Kingdom General Tier list

[Rumble]

You can see on the first page a 2 vs 1 while Shiryou is doing good.

She did even better in 785.

But just after you can see that Kansaro stopped fighting and wanted to go away. It stopped to be a full time 2 vs 1 like Akou.

If Kan Saro stopped fighting, he would’ve gotten away.

The 3 of them being not being glued together in every panel does not preclude this fight - or any similar fight - from being a 2v1.

If you revisit 559, you’ll find that wasn’t the case for A Kou vs BNJ and Gyou’un either.

Shi Ryou was attacking Kan Saro and Ji Aga with aggression and persistence. She was fighting both the entire time. I don’t see the point trying to add unnecessary qualifiers.

Then Shiryou stopped Kansaro and blocked Jiaga hit.

‘Then Kansaro explicitely said that before he wasn’t that serious and in kill mode and then in the 786 the real 2 vs 1 happened and Shiryou was overwhelmed in one page (that I posted above)

Both Kansaro and Jiaga only showed true resolve late in the fight and not in the beginning.

‘and during the 2 vs 1 in 786 she got beaten quickly.

Then after being slashed in the back the 2 vs 1 stopped and she was rescued by Qin soldiers

She wasn’t beaten yet, she was still standing, and still fighting back. She was saved from a killing blow in the midst of a fight.

A Kou was very much a beaten corpse and then saved from the final blow.

In 786 Jiaga and Kansaro got the better on her and hurt her quite quickly

Together, not individually.

After that slash it became a different situation

Nevertheless.

As stated, I argued the results. If you want to go in circles on who had it relatively worse or performed better under their given circumstances, that’s layers of subjectivity I don’t particularly feel like arguing about now.

On the original point of disagreement:

Yeah Akou did better during his two 2-3 vs 1

This is just plain wrong for my money.

The results have A Kou a second removed from death and Shi Ryou being the aggressor in her fight and landing what appears to be a killing blow.

You can argue the context, there really isn’t much to argue against the results, imo.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

And the amount of trust Tou still gave to these youngsters back in the Wei arc despite them suddenly being matched up against the two Fire Dragons, proceeding with Ouhon's plan anyway and trusting them to pull through in their respective battlefields with their own skills...you have got to wonder how he would have reacted if it was instead fucking Rinshoujo coming back from the grave and appearing in front of these boys. Lol.

Damn I really think ya'll are sleeping on these Fire Dragons man lmao.

Like, yeah. In the grand scheme of things they weren't the most impressive individuals we've seen in the story, but the portrayel is there.

Friendly reminder that Earl Shi killed 3 of his peers. You can argue about how the circumstances of which this incident occured, but the fact of the matter is that not a single Great Heaven or Six General has been credited with even one of their heads.

Shin and Ouhon managed to take a head of their own due to very specific circumstances that worked in their favor (one was a shell of his former self with a weakness that was easily capitalized and the other was being at the wrong place at the wrong time/betrayed.)

And I know we like to treat Gaimou as a simple meathead not worthy of respect (guilty here), but the fact of that matter is that his rank suggests he produces actual meaningful results on the battlefield. Gohoumei was not Fire Dragon worthy at this point, which should say something.

We kinda just have to accept that the Qin prodigies have talent that surpasses all imagination to the point of ridiculousness. The guys they matched up with were simply not prepared for it.

Qin and Zhao have generals that belong in a higher tier, but let's settle down the Wei slander a bit lol.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

@MarineHQ @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @SakazOuki @Owl Ki

not that happy with how this turned out

I tried to order it, but it became really hard in the lower tiers lol and I got a bit lazy

overall it was actually extremely hard to make, maybe I should have had more tiers

in case anyone is wondering why i have Gokei above Duke, is because Gokei didn't have to engage in that duel.

Hakuki would have been inbetween Ousen and Gakuki

updated my tier list
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Rumble

lower tiers look very sus to me lol

 

[Rumble]

@TheKnightOfTheSea is that based on how you think the manga has it, or how you have it yourself in your own perception/headcanon?

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

updated my tier list
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Rumble

lower tiers look very sus to me lol

lol, is there a meme around Kaioku that I am unaware of?

Curious as to why you have Hakuki beneath Gakuki and Riboku. You don’t think his portrayal is any different from Ouki or Rinshoujou?

Moubu should be bumped up a tier. He was directly said to be the strongest offensive power in Qin history, making him superior to Kyou and Oukotsu outright. Kanmei in the same tier as Oukotsu seems a bit sus too.

Y’all really do sleep on Keisha don’t you? In my mind, Keisha being said to be the closest to the 3GH rank at the same time Kochou was active in Zhao would definitively put Keisha above Kochou and all other Zhao generals at that time excluding Shibashou. I had no idea Keisha hate was such an extreme phenomenon on WorstGen. To put him in the same tier as Ordo is a travesty lol. If I were a Keisha fan I would go off on this point but I don’t want to give @MarineHQ more ammunition lol.

Ranking Kyou En and Genpou separately from Kaishibou and Rinko…nah I wouldn’t do that. They all had equal portrayal as Renpa’s subs. If anything Kaishibou should be the highest ranked as he is their leader but I wouldn’t go that far. The purpose of Kyou En’s and Genpou’s hypes was just to hype the heavenly king level as a whole, not necessarily to hype the two of them above the others.

I think I would agree with Kansaro at Heavenly King, but bump Jiaga up a tier. Let’s not let memes cloud our judgment lol, he was just as much an asset to Shibashou as Kansaro is.

Correct Gakuhaku Kou placement. Lol

I think Kouson Ryuu and Rihaku belong a tier higher. Both of them definitely have better portrayal than Aisen, Raido, and Akakin. Also bump my man Kanou up with Ryuukoku, why is he that low lol. And then I might just change the decent and average tiers into one tier.

Maybe Zuocci (the assassin Shin and Heki kill in arc 1) goes higher too. This guy was a high ranking officer in the Seikyou faction at the height of its power, he ain’t some average general lol.

Overall good list, just some minor things I would change.

 

[Cichy]

Poor Wa Tegi was completely forgotten. I don't see anyone include him in their lists.

 

[MarineHQ]

updated my tier list
@Elder Lee Hung @Owl Ki @SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Rumble

lower tiers look very sus to me lol

Really good list. I assume the list goes from left to right ?

- Renpa, Ouki and Hakuki should be on Riboku’s tier. They're definitely Great General of the Heavens material.
- Kanmei and Moubu should either be the lowest of the 3GH tier or the top of the Qin 6 tier.
- I know I downplay Kyou and Bumkotsu a lot but they have had such terrible portrayal honestly I would put them a tier down. Oukotsu just can't be in the same tier with Kanmei.
- Shin and Ouhon feel a bit low tbh.
- The leader of the HK's should not be below another HK tbh.
- That Ji Aga disrespect.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

@TheKnightOfTheSea is that based on how you think the manga has it, or how you have it yourself in your own perception/headcanon?

a bit of both. I can't accept Kisui below Heavenly King despite his Shukai performance. And I speculated a lot on characters we haven't seen a lot of/wage war on panel. I also grouped some characters who probably shouldn't be in the same tier together for the sake of not creating too many tiers(Moubu/Kanmei and Oukotsu).

Curious as to why you have Hakuki beneath Gakuki and Riboku. You don’t think his portrayal is any different from Ouki or Rinshoujou?

I mean those two have the achievement of leading a coalition with 5-6 of the states. To me, it seems like Gakuki was the best when Hakuki was alive because it was said he singlehandly balanced China. Riboku also has portryal over Hakuki because Hakuki's comrade called Ouki Riboku an "unprecendented opponent".

I do have him above Ouki and RSJ in my list, it goes from left to right.

Moubu should be bumped up a tier. He was directly said to be the strongest offensive power in Qin history, making him superior to Kyou and Oukotsu outright. Kanmei in the same tier as Oukotsu seems a bit sus too.

That's fair. Moubu and Kanmei being in the same tier as Oukotsu to me looks odd unless we learn that Oukotsu posseses some formidable tactical ability in the future.

Y’all really do sleep on Keisha don’t you? In my mind, Keisha being said to be the closest to the 3GH rank at the same time Kochou was active in Zhao would definitively put Keisha above Kochou and all other Zhao generals at that time excluding Shibashou. I had no idea Keisha hate was such an extreme phenomenon on WorstGen. To put him in the same tier as Ordo is a travesty lol. If I were a Keisha fan I would go off on this point but I don’t want to give @MarineHQ more ammunition lol.

I genuinely had no idea where to put Keisha. I was considering putting him in the same tier as the Fire Dragons but I just gave up and put him on the top of the GG tier.

Ranking Kyou En and Genpou separately from Kaishibou and Rinko…nah I wouldn’t do that. They all had equal portrayal as Renpa’s subs. If anything Kaishibou should be the highest ranked as he is their leader but I wouldn’t go that far. The purpose of Kyou En’s and Genpou’s hypes was just to hype the heavenly king level as a whole, not necessarily to hype the two of them above the others.

okay Genpou I understand.... but Kyou'En is a different story. Man survived multiple wars against Qin 6s and Renpa on his own. To give you an idea, the biggest feat Rinko accomplished and was used to hype him up was landing a singular blow on Ouki. Kyou En fought entire wars against 5 Oukis lmao and it was pretty casually mentioned.

I think I would agree with Kansaro at Heavenly King, but bump Jiaga up a tier. Let’s not let memes cloud our judgment lol, he was just as much an asset to Shibashou as Kansaro is.

I wasn't trying to downplay Jiaga lol, I thought same tier as Shiryou and Batei was fine.

- Renpa, Ouki and Hakuki should be on Riboku’s tier. They're definitely Great General of the Heavens material.

I have nothing against them being that high.

- I know I downplay Kyou and Bumkotsu a lot but they have had such terrible portrayal honestly I would put them a tier down. Oukotsu just can't be in the same tier with Kanmei.

I wouldn't put them on Fire Dragon tier but yeah I could have created two tiers instead of the one Qin 6 tier.

- Shin and Ouhon feel a bit low tbh.

They were hard to scale. I could have put Ouhon higher and use the Fire Dragon victory as

- The leader of the HK's should not be below another HK tbh.

I mean Kaishibou was literally lectured by Genpou for disgracing the name of the HKs against Kanki. I've never been a believer in him. To me he seems to lack an X-factor that a lot of the characters who directly scale to him have. Gyou'un with instincts + 10 spears, Banana with tactical ability and rage mode, Akou with shells & joints. Kyou'En fought Oukotsu, Ouki, Kyou, Hakuki, Renpa and Ousen. I find it hard to believe Hakuki wouldn't quickly overwhelm and outsmart Kaishibou.

I would have put Sentou'Un in regular GG level.

And then I might just change the decent and average tiers into one tier.

maybe I should have. Idk I think guys like Gaku'Ei and the other Keisha sub belong down there. Lol

Kanou should have been higher because of his Mangoku feat, I just find it difficult to place him on the same tier as Rokuomi

 

[God Buggy]

Duke Hyou and Kanki are truly wild cards.

Most fans probably wouldn't rank either one as being a top 5 all time commander but no general that we have seen is completely safe from their abilities. They are capable of pulling out some absolutely shocking stuff.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I do have him above Ouki and RSJ in my list, it goes from left to right.

That changes many things lol. Still a good list but definitely much more that I would probably quibble over.

You have Shibashou above Moubu and Kanmei? I think I’m probably more hyped for Lord Sheeb than anyone but I wouldn’t put him above them lol…you’re thinking that highly of him? That’s crazy levels of hype. Doubt he’ll live up to that. Not even a 3GH can be that powerful by sheer martial strength, imo lol.

Gokei above Moubu and Kanmei is also strange, and you put Karin above Kanmei despite her being ranked beneath him when he was alive..really you just need to bump Moubu and Kanmei up lmfao

Yeah I won’t quibble over every little thing but I think you have Moubu and Kanmei too low

To give you an idea, the biggest feat Rinko accomplished and was used to hype him up was landing a singular blow on Ouki.

Actually the biggest thing Rinko was hyped on was that he broke through Ouki’s defense and landed a blow on him. Which Kyou En never accomplished so far as we know, he may have had tactical feats against the Qin 6 but he never straight up tore through one of their formations and wounded them directly.

Rinko’s hype was definitely distinguished among the other Heavenly Kings:

Mouten even calls him “the most dangerous Heavenly King” outright. And that was because Mouten actually read up on Renpa’s service record, and not simply because he was basing that statement on Sanyou alone. By Mouten’s estimation reading up on Renpa’s career, Rinko was the real threat among g the Heavenly Kings. And it’s not like Mouten didn’t know of Kyou En because he outright said Kyou En was equally matched with Renpa at one point.

Mouten also said that historically, Rinko has shouldered the most important tasks out of all the Heavenly Kings. Again this is based on Mouten reading Renpa’s service record directly and not just based on Sanyou.

Yeah if any of the Heavenly Kings belong above the rest, it should be Rinko or maybe Kaishibou like I said, but again I wouldn’t even go that far lol.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

You have Shibashou above Moubu and Kanmei? I think I’m probably more hyped for Lord Sheeb than anyone but I wouldn’t put him above them lol…you’re thinking that highly of him? That’s crazy levels of hype. Doubt he’ll live up to that. Not even a 3GH can be that powerful by sheer martial strength, imo lol.

I think he'll have more than just martial might. Some degree of tactical ability and maybe possibility instincts. He's clearly amazing at defense looking at his Ordo feat. Hara has hyped him up for half a decade, I have faith he'll deliver.

Gokei above Moubu and Kanmei is also strange, and you put Karin above Kanmei despite her being ranked beneath him when he was alive..really you just need to bump Moubu and Kanmei up lmfao

Regarding Karin vs Kanmei.... when Karin was ranked below him she was still a rising star in the Chu military. She herself said that the coalition battle revealed two unknown monsters in her and Moubu to the rest of China. And now Karin is being set up as the SHK/RBK equivalent for Chu and is growing in ability.

 

[God Buggy]

@Elder Lee Hung We'll see how things will turn out when it comes to evaluating Shibashou as a commander, but just purely in terms of 1v1 prowess I doubt he'll be above or even equal to Kanmei. Kanmei's dueling feats are:

1. One shotting Qin Six Oukotsu as a young general, and not even using the mace. I agree that Oukotsu underestimated him but boi was Hara on crack when he wrote that😂. In any case it's clear that he already was stronger than him plain and simple.

2. Had Moubu at the backfoot right from the start, then Moubu went full strenght and Kanmei still almost knocked him out (then waited for him to get back up), and then finally Moubu defeated him unleashing his "without logic" strenght. Lol.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Karin was ranked below him she was still a rising star in the Chu military. She herself said that the coalition battle revealed two unknown monsters in her and Moubu to the rest of China. And now Karin is being set up as the SHK/RBK equivalent for Chu and is growing in ability.

I think Karin was unknown to China but not to Chu or Shunshinkun, Shouheikun himself knew Moubu had that dog in him just like Shunshinkun knew Karin’s true level. But I’m fine with her growing equal to or above Kanmei I suppose.

@Elder Lee Hung We'll see how things will turn out when it comes to evaluating Shibashou as a commander, but just purely in terms of 1v1 prowess I doubt he'll be above or even equal to Kanmei. Kanmei's dueling feats are:

1. One shotting Qin Six Oukotsu as a young general, and not even using the mace. I agree that Oukotsu underestimated him but boi was Hara on crack when he wrote that😂. In any case it's clear that he already was stronger than him plain and simple.

2. Had Moubu completely at the backfoot right from the very start, then Moubu went full strenght and Kanmei still almost knocked him out (then waited for him to get back up), and then finally Moubu defeated him unleashing his "without logic" strenght. Lol.

I think Hara will give Shibashou the 99 strength lol, but yeah in terms of experience Kanmei surely has him beat. My martial tier list has Moubu and Kanmei above Shibashou but Shibashou above Man’U and Ouki.

 

[God Buggy]

My martial tier list has Moubu and Kanmei above Shibashou but Shibashou above Man’U and Ouki.

Thoughts on both Karin and Kouen dueling wise?

Karin looks like an animal. She's almost eye to eye with Kanmei in height.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Thoughts on both Karin and Kouen dueling wise?

Karin looks like an animal. She's almost eye to eye with Kanmei in height.

I reread Coalition and Karin was training with a mace, a sword, and nunchucks featuring Bamyuu lol. So she’s probably a beast but she also strikes me as someone who thinks dueling or fighting personally is beneath her. So I doubt we’ll really ever see her fighting personally unless someone breaks into her HQ, and even then she isn’t fighting any honor duels which she would find dumb. Karin’s melees would be similar to Kanki’s melees, she doesn’t care about winning honor duels, she is going for the W.

Interestingly I think Ka En is probably one of the best spears in China lol. Mouten was able to deal with Yoku but Ka En’s spear had Mouten wide’eyed with his fast it was lol.

And speaking of Yoku, he is only a taste of what Kou En will show martially. Dude is going to be a freak. Here is the last martial tier list I did for reference.

 

[Extravlad]

On second thoughts Kyoukai is a bit low.

It's an overall TL so Houken gets A in spite of having no ability as a general purely due to how valuable he can be martially. Characters are classed based on how valuable they are in a war

 

[God Buggy]

I reread Coalition and Karin was training with a mace, a sword, and nunchucks featuring Bamyuu lol. So she’s probably a beast but she also strikes me as someone who thinks dueling or fighting personally is beneath her. So I doubt we’ll really ever see her fighting personally unless someone breaks into her HQ, and even then she isn’t fighting any honor duels which she would find dumb. Karin’s melees would be similar to Kanki’s melees, she doesn’t care about winning honor duels, she is going for the W.

Yes fuck dumb honor duels

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Interestingly I think Ka En is probably one of the best spears in China lol. Mouten was able to deal with Yoku but Ka En’s spear had Mouten wide’eyed with his fast it was lol.

@Bullet now's the time to make a Ka En >Earl Shi thread
I'm low-key interested in whether or not Ka En is the brother Karin was looking for

Post automatically merged: Mar 10, 2024

I reread Coalition and Karin was training with a mace, a sword, and nunchucks featuring Bamyuu lol. So she’s probably a beast but she also strikes me as someone who thinks dueling or fighting personally is beneath her. So I doubt we’ll really ever see her fighting personally unless someone breaks into her HQ, and even then she isn’t fighting any honor duels which she would find dumb. Karin’s melees would be similar to Kanki’s melees, she doesn’t care about winning honor duels, she is going for the W.

Interestingly I think Ka En is probably one of the best spears in China lol. Mouten was able to deal with Yoku but Ka En’s spear had Mouten wide’eyed with his fast it was lol.

And speaking of Yoku, he is only a taste of what Kou En will show martially. Dude is going to be a freak. Here is the last martial tier list I did for reference.

Where would you have the Earl on this list? And Sentou'un?

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I'm low-key interested in whether or not Ka En is the brother Karin was looking for

I want to see that flashback before the series ends. Lol

Where would you have the Earl on this list? And Sentou'un?

Around Tou - Oukotsu, somewhere in that range. Weaker than prime Shouheikun I would say.

Post automatically merged: Mar 10, 2024

I reread Coalition and Karin was training with a mace, a sword, and nunchucks featuring Bamyuu lol. So she’s probably a beast but she also strikes me as someone who thinks dueling or fighting personally is beneath her. So I doubt we’ll really ever see her fighting personally unless someone breaks into her HQ, and even then she isn’t fighting any honor duels which she would find dumb. Karin’s melees would be similar to Kanki’s melees, she doesn’t care about winning honor duels, she is going for the W.

Interestingly I think Ka En is probably one of the best spears in China lol. Mouten was able to deal with Yoku but Ka En’s spear had Mouten wide’eyed with his fast it was lol.

And speaking of Yoku, he is only a taste of what Kou En will show martially. Dude is going to be a freak. Here is the last martial tier list I did for reference.

Just realizing how many characters this tier list is missing lol. I may need to make another one.

 

[God Buggy]

I want to see that flashback before the series ends. Lol



Around Tou - Oukotsu, somewhere in that range. Weaker than prime Shouheikun I would say.

Post automatically merged: Mar 10, 2024

Just realizing how many characters this tier list is missing lol. I may need to make another one.

Rinshoujo being a tier higher than Koshou in the martial list is funny lol, it incapsulates well your Three Great Heavens wank😂