Break Week Is it time to consider Zoro vs Smoothie /Queen yet?

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
? Nobody is thinking low of them. The F6 are new world captains who can be anything from powerful to knocking Luffy down from a headbutt to being confident in fighting against Queen. There are other allies (Law, Kid, Marco, etc) who I believe are above Luffys own crew right now. And before people think Kaido is their "only" battle, look at where each of those characters are: Not fighting Kaido. Right now its the Scabbards and Minks job to weaken and pretty much lose to Kaido. That doesn't mean everyone will go into fighting kaido "fresh". Not to mention, Marco is also present and can heal everyone.
Do you think that Oda created a character like Zoro to be weaker than others? To waste him on some underlings of underlings?
You think a Shichibukai member like Jinbe will be wasted on those same underlings of underlings? Jinbe, the first son of sea?
Someone shining brighter than Zoro in the samurai arc of all arcs? Is that what you think is Oda's intention?
 
Do you think that Oda created a character like Zoro to be weaker than others? To waste him on some underlings of underlings?
You think a Shichibukai member like Jinbe will be wasted on those same underlings of underlings? Jinbe, the first son of sea?
Someone shining brighter than Zoro in the samurai arc of all arcs? Is that what you think is Oda's intention?
I think you are setting yourself up for massive disappointment. None of the Calamities have been shown to "primarily" use their swords outside of Jack lol.

I do think Zoro, Jinbe, Sanji etc will actually have major moments against the Yonko themselves, but not before their initial fights, whom i dont think are the calamities.

Oda's mindset on this was very clear when he removed half the crew from Dressrosa. Then had Law, Kyros and the SHF take out most of Doflamingo's crew.
 
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I think you are setting yourself up for massive disappointment. None of the Calamities have been shown to "primarily" use their swords outside of Jack lol.

I do think Zoro, Jinbe, Sanji etc will actually have major moments against the Yonko themselves, but not before their initial fights, whom i dont think are the calamities.

Oda's mindset on this was very clear when we removed half the crew from Dressrosa. Then had Law, Kyros and the SHF take out most of Doflamingo's crew.
All the arcs since Punk Hazard have been build-up for Wano
 
All the arcs since Punk Hazard have been build-up for Wano
Not sure what that has to do with my comment. Sanji hasnt gotten a "serious" fight since Thriller Bark.

Luffy struggled againt a monstrously strong Shichibukai and 2 YCs to get to the point hes at now. Im just saying people are going to be disappointed if they think facing calamities is the "only" route Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe can go, especially when the arc has other strong allies outside of Luffy's crew.

Trust me, if they do, I'll be happy. I just dont think there is setup for it. We'll see how this Sanji v. King moment plays out.
 

BangOO🍅

Pepebusi Spammer
Not sure what that has to do with my comment. Sanji hasnt gotten a "serious" fight since Thriller Bark.

Luffy struggled againt a monstrously strong Shichibukai and 2 YCs to get to the point hes at now. Im just saying people are going to be disappointed if they think facing calamities is the "only" route Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe can go, especially when the arc has other strong allies outside of Luffy's crew.

Trust me, if they do, I'll be happy. I just dont think there is setup for it. We'll see how this Sanji v. King moment plays out.
i think this is only exception, because after this arc, i dont see any big arc instead of final arc.
So Zoro,Sanji, Jinbe need a proof to be worthy to be called Yonko Commander after this war.
 

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
Don't speak ill about Zoro's opponent :kriwhat:
Don’t worry, Zoro will treat WsW like T-Bone if they fight. “He’s strong” -> proceeds to one shot and move on with his day
:cheers:

Not sure why, when Law and Kid also exist. Oda had arc allies and SHF members face stronger opponents than some strawhats at DR.
With the way Zoro is being portrayed with the WG captains, I don’t think he’ll be getting the same treatment as Jimbei and Sanji.
 
Don’t worry, Zoro will treat WsW like T-Bone if they fight. “He’s strong” -> proceeds to one shot and move on with his day
:cheers:



With the way Zoro is being portrayed with the WG captains, I don’t think he’ll be getting the same treatment as Jimbei and Sanji.
Its just my thought in the matter. I understand how Oda portrays Zoro considering his actual dream is pretty analagous to Luffy's in a way.


But I also think we aren't at all close to the physical end of this story. There are plenty of future villains to be faced and I think there is still tons of room to grow there. On that note I don't personally see Luffy "actually" surpassing Kaido in terms of being the "strongest" creature.

In fact, I see Kaido going down pretty unfairly to maintain that title. If Luffy beat Kaido solo or at least without some handicap, it trivializes any future battle he has because Kaido is virtually unbeatable in a 1v1. "When a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" is the key dialogue here. Kaido is allegedy unstoppable solo, which is why I think it has to be an "Oars-esque" type fight anyway, and it will allow Luffys fights against Akainu, Shanks or BB to NOT be trivialized, because they aren't the WSC.

So either through BM helping, or Zoro, Marco, Kid, Law, etc all fighting Kaido with Luffy, I think Luffy's crew NEEDS to grow by reasonable means. Fighting the F6 isn't an insult. Whos Who wanted to fight Queen with ZERO fear. I frankly think we have more potentially of getting a better reward out of Jinbe vs. Sasaki due to their potential of knowing each other as fishmen (assuming Sasaki is one). We have yet to see the upper limit of Page One or Drake, so to say those can't be one of Sanji's battles is disingenuous to those characters.


All I'm saying its its not a big deal of Luffy's crew grows from facing F6 members. Many of them will have a hand in fighting Kaido most likely. And some of them will also go on to fighting Blackbeard or Shank's YCs or Akainu's admirals.

That last paragraph is my whole point. People shouldn't be fretting all that much. It allows the crew to grow realistically instead of assuming 3 of Luffys crew have surpassed people that Luffy barely managed to an arc before after 9+ hours of fighting EACH.

Its also why I can see Luffy fighting Jack, Queen or King to show how much he's grown from Katakuri. The battle won't be a 9 hour feat, plus he probably won't solo Kaido (he'll get the final blow for sure and some 1v1 moments) so he's probably merited something prior. Kind of also why I'm hoping there is an Ace, but doubtful now
 

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
Its just my thought in the matter. I understand how Oda portrays Zoro considering his actual dream is pretty analagous to Luffy's in a way.


But I also think we aren't at all close to the physical end of this story. There are plenty of future villains to be faced and I think there is still tons of room to grow there. On that note I don't personally see Luffy "actually" surpassing Kaido in terms of being the "strongest" creature.

In fact, I see Kaido going down pretty unfairly to maintain that title. If Luffy beat Kaido solo or at least without some handicap, it trivializes any future battle he has because Kaido is virtually unbeatable in a 1v1. "When a 1v1, always bet on Kaido" is the key dialogue here. Kaido is allegedy unstoppable solo, which is why I think it has to be an "Oars-esque" type fight anyway, and it will allow Luffys fights against Akainu, Shanks or BB to NOT be trivialized, because they aren't the WSC.

So either through BM helping, or Zoro, Marco, Kid, Law, etc all fighting Kaido with Luffy, I think Luffy's crew NEEDS to grow by reasonable means. Fighting the F6 isn't an insult. Whos Who wanted to fight Queen with ZERO fear. I frankly think we have more potentially of getting a better reward out of Jinbe vs. Sasaki due to their potential of knowing each other as fishmen (assuming Sasaki is one). We have yet to see the upper limit of Page One or Drake, so to say those can't be one of Sanji's battles is disingenuous to those characters.


All I'm saying its its not a big deal of Luffy's crew grows from facing F6 members. Many of them will have a hand in fighting Kaido most likely. And some of them will also go on to fighting Blackbeard or Shank's YCs or Akainu's admirals.

That last paragraph is my whole point. People shouldn't be fretting all that much. It allows the crew to grow realistically instead of assuming 3 of Luffys crew have surpassed people that Luffy barely managed to an arc before after 9+ hours of fighting EACH.

Its also why I can see Luffy fighting Jack, Queen or King to show how much he's grown from Katakuri. The battle won't be a 9 hour feat, plus he probably won't solo Kaido (he'll get the final blow for sure and some 1v1 moments) so he's probably merited something prior. Kind of also why I'm hoping there is an Ace, but doubtful now
My main issue with the whole "X showed Y no fear and wanted to fight him" argument is that it really doesn't mean anything. Zoro was excited to have another go at Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa, what does that mean?

Also, wouldn't Zoro growing from fighting one of the F6 kinda diminish the Scabbards? Zoro being able to tame Enma was a bit of portrayal for Zoro to be above the scabbarrds. He had to train in order to master it, something he stated would make him stronger. After training + an unknown cap, Zoro still grows from characters who are below the Calamities? That also kinda diminishes Mihawk and how harsh his training with Zoro was.

One last thing. Zoro needs to get on the level of the Yonko/Admirals by the end of the series...and the Straw Hats are about to get their third RP. If he still isn't even at WCI Luffy level post Wano, when will he start making gains?
 
My main issue with the whole "X showed Y no fear and wanted to fight him" argument is that it really doesn't mean anything. Zoro was excited to have another go at Fujitora at the end of Dressrosa, what does that mean?

Also, wouldn't Zoro growing from fighting one of the F6 kinda diminish the Scabbards? Zoro being able to tame Enma was a bit of portrayal for Zoro to be above the scabbarrds. He had to train in order to master it, something he stated would make him stronger. After training + an unknown cap, Zoro still grows from characters who are below the Calamities? That also kinda diminishes Mihawk and how harsh his training with Zoro was.

One last thing. Zoro needs to get on the level of the Yonko/Admirals by the end of the series...and the Straw Hats are about to get their third RP. If he still isn't even at WCI Luffy level post Wano, when will he start making gains?
My point was that I dont think this arc is the exact arc Zoro (or Sanji, or Jinbe) are poised to surpass YCs. I dont even think Luffy is going to "surpass" Kaido in a traditional sense. Rememebr, Blackbesrd and Shanks also exist with their YCs. The Admirals exist. The Gorosei (of they are powerful) exist. To me, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe need to show that they are stronger than most NW captains, aka the F6. They have plenty of other opportunities to grow past a YC or even an Admiral. I use Luffy as an analogy because I definitely don't think he will be above a 4.6 billion pirate post-Wano. There will likely be some other factor (oars style teamup, BM handicap, etc) that will probably allow Luffy to win.


Its just my opinion. My belief is that if these guys beat YCs now, it entirely trivializes other YC fights. Kind of like how I dont see Luffy beating Kaido on his own.
 
My point was that I dont think this arc is the exact arc Zoro (or Sanji, or Jinbe) are poised to surpass YCs. I dont even think Luffy is going to "surpass" Kaido in a traditional sense. Rememebr, Blackbesrd and Shanks also exist with their YCs. The Admirals exist. The Gorosei (of they are powerful) exist. To me, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe need to show that they are stronger than most NW captains, aka the F6. They have plenty of other opportunities to grow past a YC or even an Admiral. I use Luffy as an analogy because I definitely don't think he will be above a 4.6 billion pirate post-Wano. There will likely be some other factor (oars style teamup, BM handicap, etc) that will probably allow Luffy to win.


Its just my opinion. My belief is that if these guys beat YCs now, it entirely trivializes other YC fights. Kind of like how I dont see Luffy beating Kaido on his own.
Kaido is going to be tag teamed. It's practically guaranteed since we're told that he's unbeatable 1 vs 1.

Sanji and Zoro are going to beat YC this arc. They have to, or the gap between them and Luffy would expand even more then it already is and that's even after getting a PU each. And that'd break the established M3 beyond repair which I don't see ODA doing.

Sanji and Zoro haven't showed us their TS training results till now, all we've got is some snippets like HM for Sanji and Zoro cutting Pica statue. If not in this war, then when would they show us their full potential?

Jinbei on the other hand is already an established character that we know where he approximately stand powerwise, so it's possible he'dn't get a 1 vs 1 fight. However it's still a possibility too.
 

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
My point was that I dont think this arc is the exact arc Zoro (or Sanji, or Jinbe) are poised to surpass YCs. I dont even think Luffy is going to "surpass" Kaido in a traditional sense. Rememebr, Blackbesrd and Shanks also exist with their YCs. The Admirals exist. The Gorosei (of they are powerful) exist. To me, Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe need to show that they are stronger than most NW captains, aka the F6. They have plenty of other opportunities to grow past a YC or even an Admiral. I use Luffy as an analogy because I definitely don't think he will be above a 4.6 billion pirate post-Wano. There will likely be some other factor (oars style teamup, BM handicap, etc) that will probably allow Luffy to win.


Its just my opinion. My belief is that if these guys beat YCs now, it entirely trivializes other YC fights. Kind of like how I dont see Luffy beating Kaido on his own.
Why are the Worst Gen captains exempt from having to prove themselves against the F6? Zoro and Kidd have been portrayed just about the same since they made it to Onigashima, yet you think he'll take a Calamity. If Zoro and Kidd are in the same range (per their interactions with Apoo and fodder), shouldn't he have to prove himself too?
 
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