a black blade, which I still 100 percent believe is CoA related. Zoro just so happens to specialize in CoA.
The tangible goal for Luffy when it comes to Shanks would have to be something that can apply to both of them. Devil fruits are out of the question. Luffys not a swordsman. So that leaves Haki. Luffy specializes in CoC, and all of Shanks biggest feats involve CoC.
Luffy needs to surpass Roger who should be the Strongest CoC user to ever live, but how do you place the measuring stick with Luffy to a dead man? You can't, so the only option is to create someone at least comparable to having that level of CoC, and have that person be the MCs tangible goal.
And just to clarify, I am not saying Shanks is all around as strong as Roger was, but his CoC needs to be up there for the sake of Luffys progression, and to let us, the readers know that he is finally deserving of the title of Pirate King, much like Zoro forging a black blade and beating Mihawk let's us know he is finally deserving of the WSS title.
So I like Shanks I really do and this isn't an attempt to downplay Shanks but to calm down his wank just a little bit. I don't mean to have @Red Admiral go crazy once again and start wishing deaths on Zoro fans lol (Jk bro I like you) but I think the wank is getting just a tad bit out of control.
I think Shanks conqueror's Haki is strong, obviously one of the strongest in the World but to suggest he has strongest conqueror's Haki of all time and no one besides Roger and Xebec even comes close doesn't sit well with me.
I have following issues with Shanks having strongest Conqueror's Haki of all time and even same level as Roger's
Just look at what conqueror's Haki actually is
Shanks doesn't have Gol D Roger's Ambition
As Rayleigh describes it, one of the biggest aspects of Conqueror's Haki is changing the world, associating it with the ambition. I always fail to understand what Shanks ambition is. What has he truly done besides becoming an emperor?
And becoming an emperor is great but following long list of people have done that as well
-Whitebeard
-Kaido
-Big Mom
-Blackbeard
-Buggy
-Luffy
It seems to be about as common as Warlord these days and apparently it is not very hard to become an emperor for a top tier either as Mihawk recently just casually rejected the yonko title and to get Yonko title he just had to kill Buggy
Pirate King title how ever has been portrayed as end all be all of all the Pirate ambitions. Everyone wants to be Pirate King, all four Yonko are in the race to be Pirate King, as a matter of fact the latest chapter shows even Shanks himself is trying to get One Piece. Well is he gonna get it? Lets see.
Shanks Swordsmanship is Surpassed by Mihawk's
Well this one Shanks fans really not gonna like because for years they have been struggling to separate Haki from Swordsmanship and create a non existent idea of Hakimanship but reality is Haki and Swordsmanship goes hand in hand.
It can't be denied that Shanks has been confirmed a swordsman by Oda himself unlike King and unlike King Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit
A swordsman has to be a Hakiman and as the manga progresses, we learn more and more important things that are needed to become Strongest Swordsman in the World through Zoro's journey and the biggest development as a Swordsmanship that Zoro has learned is King of Hell
King of Hell is the powerup based entirely on Zoro incorporating Advanced Conqueror's Haki with his blades to make his attack power stronger and his blades more durable. Zoro's Haki was much stronger than King's and that's why when Zoro's Haki clashed with King's Haki coated Sword, King's sword broke into two pieces. If Shanks conqueror's Haki is superior to Mihawk's, when both of them go all out with their Haki and thier blades clash, Mihawk's Yoru would break. And if Shanks can break Yoru then Mihawk's swordsmanship doesn't surpass Shanks and Mihawk is not the strongest Swordsman in the World.
Not to mention Mihawk's ambition is superior, his title is superior and having grand ambition is one of the biggest aspect of Conqueror's Haki
Rayleigh has made bigger name for himself than Shanks
It is another manga fact that Straw Hats had no idea who Yonko and Admirals were, they didn't even know the concept of Yonko title and Luffy knows Shanks only because I mean he's met him as a kid
The point about Rayleigh being more famous than Admirals is irrelevant to the thread but prove is they didn't know who Aokiji was, who Kizaru was or what being an Admiral truly means. I think they learned that shit from Nico Robin but either way this is thread about Shanks
Rayleigh name is known by all Straw hats, his name is known in all the books of history
And it isn't just Rayleigh riding Roger's Coattails, no one knows Oden or Marco, Whitebeard's RHM candidates, no one knows Crocus, Oden not being known by Straw hats is also a double W for Rayleigh because he traveled with Roger as well.
And considering Zoro's bounty is 1/3rd of Luffy's I am not even sure how much clout Ray is getting from Roger' name. Thing is Rayleigh played a huge part in changing the world as Roger's partner as Roger asked him to. Roger would no be pirate king without his right hand man.
They have gone around the World, they have attained knowledge of void century and Rayleigh has accumulated such a name value that an Emperor shivers and sweats in his pre
sence when he is 80 years old, completely retired and no where near his Prime.
He can order a Yonko around and Marines around to leave the Island and they obey him.
Such is the name The Dark King has made for himself
It doesn't help that to put a cap on this all, Oda himself thinks Old and Rusty Rayleigh's Conqueror's Haki compares to Shanks. Again his Haki at that age must be no where near his Prime
Shanks doesn't command the kinda people that Rocks D Xebec does
I mean same thing applies to Roger as well, Rayleigh's worth alone is more than worth of Benn Beckman and rest of Red Hair pirates combined but one crew that is head and shoulders above Shanks is Rocks Pirates.
Rocks has who's who of One Piece Pirate History in his crew
And one of the aspects of Conqueror's Haki is to make strong people follow you. No one in history done it the way Rocks has. Well Buggy is exception to that rule of course
Kaido uses Roger as an Example of Peak CoC
So Shanks has fought Kaido and we know that as he has Shanks among 5 people who can fight him
But he never separated Shanks Conqueror's Haki from Oden's, he never suggested Shanks can do any more damage to him than Oden can.
He how ever went out of his way to highlight Gol D Roger's Conqueror's Haki
SOME RED HAIR FAN ARGUMENTS
"Shanks is always associated with his Conqueror's Haki and he's shown it in chapter 1"
Umm yeah sure but don't look at things from tunnel vision, yes Shanks was showing Haki in chapter 1 but he was literally introduced in chapter 1. Of course he is associate with Haki but he's not the only one.
First piece of action Silver's Rayleigh did and it was literally in his introduction chapter was Flex his conqueror's Haki while he was in chains
First thing Gol D Roger did was show people use of Advanced Conqueror's Haki
"Oda used Shanks to show Conqueror's Haki to users"
Yes and he used Silver's Rayleigh to teach Conqueror's Haki not just to Luffy but to readers as well. We understand what Conqueror's Haki is now through Silvers Rayleigh
"Shanks has the best feats of CoC"
Well I say that is debatable at best. I don't know how useful Shanks going all out with his CoC and giving an Admiral a vibration at best is in combat, but we literally haven't seen Mihawk go all out with his Haki, Rayleigh go all out with his Haki, Bajrang Gun, Roger vs Whitebeard etc was showing more CoC Potency.
There are many different aspects of CoC and just one feat doesn't shown anything.
How do you know Rayleigh can't do that?
Roger can't do that?
Conclusion
I think all and all Shanks has a very strong Haki, probably top 5 of all time but I don't think he has the strongest Haki
I think at least following people have stronger CoC than him
-Roger
-Xebec
-Rayleigh
-Mihawk
Few other people who potentially surpass him are Dragon, Garp, Ryuma and Joy Boy
@Gol D. Roger
@TheAncientCenturion
@Jiihad
@Natalija
@AL sama
@Pantheos
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@SakazOuki
@MarineHQ
@silverfire
@Sentinel
@Garp the Fist
@Fenaker
@Gensui Sazid
@HA001
@ConquistadoR
@Shanal
Etc
Sorry forgot to tag Sanji fans
@Kurozumi Chrono
@kurwa
@SkySanji
@MonsterZoro
@Vinsmoke D. Zolo
Idk who else
I think Shanks conqueror's Haki is strong, obviously one of the strongest in the World but to suggest he has strongest conqueror's Haki of all time and no one besides Roger and Xebec even comes close doesn't sit well with me.
I have following issues with Shanks having strongest Conqueror's Haki of all time and even same level as Roger's
Just look at what conqueror's Haki actually is
Shanks doesn't have Gol D Roger's Ambition
As Rayleigh describes it, one of the biggest aspects of Conqueror's Haki is changing the world, associating it with the ambition. I always fail to understand what Shanks ambition is. What has he truly done besides becoming an emperor?
And becoming an emperor is great but following long list of people have done that as well
-Whitebeard
-Kaido
-Big Mom
-Blackbeard
-Buggy
-Luffy
It seems to be about as common as Warlord these days and apparently it is not very hard to become an emperor for a top tier either as Mihawk recently just casually rejected the yonko title and to get Yonko title he just had to kill Buggy
Pirate King title how ever has been portrayed as end all be all of all the Pirate ambitions. Everyone wants to be Pirate King, all four Yonko are in the race to be Pirate King, as a matter of fact the latest chapter shows even Shanks himself is trying to get One Piece. Well is he gonna get it? Lets see.
Shanks Swordsmanship is Surpassed by Mihawk's
Well this one Shanks fans really not gonna like because for years they have been struggling to separate Haki from Swordsmanship and create a non existent idea of Hakimanship but reality is Haki and Swordsmanship goes hand in hand.
It can't be denied that Shanks has been confirmed a swordsman by Oda himself unlike King and unlike King Shanks doesn't have a devil fruit
A swordsman has to be a Hakiman and as the manga progresses, we learn more and more important things that are needed to become Strongest Swordsman in the World through Zoro's journey and the biggest development as a Swordsmanship that Zoro has learned is King of Hell
King of Hell is the powerup based entirely on Zoro incorporating Advanced Conqueror's Haki with his blades to make his attack power stronger and his blades more durable. Zoro's Haki was much stronger than King's and that's why when Zoro's Haki clashed with King's Haki coated Sword, King's sword broke into two pieces. If Shanks conqueror's Haki is superior to Mihawk's, when both of them go all out with their Haki and thier blades clash, Mihawk's Yoru would break. And if Shanks can break Yoru then Mihawk's swordsmanship doesn't surpass Shanks and Mihawk is not the strongest Swordsman in the World.
Not to mention Mihawk's ambition is superior, his title is superior and having grand ambition is one of the biggest aspect of Conqueror's Haki
Rayleigh has made bigger name for himself than Shanks
It is another manga fact that Straw Hats had no idea who Yonko and Admirals were, they didn't even know the concept of Yonko title and Luffy knows Shanks only because I mean he's met him as a kid
The point about Rayleigh being more famous than Admirals is irrelevant to the thread but prove is they didn't know who Aokiji was, who Kizaru was or what being an Admiral truly means. I think they learned that shit from Nico Robin but either way this is thread about Shanks
Rayleigh name is known by all Straw hats, his name is known in all the books of history
And it isn't just Rayleigh riding Roger's Coattails, no one knows Oden or Marco, Whitebeard's RHM candidates, no one knows Crocus, Oden not being known by Straw hats is also a double W for Rayleigh because he traveled with Roger as well.
And considering Zoro's bounty is 1/3rd of Luffy's I am not even sure how much clout Ray is getting from Roger' name. Thing is Rayleigh played a huge part in changing the world as Roger's partner as Roger asked him to. Roger would no be pirate king without his right hand man.
They have gone around the World, they have attained knowledge of void century and Rayleigh has accumulated such a name value that an Emperor shivers and sweats in his pre
sence when he is 80 years old, completely retired and no where near his Prime.
He can order a Yonko around and Marines around to leave the Island and they obey him.
Such is the name The Dark King has made for himself
It doesn't help that to put a cap on this all, Oda himself thinks Old and Rusty Rayleigh's Conqueror's Haki compares to Shanks. Again his Haki at that age must be no where near his Prime
Shanks doesn't command the kinda people that Rocks D Xebec does
I mean same thing applies to Roger as well, Rayleigh's worth alone is more than worth of Benn Beckman and rest of Red Hair pirates combined but one crew that is head and shoulders above Shanks is Rocks Pirates.
Rocks has who's who of One Piece Pirate History in his crew
And one of the aspects of Conqueror's Haki is to make strong people follow you. No one in history done it the way Rocks has. Well Buggy is exception to that rule of course
Kaido uses Roger as an Example of Peak CoC
So Shanks has fought Kaido and we know that as he has Shanks among 5 people who can fight him
But he never separated Shanks Conqueror's Haki from Oden's, he never suggested Shanks can do any more damage to him than Oden can.
He how ever went out of his way to highlight Gol D Roger's Conqueror's Haki
SOME RED HAIR FAN ARGUMENTS
"Shanks is always associated with his Conqueror's Haki and he's shown it in chapter 1"
Umm yeah sure but don't look at things from tunnel vision, yes Shanks was showing Haki in chapter 1 but he was literally introduced in chapter 1. Of course he is associate with Haki but he's not the only one.
First piece of action Silver's Rayleigh did and it was literally in his introduction chapter was Flex his conqueror's Haki while he was in chains
First thing Gol D Roger did was show people use of Advanced Conqueror's Haki
"Oda used Shanks to show Conqueror's Haki to users"
Yes and he used Silver's Rayleigh to teach Conqueror's Haki not just to Luffy but to readers as well. We understand what Conqueror's Haki is now through Silvers Rayleigh
"Shanks has the best feats of CoC"
Well I say that is debatable at best. I don't know how useful Shanks going all out with his CoC and giving an Admiral a vibration at best is in combat, but we literally haven't seen Mihawk go all out with his Haki, Rayleigh go all out with his Haki, Bajrang Gun, Roger vs Whitebeard etc was showing more CoC Potency.
There are many different aspects of CoC and just one feat doesn't shown anything.
How do you know Rayleigh can't do that?
Roger can't do that?
Conclusion
I think all and all Shanks has a very strong Haki, probably top 5 of all time but I don't think he has the strongest Haki
I think at least following people have stronger CoC than him
-Roger
-Xebec
-Rayleigh
-Mihawk
Few other people who potentially surpass him are Dragon, Garp, Ryuma and Joy Boy
@Gol D. Roger
@TheAncientCenturion
@Jiihad
@Natalija
@AL sama
@Pantheos
@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
@SakazOuki
@MarineHQ
@silverfire
@Sentinel
@Garp the Fist
@Fenaker
@Gensui Sazid
@HA001
@ConquistadoR
@Shanal
Etc
Post automatically merged:
Sorry forgot to tag Sanji fans
@Kurozumi Chrono
@kurwa
@SkySanji
@MonsterZoro
@Vinsmoke D. Zolo
Idk who else
That being said tho, my opinion about Shanks' powerlevel:
- if Shanks will be Luffy's arc final opponent, i don't think he will be weaker than Kaidou at all.
- But if Shanks will be other's final opponent instead of Luffy, i think his actual powerlevel will not be as high as my current view of his hype. I can even consider Shanks to be below Mihawk depending on the Shanks' and Mihawk's fighting placement in the story.
Your being way too generous to that bum. You should've gone several steps further and called him just a rat of the WG. Seriously, what has this bum accomplished besides something even buggy managed. The whole yonko title is a joke at this point. It's something anyone can just stumbled into, but it's the only title that bum has. He is not the worlds strongest swordsmen despite being a swordsmen himself, and his only merit according to the WG is his crew.
Shanks is just an obsolete tool that oda used to kick-start Goofy's pirate career. He no longer has any role to play in the story beyond a sentimental one.
His fans are desperate to find him a role with all their yapping about CoC, but, seriously, he is done.
Shanks is just an obsolete tool that oda used to kick-start Goofy's pirate career. He no longer has any role to play in the story beyond a sentimental one.
His fans are desperate to find him a role with all their yapping about CoC, but, seriously, he is done.
If it's just CoC and CoA? Then it should be CoC, given what we currently know.
But a clash like that is highly unlikely, as it would most likely be a mixture of both, on each side, given that two can be combined. Then you also probably have to factor in physical strength as well.
Yamato can clash with Kaido's CoC, but in terms of pure damage output, Kaido's CoC far and above eclipses Yamatos. Same thing with Luffy. I don't think that anyone believes that AdCoC Luffy can one shot Boundman, but he can clash with Kaido who could one shot Boundman.
The point is, is that Oda doesn't make any one ability completely unbeatable, or unable to be contended with.
But a clash like that is highly unlikely, as it would most likely be a mixture of both, on each side, given that two can be combined. Then you also probably have to factor in physical strength as well.
Yamato can clash with Kaido's CoC, but in terms of pure damage output, Kaido's CoC far and above eclipses Yamatos. Same thing with Luffy. I don't think that anyone believes that AdCoC Luffy can one shot Boundman, but he can clash with Kaido who could one shot Boundman.
The point is, is that Oda doesn't make any one ability completely unbeatable, or unable to be contended with.
Okay you know how Zoros attack with CoC destroyed kings sword.
What if Mihawk gets Yoru with his maximum Haki output CoA + CoC and Shanks get his sword with maximum Haki output CoA + CoC and they clash their strongest attacks.
What breaks? Yoru or Gryphon?
@Red Admiral
What if Mihawk gets Yoru with his maximum Haki output CoA + CoC and Shanks get his sword with maximum Haki output CoA + CoC and they clash their strongest attacks.
What breaks? Yoru or Gryphon?
@Red Admiral