Versus Battle Juubito takes a One Piece Gauntlet

[Philosoraptor]

I think One Piece speed is a bit inconsistent. Lightspeed would be able to travel around the globe 7 times within a second. Yet, for example, when Kizaru fired his Yasakani no Magatama from mid range against Whitebeard, Whitebeard was able to comment on it, saying how bright it is, which would be physically impossible, unless Whitebeard speaks like 10 times the speed of light. We had Zoro dodge a light beam from close range pre TS, we had Sentomaru simply outrun Yasakani no Magatama, etc. Even Law's submarine avoided a barrage of lightbeams swimming around them, and I doubt a submarine travels faster than lightspeed under water.

So Oda doesn't really seem to be consistent with speed. In Naruto on the other hand, Kishimoto paid attention to making it realistic, with A being seen to outspeed an Amaterasu that in slowmo spawned instantly before him, not even travelling in the first place.

So I think it's less that random OP characters run around at lightspeed, but that Oda doesn't take it serious.

We really can't justify the fictional realm. We simply still have to accept statements around the context. If the author intended that we view something moving at light speed then we simply have to accept that there is another spectrum beyond it as well in his world.

Whatever the case shouldn't you at the very least should accept that their speed department is matching 8G-Guy? At least for Shanks, Kaido, Mihawk, and Luffy? While Linlin's flight speed should keep up with Juubito?

 

[NikaInParis]

I pointed out how Whitebeard could have an inner monologue while Kizaru fired light particles from mid range, which goes to show that lightspeed isn't supposed to be realistic or literal, as that light would've circled around the globe 7 times before Whitebeard would've ended his speech.

So my point just is, Oda isn't really consistent with it, hence submarines under water can turn circles around lightbeams and dodge them.

Talking is a free action in almost every medium. Characters will have whole monologues in what is supposed to be 5 seconds

 

[SkySanji]

Only Kizaru is stated to move at lightspeed. Fodder characters and even submarines underwater have been shown to outspeed light. So yeah, it's up to the fandom to decide how strict they are with the rules of multiverse battles.

Wrong, Niji is also stated to move at the speed of light in his vivre card and the attack is literally called Lightspeed Blade: Henry Blazer

Kuma is stated to repel things at the speed of light

Pacifista are stated to have Kizaru's lightspeed lasers

One Piece just dunks on Naruto in speed like Naruto dunks on One Piece in power, it is what it is, no use coping about it.

 

[comrade]

@Philosoraptor @SkySanji

The movement of Haku between his mirrors, which was depicted as instantaneous in the Manga, was described as being literally as fast as the speed of light in the Databook (Rin no Sho).

Spoiler

Which makes sense, because it is basically his reflection travelling between the mirrors.

Yet Sasuke, immediately after unlocking his 2-Tomoe Sharingan and having a speed stat of 3/5 according to the official Databook at that time, was able to grasp and react to Haku's speed.

There you have it guys, 2 Tomoe 3/5 speed pt.1 Genin able to keep up to lightspeed.

Let's forget about inconsistency, we have the official data confirming it.



It doesn't stop there of course. The double Lariat of A and B were said to be "almost lightspeed" according to the Databook.

Spoiler

Now Minato could react and dodge A's max speed while Obito had no problem tagging Minato.

We also have light-based attacks that were dodged by characters (light = lightspeed).

Spoiler

We also have attacks used by Madara confirmed to be light speed by the Databook (and dodged by Naruto point blank).

Spoiler

Don't get me wrong though, you could throw away everything bar the first example of genin Sasuke with a speed of 3/5 and a 2-Tomoe Sharingan reacting to light speed Haku, since this is already enough.

Now explain to me again how Naruto characters, especially Juubito who could easily tag the teleportation of Minato, would be overwhelmed by the speed of One Piece characters.

 

[SkySanji]

@Philosoraptor @SkySanji

The movement of Haku between his mirrors, which was depicted as instantaneous in the Manga, was described as being literally as fast as the speed of light in the Databook (Rin no Sho).

Spoiler

Which makes sense, because it is basically his reflection travelling between the mirrors.

Yet Sasuke, immediately after unlocking his 2-Tomoe Sharingan and having a speed stat of 3/5 according to the official Databook at that time, was able to grasp and react to Haku's speed.

There you have it guys, 2 Tomoe 3/5 speed pt.1 Genin able to keep up to lightspeed.

Let's forget about inconsistency, we have the official data confirming it.



It doesn't stop there of course. The double Lariat of A and B were said to be "almost lightspeed" according to the Databook.

Spoiler

Now Minato could react and dodge A's max speed while Obito had no problem tagging Minato.

We also have light-based attacks that were dodged by characters (light = lightspeed).

Spoiler

We also have attacks used by Madara confirmed to be light speed by the Databook (and dodged by Naruto point blank).

Spoiler

Don't get me wrong though, you could throw away everything bar the first example of genin Sasuke with a speed of 3/5 and a 2-Tomoe Sharingan reacting to light speed Haku, since this is already enough.

Now explain to me again how Naruto characters, especially Juubito who could easily tag the teleportation of Minato, would be overwhelmed by the speed of One Piece characters.

The problem is that the Naruto manga has multiple statements stating both that evading lightning is impossible because of how fast it is and that moving at lightspeed is impossible because it'll destroy the body, both of which place hard caps on the verses speed, at least up to half-way through the War Arc anyway.

One Piece has no such caps, nowhere is it ever said a character can't be that fast or that it's impossible to react to such speeds, so unlike the small inconsistencies that you think exist in One Piece when it comes to speed, the Naruto manga has complete contradictions between the manga and databooks.

And besides, everything you provided is solely from the databooks which are skeptical at best, Kizaru, Kuma and Niji have proof of moving/attacking at lightspeed directly from the manga, and in fact Kizaru has even shown accelerating beyond lightspeed in the manga.

The only Naruto characters that have light level speed or above are guys like Ten Tails Madara and people on or above his general level like Naruto, Sasuke, Hagoromo, Kaguya etc, but on average, One Piece is considerably faster than Naruto because they have mid/high tiers able to react to those speeds, only the god tiers of Naruto can do so.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Don't get me wrong though, you could throw away everything bar the first example of genin Sasuke with a speed of 3/5 and a 2-Tomoe Sharingan reacting to light speed Haku, since this is already enough.

Sky Sanji already addressed most of your points so I'll address this one here.

With Haku's case I have 0 problems of his ability moving through mirrors at light speed. The exception being where Haku's own statement was also clear that this ability takes a load amount of chakra, chapter 27. It was already implying that he was already slowing down because of it.

So my take is at his peak stamina Haku can move through his ice mirrors at such speeds. And the speeds slows down by attrition due to chakra constraints.

Sasuke's reaction level becomes inconclusive.

Now explain to me again how Naruto characters, especially Juubito who could easily tag the teleportation of Minato, would be overwhelmed by the speed of One Piece characters.

Obito wasn't able to deal with instantaneous teleports. What he reacted to from Minato was his attack speed.

2. I do not expect OP characters to run in circles with Obito, bar maybe Nika Luffy? But at the very least have already demonstrated speeds to where even seeing a few seconds to the future will be a problem reacting to. Or relative speeds that enables them to keep up, where them dishing out their attacks are going to be a huge problem.

 

[Steven]

The movement of Haku between his mirrors, which was depicted as instantaneous in the Manga, was described as being literally as fast as the speed of light in the Databook (Rin no Sho).

Which makes sense, because it is basically his reflection travelling between the mirrors.

Yet Sasuke, immediately after unlocking his 2-Tomoe Sharingan and having a speed stat of 3/5 according to the official Databook at that time, was able to grasp and react to Haku's speed.

"Its impossible to see attacks send out from this literal light speed movement"

Both Sasuke and Naruto were getting blitzed hard, with Haku even stating he sees them moving in slow motion.
A combination of Haku running out of Chakra and Sasuke using his Sharingan allows him to react

No scale at all

The double Lariat of A and B were said to be "almost lightspeed" according to the Databook.

Almost LS starts at 1% LS.That mach 8740.Not even close to be LS

We also have light-based attacks that were dodged by characters (light = lightspeed).

Lasers don't bent lol.No real Light at all

We also have attacks used by Madara confirmed to be light speed by the Databook (and dodged by Naruto point blank).

"Making it impossible for the enemy to evade even one swing".Seems like you ignore that for no reason

That being said Naruto dodged Madaras neckswing

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

One Piece has no such caps, nowhere is it ever said a character can't be that fast or that it's impossible to react to such speeds, so unlike the small inconsistencies that you think exist in One Piece when it comes to speed, the Naruto manga has complete contradictions between the manga and databooks.

Luffy in fucking wano flat out stated he couldn't catch up to a horse on foot when the little girl who's devil fruit was riding one.

Don't even bother trying this angle.
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Lasers don't bent lol.No real Light at all

Lasers don't explode, not real light at all.

 

[Steven]

Sanji reacted and blocked Kizarus laser point blank

Luffy point blank dodged Kizarus laser

 

[SkySanji]

Luffy in fucking wano flat out stated he couldn't catch up to a horse on foot when the little girl who's devil fruit was riding one.

Don't even bother trying this angle.

Yeah antifeats exist in every manga bud, not just One Piece, Goku was injured by bullets, Saitama had his face fucked up by a cat, etc the list goes on.

 

[Steven]

Lasers don't explode, not real light at all.

Lasers explode:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/748895/laser-induced-explosion-detonation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_explosion

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19738780/

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1076937

The problem is; we as humans haven't made an energy weapon (yet) with enough power to fire lasers that go boom boom! However we have evidence that it is very possible.

Vegapunk is also a genius scientists who dabbles in future tech from moving holograms, to teleportation, cyborgs, clones, super soldiers, super-power serums (green blood), literal climate change on island, etc.

So to casual accept everything else he's invented as believable but to not believe he can't make an laser with enough high energy that explodes on contact is silly.

Even further silly is you got Kizaru, the literal LS man of the series firing lasers that explode, proving (at least in their universe) that lasers do infact -- explode!

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

Sanji reacted and blocked Kizarus laser point blank

Luffy point blank dodged Kizarus laser

Sentomaru also ran at light speed dodging Kizarus lasers and explosions which took a few seconds to cover a total distance of like 3 meters.
[automerge]1724090483[/automerge]

Lasers explode:

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/748895/laser-induced-explosion-detonation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb_explosion

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19738780/

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1076937

The problem is; we as humans haven't made an energy weapon (yet) with enough power to fire lasers that go boom boom! However we have evidence that it is very possible.

Vegapunk is also a genius scientists who dabbles in future tech from moving holograms, to teleportation, cyborgs, clones, super soldiers, super-power serums (green blood), literal climate change on island, etc.

So to casual accept everything else he's invented as believable but to not believe he can't make an laser with enough high energy that explodes on contact is silly.

Even further silly is you got Kizaru, the literal LS man of the series firing lasers that explode, proving (at least in their universe) that lasers do infact -- explode!

No they fucking do not.

You can use a laser to ignite something to explode, something with already explosive properties.


It's intense heat so it's bound to cause something to pop, but a laser by itself is not a bomb, it can only pierce, melt and cut things.

 

[Steven]

Sentomaru also ran at light speed dodging Kizarus lasers and explosions which took a few seconds to cover a total distance of like 3 meters.

And?Feat for Sentomaru

No they fucking do not.

Yes, lasers can theoretically cause explosions, but it depends on several factors such as the laser's power.

 

[Cadis Etrama Di Urek]

And?Feat for Sentomaru

Correct, since it took him seconds to cross a meter worth of distance via running then that means Kizarus laser is even slower than sound, much slower in fact.


Also makes sense since Luffy flat out admitted he couldn't catch a horse on foot in Wano.

Yes, lasers can theoretically cause explosions, but it depends on several factors such as the laser's power.

No, it's not a power thing.


I've read this shit a while ago and even your sources don't support you



For example, if we make a laser beam powerful and large enough to eat up an entite building what will the effect be?

The answer is theoretically it will straight burn through it like a laser would but the resulting intense heat could cause a popping sensation, something like a shockwave due to impact force which isn't an explosion.


A laser can be used to ignite something with explosive properties, it can't actually explode.

 

[SkySanji]

What a complete clown

 

[Shiroyru]

Dunno why people downplay Madara with Guy's feats. Juubito was easily reacting to Minato and tagging him. 8 gates Guy was a beast and Madara despite having a part of his body blown off simply regenerated. Juubito has the Truth Seeking Orbs, which were described as disintegrating everything on a molecular level similar to Oonoki's Jinton, while having the advantage of taking on any form, only weakness being Senjutsu. That's why Kakashi had to rip a hole into the shield created by Madara with Kamui for Guy to pass through, or otherwise it would have disintegrated him with physical contact, which means its effect goes beyond Ninjutsu.

In the Manga, Juubito was seen instantly putting out a barrier superior to the ones created by 4 Hokage, then instantly firing off 4 large Juubidamas while shielding himself with the Truth Seeking Balls, with the Barrier being strong enough to withstand the explosion.

Juubito would wreck any One Piece character.

Spoiler

This is what a small Juubidama looks like for anyone who has forgotten, being so large you can see the curvature of the earth, towering a hundred times over mountains, and Juubito can instantly utilize the power of multiple larger ones while having a perfect defense (360 degrees truth seeking balls shielding), which simultaneously acts as the perfect offense (disintegrating everything on a molecular level).

How does anyone think a One Piece character stands a chance.

Gotta love how One Piece fans will tell you with a straight face that Bajrang Gun is > this Juubi bijuudama just because Oda wrote a note about the “reverberations being felt 1000 miles away.” Ignore that in the actual manga, the people in the Flower Capital couldn’t even feel the reverberations from 5 miles away, and that the Juubi’s bijuudamas could be felt from hundreds of not thousands of miles away.

 

[Shiroyru]

What a complete clown

The real clowns are the ones seriously arguing that One Piece high tiers and mid tiers can casually move at light speed when Gazelleman, who was hyped for his speed, was literally stated to run at a measly 200 km/h, yet was still too fast for Base Luffy and Zoro to catch up to. Even a top tier like Venus, who is portrayed as having good speed, took 7 minutes to run around a tiny island.

 

[SkySanji]

The real clowns are the ones seriously arguing that One Piece high tiers and mid tiers can casually move at light speed when Gazelleman, who was hyped for his speed, was literally stated to run at a measly 200 km/h, yet was still too fast for Base Luffy and Zoro to catch up to. Even a top tier like Venus, who is portrayed as having good speed, took 7 minutes to run around a tiny island.

Learn the difference between travel speed, combat speed and reaction speed.

 

[Shiroyru]

Learn the difference between travel speed, combat speed and reaction speed.

So somehow entering combat allows characters to move 1000000x faster than they normally could? Make it make sense.

 

[SkySanji]

So somehow entering combat allows characters to move 1000000x faster than they normally could? Make it make sense.

Nothing to do with entering combat, they're simply different processes, like what the fuck does reacting to something have to do with how fast you can run for long distances? Nothing, they're entirely different.

I don't know if you're new to powerscaling, but speed being separated into categories such as travel, combat and reaction has always been a thing, this isn't exclusive to One Piece.