Character Discussion Is Yamato a male or female?
- Thread starter Heinrich
- Start date
Nah, no dissociative disorder fits Yamato because he never dissociates. Whenever he's "feeling Oden" he stays perfectly aware of his "Yamato, son of Kaidou's" identity as he explicitly stated. Conscious perception of oneself is never interrupted, never seems to inform of anything remotely similar to being an outside observer (which is what despersonalization requires), nor experiences episodes of dissociative amnesia nor doubts his own identity but adds an additional layer to it; and more importantly, this whole "Oden persona" isn't causing Yamato significantly clinic distress nor causing him functioning deterioration.
As a psychologist I know it's fun to open whatever book or check some Hollywood movie and turn disorders into character templates, but it's never as easy as "this person identifies as another one, therefore split personality"; that's Sheldon Cooper's Asperger level of bullshit, plain and simple. I've seen dissociative patients and they're nothing like Yamato.
The lecture I get from Yamato's character is the same as others have pointed out: I just believe he turned Oden into an embodiment of freedom and took it to its fullest, hence why his train of thought was "since Oden was a man, I will become a man". But, as I said, it isn't a dissociation from his original self but just a layer to it. This doesn't mean that, on top of it, Yamato couldn't identify as a man overall too, but for now I just believe he took the Oden persona, everybody accepted it (for one reason or another; Luffy just goes along it while Kaidou made Yamato took full responsability of it, for the better or the worse), and this bathroom situation is just what a person who became a man because Oden was a man would logically do.
Luffy showed some opposition to Yamato addresing himself as Oden back when they first met, so maybe he will require him to drop the impersonation in order to join. If Yamato keeps seeing himself as a man after that and his treatment is similar to that of Kiku and Morley (who are undeniably trans), then I will see Yamato as trans too.
By the way, I find it hilarious that people are so reactionary to Yamato sharing a bath with the guys. It's just nudity, guys; nothing bad will happen to you if you share a bath with other naked people, whatever sex they are.
I think my previous answer to Solis addressed this too. Yamato being trans or not will end up depending on whether the treatment Oda chooses after he drops the Oden roleplay is like that of Kiku's or not.
Exactly! I mean, just imagine it: "Yeah, I truly want to belong to a collective with some of the highest suicide rates, twice the chance of being unemployed, four times more likely of suffering violence, and so on". Freaking absurd.
The "it's just a choice" argument is common when discussing these issues because it frees people from taking action and reduces the moral discomfort they experience. "They just chose it, it's up to them to solve it, therefore has nothing to do with me and I don't have to get involved". It's the exact same attribution bias that helps people to deal with cognitive dissonance regarding drug addiction, homelessness and pretty much any "uncomfortable" social issue.
In other words: when you believe it's their choice it's easy for you to look away.
Not towards me but this issue.
And again, what is a man?
Do you have black-defining traits just like trans people share defining traits from the gender they identify as? Do you have an actual perception of yourself as a black person like trans people do, or it's just a mocking situation because you obviously don't identify as black nor such identification and the subsequent discrepancies cause you daily distress?
Same as above.
I'm no expert, first and foremost. But I know better than your vague mumbling of concepts, it seems; for example, why do you make a distinction between "biology" and "mental thing"? Why do you assume that being "a woman/man at heart" doesn't have a biological correlate? How do you address the fact that our body is plastic and therefore can be altered by our environment? Since it has been observed that gender dimorphism can also be traced to brain structures and such structures seem to influence gender identity in spite of other "biological traits" such as genitalia, what should we priorize to establish the gender of a person? A person with male-congruent brain structures but XX chromosome and a person with female-congruent brain structures but XY chromosome are each what, a man, a woman, something undefined...? How do we address a person who isn't XX nor XY, which there are millions of? And a person with both genitalia or none?
I think you are starting to understand how complex this issue is, hence why you weren't able to tell me what defines manhood/womanhood. I'll make it easier: what must be "magically changed" for a person to transition from one sex/gender/whatever you call it to the other?
As a psychologist I know it's fun to open whatever book or check some Hollywood movie and turn disorders into character templates, but it's never as easy as "this person identifies as another one, therefore split personality"; that's Sheldon Cooper's Asperger level of bullshit, plain and simple. I've seen dissociative patients and they're nothing like Yamato.
The lecture I get from Yamato's character is the same as others have pointed out: I just believe he turned Oden into an embodiment of freedom and took it to its fullest, hence why his train of thought was "since Oden was a man, I will become a man". But, as I said, it isn't a dissociation from his original self but just a layer to it. This doesn't mean that, on top of it, Yamato couldn't identify as a man overall too, but for now I just believe he took the Oden persona, everybody accepted it (for one reason or another; Luffy just goes along it while Kaidou made Yamato took full responsability of it, for the better or the worse), and this bathroom situation is just what a person who became a man because Oden was a man would logically do.
Luffy showed some opposition to Yamato addresing himself as Oden back when they first met, so maybe he will require him to drop the impersonation in order to join. If Yamato keeps seeing himself as a man after that and his treatment is similar to that of Kiku and Morley (who are undeniably trans), then I will see Yamato as trans too.
By the way, I find it hilarious that people are so reactionary to Yamato sharing a bath with the guys. It's just nudity, guys; nothing bad will happen to you if you share a bath with other naked people, whatever sex they are.
I think my previous answer to Solis addressed this too. Yamato being trans or not will end up depending on whether the treatment Oda chooses after he drops the Oden roleplay is like that of Kiku's or not.
This!!!
If only it were so easy.
How many people do you think would rather want to be cis gender and straight so they can be "normal".
Being trans or gay or lesbian or whatever is NOT a choice. It's how the person IS, not what they want to be.
If only it were so easy.
How many people do you think would rather want to be cis gender and straight so they can be "normal".Being trans or gay or lesbian or whatever is NOT a choice. It's how the person IS, not what they want to be.
The "it's just a choice" argument is common when discussing these issues because it frees people from taking action and reduces the moral discomfort they experience. "They just chose it, it's up to them to solve it, therefore has nothing to do with me and I don't have to get involved". It's the exact same attribution bias that helps people to deal with cognitive dissonance regarding drug addiction, homelessness and pretty much any "uncomfortable" social issue.
In other words: when you believe it's their choice it's easy for you to look away.
Not towards me but this issue.
And again, what is a man?
Do you have black-defining traits just like trans people share defining traits from the gender they identify as? Do you have an actual perception of yourself as a black person like trans people do, or it's just a mocking situation because you obviously don't identify as black nor such identification and the subsequent discrepancies cause you daily distress?
Same as above.
I'm no expert, first and foremost. But I know better than your vague mumbling of concepts, it seems; for example, why do you make a distinction between "biology" and "mental thing"? Why do you assume that being "a woman/man at heart" doesn't have a biological correlate? How do you address the fact that our body is plastic and therefore can be altered by our environment? Since it has been observed that gender dimorphism can also be traced to brain structures and such structures seem to influence gender identity in spite of other "biological traits" such as genitalia, what should we priorize to establish the gender of a person? A person with male-congruent brain structures but XX chromosome and a person with female-congruent brain structures but XY chromosome are each what, a man, a woman, something undefined...? How do we address a person who isn't XX nor XY, which there are millions of? And a person with both genitalia or none?
I think you are starting to understand how complex this issue is, hence why you weren't able to tell me what defines manhood/womanhood. I'll make it easier: what must be "magically changed" for a person to transition from one sex/gender/whatever you call it to the other?
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Millions of people exist who aren't XX nor XY. Reproductive organs can vary greatly between individuals. Different level of hormones have been traced to play a role, same for dimorphic brain structures. Plus how environment can indeed affect our "physical body" because of its high plasticity.
This isn't a matter of "social sciences", which of course also play a role. I'm tired of the "pretty basic biology" idiocy because biology never is basic, it's complex as hell, it's far from fully understood and as I mentioned the trans field has been researched for over a century by experts on various areas only for nobodies from a forum to stick to kindergarden biology that most of the time was inaccurate if not plainly wrong.
This isn't a matter of "social sciences", which of course also play a role. I'm tired of the "pretty basic biology" idiocy because biology never is basic, it's complex as hell, it's far from fully understood and as I mentioned the trans field has been researched for over a century by experts on various areas only for nobodies from a forum to stick to kindergarden biology that most of the time was inaccurate if not plainly wrong.
Those are anomalies and imperfections like extra toes and fingers. It does not mean that there's sex identifications for every difference. Sex biology is as basic as the birds and the bees and has existed since the dawn of humans.
Transvestite studies was researched in the 1800s, early 1900s. Transgender field is fairly new, created in the 1960s by social scientists, and the definitions keep changing.
Transvestite studies was researched in the 1800s, early 1900s. Transgender field is fairly new, created in the 1960s by social scientists, and the definitions keep changing.
This has nothing to do with mockery. It's a normal question and it doesn't matter if i identify as one myself for real or not, it's a hypothetical question...you love taking every single word literaly huh?
So can someone identify as Black even tho they are clearly White?
Someone with male chromosomes and a ding dong who can reproduce.
And don't come up again with ''there are millions who are not XX or XY'' - they are the minority and not the average or ''norm'' if you wanna call it like that.
There are exceptions to everything.
There are alot of anomalies, but that doesn't mean every single difference changes sex or gender.
You can be a woman with high testosterone, that doesn't mean you are a man.
So can someone identify as Black even tho they are clearly White?
Someone with male chromosomes and a ding dong who can reproduce.
And don't come up again with ''there are millions who are not XX or XY'' - they are the minority and not the average or ''norm'' if you wanna call it like that.
There are exceptions to everything.
There are alot of anomalies, but that doesn't mean every single difference changes sex or gender.
You can be a woman with high testosterone, that doesn't mean you are a man.
Look, as a scientist myself I have to stop you here.
You're vastly overstating the overall importance of the topic.
About 0,2% of the overall population don't fit into the very basic biological male-female classification (which we call intersexual people).
99,8% of the overall population can be biologically identified simply by looking under their pants (phrasing it drastically).
Even if you look at the percentage that defines itself as "man" or "woman", while being the opposite biologically (trans-people), we're still at a rate below 1% that doesn't fit the standard biological factors to their preferred gender.
So "basic biology", which you somehow seem to dislike, perfectly describes more than 99% of all cases, which is actually a sensational number for us scientists.
You're vastly overstating the overall importance of the topic.
About 0,2% of the overall population don't fit into the very basic biological male-female classification (which we call intersexual people).
99,8% of the overall population can be biologically identified simply by looking under their pants (phrasing it drastically).
Even if you look at the percentage that defines itself as "man" or "woman", while being the opposite biologically (trans-people), we're still at a rate below 1% that doesn't fit the standard biological factors to their preferred gender.
So "basic biology", which you somehow seem to dislike, perfectly describes more than 99% of all cases, which is actually a sensational number for us scientists.
And that's the fundamental issue; if you want to claim "I feel therefore I am", then fine you can have that. But the denial of fundamental scientific realities, like the fact that humans are a dimorphic species; the differences being easily identifiable and have actual bearing on how said species function in society.....this is just...…nonsensical. If scientists followed exceptions over rules then no medicine would be allowed on shelves and our science books would be a bunch of bolded question marks. The fact that ones self prescribed pronouns are now overruling freedom of speech (Canada Bill C-16 for example) is a step backwards, shouldn't people be allowed to express their opinions openly and freely in a space where they don't feel like they need to walk on egg shells to satisfy an extreme minorities wishes. But no, I have to accept that there are 15 different genders because you read about Klinefelter Syndrome and thought that rules must bend to anomalies.
Male/Female are biological SEX terms.
If you believe she thinks she is a transman that is a GENDER term, so you'd say she is a "man" if you are an extreme idealouge or "transman" if you are neutral, and "woman" if you are hardcore on the other side.
I don't believe she thinks she is a transman so calling her woman is neutral for me.
You have overstated it by a factor of 10. It's 0.02%.
Ideologues have increased the definition of what was widely accepted as intersex to muddy the waters.
If you believe she thinks she is a transman that is a GENDER term, so you'd say she is a "man" if you are an extreme idealouge or "transman" if you are neutral, and "woman" if you are hardcore on the other side.
I don't believe she thinks she is a transman so calling her woman is neutral for me.
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You have overstated it by a factor of 10. It's 0.02%.
Ideologues have increased the definition of what was widely accepted as intersex to muddy the waters.
