Current Events Is One Piece Turning Into Naruto? Does Conqueror’s Haki Ruin Zoro?

Does Being Born A Conqueror Undermine All of Zoro’s Hard Work?


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Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
So, let me explain what I mean by that.

When Naruto starts out, it was a series about an untalented child working hard to attain an impossible dream, “to become a Hokage.”

Naruto is consistently portrayed as Un-talented, dumb, and a poor ninja overall, but it was his strong desire to work hard and become a great Ninja that set him apart from talented Ninja like Neji and Sasuke.

Fast-forward some 700 Chapters, and we find out that Naruto is a literal god-incarnate, who’s entire family lineage is essentially gods and kings inbreeding with each other to create Naruto, a child of prophecy and literal diety in human form.

Naruto went from an admirable character, an untalented ninja working as hard as he could, to becoming a god, handpicked by destiny for greatness, and all of his hard-work went down the shitter as a result.

With the reveal that Zoro has Conqueror’s Haki, and the implication that the most powerful people in the world also have this form of CoC, is One Piece heading down a similar path?

For a lot of people, Luffy’s character went down the toilet when it was revealed that he was related to Garp and Dragon. Luffy was changed from just a fun-loving kid who wanted to go on an adventure, to becoming a genetically stacked pirate Jesus who was destined to reach pirate king levels of strength even if he spent most of his time wacking off on the Sunny.

With Zoro now having Conqueror’s Haki, it appears that Oda intends to treat him the same way. Zoro was always different from Luffy, he actually spent time training while Luffy was goofing off. But no longer is Zoro just a really hardworking guy, destined to succeed because of how much he wants his ambition and works to attain it, but now Zoro is genetically a King. It’s not enough to have Zoro succeed in the New World because he works really hard, Oda had to make him a King by lineage?

More lineage bullshit has been foreshadowed by the “lineage factor” nonsense. I’m not sure why the Japanese think that it makes characters interesting to give them some “legendary lineage”, it actually devalues all of the trials they’ve overcome in the past. Zoro is just genetically destined to overcome all of the genetically flawed opponents he’s come across no matter what. The only trials he can’t overcome seemingly, are other genetically chosen super-freaks like Kaido.

The message Oda is sending with this is becoming clear: want to succeed in life? Well, you’d better hope you were chosen by destiny at birth, or you pretty much have no chance at ever accomplishing something great. I’d like to meet an OP top tier who achieved their status despite not being born a god-king.

This philosophy is garbage and I honestly don’t know why Oda couldn’t just leave Zoro be, but hey, Oda was on a roll at ruining everything about OP in Wano, so I guess it was inevitable that Zoro would be too. Not like most of us didn’t see this shit coming lol.

Anyway, discuss: is Zoro ruined now? Has all of his hard work gone down the toilet since he is genetically chosen to succeed? Share your thoughts.

@TheAncientCenturion @comrade @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @ShishioIsBack @Tekashi69420 @MarineHQ62 @Sentinel @playa4321 @HA001 @Light D Lamperouge
 
#2
Yes and no I guess. You can be born with a strong spirit which 1 in a million have (CoC), which Chinjao and Rayleigh call common among those who made a name for themselves. With some being especially strong. But still having to work hard and fighting a lot of hard battles.

Though we know Luffy is the next Joyboy, which however doesn't seem to be a power level guy.

As long as Luffy EOS still needs no less than high diff for current top dogs or Whitebeard and Roger, it's fine. But if they start to pull out continent busting attacks that would neg diff Yonko/admirals, it would become ridiculous.
 
#5
People should stop taking manga seriously. I mean this is shonen series , its obvious MC and his cast will be special. Luffy, Zoro will be destined for greatness that was obvious from chapter 1.

I get the newer audience like yourself want something epic like Dark knight, Inception themed but people need to give it a rest and hold back in the end the manga caters to teenage audience.

I probably do think some of us grown out of this genre. Try Kingdom , Berserk , Vagabond if you truly want to enjoy art.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#6
It won't as long as Joy boy or Ryuma doesn't appear in Luffy/Zoro's inner world and hand them free power-ups so they can solo Onigashima sized demons.
I mean, Luffy and Zoro were already born God-Kings, what does it matter what specific kings they relate to? Their success was handed to them genetically at birth.

If Zoro is related to Ryuma though, that will just be Oda pissing on Zoro’s grave tbh
 

Doggo

Talent is something you make bloom.
#7
So, let me explain what I mean by that.

When Naruto starts out, it was a series about an untalented child working hard to attain an impossible dream, “to become a Hokage.”

Naruto is consistently portrayed as Un-talented, dumb, and a poor ninja overall, but it was his strong desire to work hard and become a great Ninja that set him apart from talented Ninja like Neji and Sasuke.

Fast-forward some 700 Chapters, and we find out that Naruto is a literal god-incarnate, who’s entire family lineage is essentially gods and kings inbreeding with each other to create Naruto, a child of prophecy and literal diety in human form.

Naruto went from an admirable character, an untalented ninja working as hard as he could, to becoming a god, handpicked by destiny for greatness, and all of his hard-work went down the shitter as a result.

With the reveal that Zoro has Conqueror’s Haki, and the implication that the most powerful people in the world also have this form of CoC, is One Piece heading down a similar path?

For a lot of people, Luffy’s character went down the toilet when it was revealed that he was related to Garp and Dragon. Luffy was changed from just a fun-loving kid who wanted to go on an adventure, to becoming a genetically stacked pirate Jesus who was destined to reach pirate king levels of strength even if he spent most of his time wacking off on the Sunny.

With Zoro now having Conqueror’s Haki, it appears that Oda intends to treat him the same way. Zoro was always different from Luffy, he actually spent time training while Luffy was goofing off. But no longer is Zoro just a really hardworking guy, destined to succeed because of how much he wants his ambition and works to attain it, but now Zoro is genetically a King. It’s not enough to have Zoro succeed in the New World because he works really hard, Oda had to make him a King by lineage?

More lineage bullshit has been foreshadowed by the “lineage factor” nonsense. I’m not sure why the Japanese think that it makes characters interesting to give them some “legendary lineage”, it actually devalues all of the trials they’ve overcome in the past. Zoro is just genetically destined to overcome all of the genetically flawed opponents he’s come across no matter what. The only trials he can’t overcome seemingly, are other genetically chosen super-freaks like Kaido.

The message Oda is sending with this is becoming clear: want to succeed in life? Well, you’d better hope you were chosen by destiny at birth, or you pretty much have no chance at ever accomplishing something great. I’d like to meet an OP top tier who achieved their status despite not being born a god-king.

This philosophy is garbage and I honestly don’t know why Oda couldn’t just leave Zoro be, but hey, Oda was on a roll at ruining everything about OP in Wano, so I guess it was inevitable that Zoro would be too. Not like most of us didn’t see this shit coming lol.

Anyway, discuss: is Zoro ruined now? Has all of his hard work gone down the toilet since he is genetically chosen to succeed? Share your thoughts.

@TheAncientCenturion @comrade @Blackbeard @Owl Ki @ShishioIsBack @Tekashi69420 @MarineHQ62 @Sentinel @playa4321 @HA001 @Light D Lamperouge
Your thread summarize quite well why I would NEVER have given Zoro CoC.
Bear in mind that I would not change his power or dream or whatever. CoC is too much of a "chosen one" thing.
Zoro was the child that made a promise to his friend, that one day, one of them would become the greatest swordsman. His friend died, so it was up to him to reach that goal.
Now...it leaves me wondering if he could actually achieve it without getting lucky of having CoC.
It's completely different vibe from CoA or CoO, which are available for everyone. Anyone can develop them, cultivate them, get stronger and all that. But not all can get CoC.
Lame as fuck for the theme of the character.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#9
@Doggo

It’s literally that simple, just don’t give Zoro conqueror’s Haki lol. His character would’ve been fine as is. On that note:

People should stop taking manga seriously. I mean this is shonen series , its obvious MC and his cast will be special. Luffy, Zoro will be destined for greatness that was obvious from chapter 1.

I get the newer audience like yourself want something epic like Dark knight, Inception themed but people need to give it a rest and hold back in the end the manga caters to teenage audience.

I probably do think some of us grown out of this genre. Try Kingdom , Berserk , Vagabond if you truly want to enjoy art.
You’re acting like this is a complex math equation that is not possible to solve lol. This stuff is pretty simple:

Zoro without CoC: Great character!

Zoro with CoC: Well, everything great about him is now in question lol.

But I’ll let you continue believing that putting destructive messaging in a series targeted at children is fine lol.
 
#10
@Doggo

It’s literally that simple, just don’t give Zoro conqueror’s Haki lol. His character would’ve been fine as is. On that note:



You’re acting like this is a complex math equation that is not possible to solve lol. This stuff is pretty simple:

Zoro without CoC: Great character!

Zoro with CoC: Well, everything great about him is now in question lol.

But I’ll let you continue believing that putting destructive messaging in a series targeted at children is fine lol.
Destructive messaging when Attack on Titan exists?
Post automatically merged:

Also, having great heritage means nothing without working your ass off. There are several other people who are born with greatness but simply...don't. see, the Celestial Dragons and Doflamingo.
Post automatically merged:

See Law who climbed up from a literal mountain of corpses. And Kidd who came from God knows where with CoO.
 

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
#12
I don’t have much of a problem with chosen one narratives, I’ve read a lot of fantasy. And One Piece has clearly been a chosen one story for a long time. Luffy doing the exact same thing as Roger, mysterious man that Smoker is frightened of saving him, inherited will, Crocus saying that they are the people that Roger was waiting for, Kureha saying that Roger was actually a D, Robin saving Luffy because he was a D. That’s all stuff that happened in the first 200 chapters. It’s relatively common for heroic ones to have some sort of legendary family background- Aragorn/kings of Numenor, John Snow/the Targaryens (really every character of ASOIAF comes from a great family), Harry Potter/the Peverells, Fitz/the Farseers, Rand/the Aiel and his mother, so on, so forth. Even our much loved Berserk, it’s turned around by making the bad guy the chosen one, but Griffith was engineered to do what he did by fate. Mushashi’s father in Vagabond was a former sword saint. So on, so forth.

And unlike Naruto, it was never meant to be a big deal that Luffy or Zoro were some sort of failure. Quite the opposite, actually, consistently throuhgout the series they’ve been noted to be extraordinary by near enough everyone they meet. They’ve had moments of loss, (the Saobody to Marineford stretch, Zoro vs Kuina and Mihawk, a couple of “round one” defeats) but it’s not like there’s ever been much of a focus on them being told they were talentless wretches like the first half of Naruto was all about.

CoC is a bit more troublesome. It looks very much like you just can’t be the greatest in the world without it. But the thing is, CoC is willpower, and the people at the top of their field in the real world are born with a lot of willpower and natural talent. You need both to be at the best in your field. The alternate future stuff Oda has drawn does tell us that there could have been a path forward where Luffy and Zoro (and Ace), despite being born with CoC, earn up hopeless scumbags, so it’s not like they could have skated through life and ended up where they are without putting in any work. Ultimately it’s a feel-good story for young boys, so of course the heroes will overcome there obstacles, reach the top and we won’t see that. Deaths like Ace’s where he never achieves his full potential, despite having CoC, are going ti be the exception.

Lineage Factor I don’t think has anything to do with this, it’s just what the One Piece world calls DNA. Vegapunk discovered what it is, so him and Judge have done experiments seeing if they can use the changes of DNA a DF makes and replicate the effects.
 
#14
@Doggo

It’s literally that simple, just don’t give Zoro conqueror’s Haki lol. His character would’ve been fine as is. On that note:



You’re acting like this is a complex math equation that is not possible to solve lol. This stuff is pretty simple:

Zoro without CoC: Great character!

Zoro with CoC: Well, everything great about him is now in question lol.

But I’ll let you continue believing that putting destructive messaging in a series targeted at children is fine lol.
That is likely they will be new kings , Zoro was always destined for greatness and also he needs to prove samurais he is reincarnation of legendary Ryuma.
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
#15
It's ok in my opinion.

CoC was introduced many years ago and the notion of Asura itself probably constituting CoC sticks properly with the notion he possessed at least CoO during pre TS, but more probably CoA as well, since Koushiro had introduced him to its explanation despite not labeling it as CoA, and he possessed BOAT other than the powerful capability to spot objects moving without looking at them despite hearing them.
 
#18
That is one of the reasons I despise Naruto. Anyway are we sure coc is related to blessed bloodlines and the likes? Shouldn't it be related to the will of the user? Afterall even people like Chinjao, Kidd, Doffy (who is a cd but I don't think we will have coc Carlos or other scrub celestial dragons) have it. To be honest I'm expecting Coby to unlock it too and at that moment it will be clear it is not related to bloodlines (even BM, her parents abandoned her cause she was a monster since she was a child and despite her parents being nothing exceptional she unlocked it).
 
#20
CoC is the ability that only certain people have. People with King's qualities, ambition, intimidation.
Zoro fits in all those categories. If after 1010 you didn't understand this about Zoro, then i don't expect you to understand if Zoro is great or no.

Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, WB didn't have any lineage but they are surreal and have COC, why it's now an issue for Zoro ? You give the impression to be triggered af lol.
 
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