Chapter Discussion Kizaru was the appetizer for Luffy. Lets be real. The Saturn fight is the main event.

[SkySanji]

Kizaru's sole reason for existing in this arc was for Oda to show how Yonko completely dunk on mere AssmiraLs, he did it at the end of Wano with Shanks too

Saturn is obviously the big bad, Kizaru's far more likely to become a nakama at this point, an AssmiraL becoming a Yonko's slave wouldn't be a new thing

 

[Paperchampion23]

Honestly if Saturn can even heal from that, that is definitely some scary shit. Not sure how he’d even be beatable in the future, maybe drowning?

No idea, but it would absolutely solidify the endgame nature of his character for sure.

All i know is unlike the OP, Im still not convinced he goes down this arc. Too many wildcards at play with Kizaru, the Mother Flame (Imu needs to succeed on getting this or his weapon is useless), and the Ancient Robot. And far too many assumptions are being made on what exactly the "incident" at Egghead even suggests.

Hell, we cant even be sure there will be proper fights, as much as I would love them, we could be at Elbaf sooner than we think.

Thats not to say Luffy cant or wont save Bonney/Kuma from Saturn, but thats also not the point Im making here either.

 

[BlackLegFring]

Honestly if Saturn can even heal from that, that is definitely some scary shit. Not sure how he’d even be beatable in the future, maybe drowning?

I still believe that it’s the immortality surgery that grants the regeneration. If that’s the case, it would still be possible to knock out Saturn but not kill him.

It may still come down to Law somehow reversing it for the Gorosei & Imu. A lot of people expected that when it was just Imu that was presumed to be immortal, so the Gorosei also possibly undergoing the surgery complicates things.

 

[Garp the Fist]

There’s no reason that Saturn can’t be defeated here. It’s nothing like WCI and Big Mom/Katakuri.

BM couldn’t have been defeated on WCI for a host of reasons.

Half the crew wasn’t there. There was absolutely no chance that the first Yonko was going to be defeated without Zoro and the others playing a part.

Luffy was not ready yet powerwise. It would have been a wild jump for Luffy to go from Doffy/Cracker fights to going one vs one with a Yonko

Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Zou were all arcs devoted ti building up to Kaido being the first one to be defeated. Big Mom had a couple of chapters at the end of FI and on Zou, and we went into the arc knowing it was just a side mission to get Sanji back.

Also, the Gorosei are not like the Yonko from an organisational point of view.

The Yonko are four (well, now seven) totally different organisations, made up of their own captains, crewmates, islands, allies, enemies etc. Each one is an entirely seperate thing.

The Gorosei are more of a monolith. They are all in the same organisation (as “Commanders” to Imu). They are all designed similar. They are all from Mariejois, they are all Celestial Dragons, likely to all have Yokai themed DF, all have names with the same theme. Beat one, there’s still four more to take on, and the one in charge of them all, Imu.

Luffy’s now at a stage where he should be able to fight anyone. Can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be able to fight one of Imu’s commanders. Also, Saturn will be strong, but I heavily doubt that he’ll be stronger than foes still to come like Blackbeard, Shanks, Akainu.

And if he is, and he can’t be soloed- then he can be taken down as a team. All the crew is here for once, plus Vegapunk, plus Kuma and Bonney. If it takes all of that to take down Saturn, there’s you’re build up for the other four already set.

And you can make it even more hype if you want, by having them unable to beat Saturn and it requiring something suicidal Kuma bomb to wipe Egghead
off the map along with Saturn.

One thing’s for sure- the dramatic tension is never going to be this high for Saturn’s defeat again. We just had the ten chapter flashback building up why Kuma and Bonney hate this man and he should be defeated. This is us at peak “fuck Saturn, taks him down” emotional territory. It can only go down after the arc is over. If Saturn survives for another day, he will again be coming just one of five to be defeated. It’s only here that he can be the main villain.

 

[Durableguy]

There’s no reason that Saturn can’t be defeated here. It’s nothing like WCI and Big Mom/Katakuri.

BM couldn’t have been defeated on WCI for a host of reasons.

Half the crew wasn’t there. There was absolutely no chance that the first Yonko was going to be defeated without Zoro and the others playing a part.

Luffy was not ready yet powerwise. It would have been a wild jump for Luffy to go from Doffy/Cracker fights to going one vs one with a Yonko

Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Zou were all arcs devoted ti building up to Kaido being the first one to be defeated. Big Mom had a couple of chapters at the end of FI and on Zou, and we went into the arc knowing it was just a side mission to get Sanji back.

Also, the Gorosei are not like the Yonko from an organisational point of view.

The Yonko are four (well, now seven) totally different organisations, made up of their own captains, crewmates, islands, allies, enemies etc. Each one is an entirely seperate thing.

The Gorosei are more of a monolith. They are all in the same organisation (as “Commanders” to Imu). They are all designed similar. They are all from Mariejois, they are all Celestial Dragons, likely to all have Yokai themed DF, all have names with the same theme. Beat one, there’s still four more to take on, and the one in charge of them all, Imu.

Luffy’s now at a stage where he should be able to fight anyone. Can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be able to fight one of Imu’s commanders. Also, Saturn will be strong, but I heavily doubt that he’ll be stronger than foes still to come like Blackbeard, Shanks, Akainu.

And if he is, and he can’t be soloed- then he can be taken down as a team. All the crew is here for once, plus Vegapunk, plus Kuma and Bonney. If it takes all of that to take down Saturn, there’s you’re build up for the other four already set.

And you can make it even more hype if you want, by having them unable to beat Saturn and it requiring something suicidal Kuma bomb to wipe Egghead
off the map along with Saturn.

One thing’s for sure- the dramatic tension is never going to be this high for Saturn’s defeat again. We just had the ten chapter flashback building up why Kuma and Bonney hate this man and he should be defeated. This is us at peak “fuck Saturn, taks him down” emotional territory. It can only go down after the arc is over. If Saturn survives for another day, he will again be coming just one of five to be defeated. It’s only here that he can be the main villain.

That last paragraph. That's precisely WHY he has to go down. Everything else was great but you wrote it down perfectly.

You simply can't compare an arc without Zoro, Franky and Robin to one with them.

 

[Paperchampion23]

There’s no reason that Saturn can’t be defeated here. It’s nothing like WCI and Big Mom/Katakuri.

BM couldn’t have been defeated on WCI for a host of reasons.

Half the crew wasn’t there. There was absolutely no chance that the first Yonko was going to be defeated without Zoro and the others playing a part.

Luffy was not ready yet powerwise. It would have been a wild jump for Luffy to go from Doffy/Cracker fights to going one vs one with a Yonko

Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Zou were all arcs devoted ti building up to Kaido being the first one to be defeated. Big Mom had a couple of chapters at the end of FI and on Zou, and we went into the arc knowing it was just a side mission to get Sanji back.

Also, the Gorosei are not like the Yonko from an organisational point of view.

The Yonko are four (well, now seven) totally different organisations, made up of their own captains, crewmates, islands, allies, enemies etc. Each one is an entirely seperate thing.

The Gorosei are more of a monolith. They are all in the same organisation (as “Commanders” to Imu). They are all designed similar. They are all from Mariejois, they are all Celestial Dragons, likely to all have Yokai themed DF, all have names with the same theme. Beat one, there’s still four more to take on, and the one in charge of them all, Imu.

Luffy’s now at a stage where he should be able to fight anyone. Can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be able to fight one of Imu’s commanders. Also, Saturn will be strong, but I heavily doubt that he’ll be stronger than foes still to come like Blackbeard, Shanks, Akainu.

And if he is, and he can’t be soloed- then he can be taken down as a team. All the crew is here for once, plus Vegapunk, plus Kuma and Bonney. If it takes all of that to take down Saturn, there’s you’re build up for the other four already set.

And you can make it even more hype if you want, by having them unable to beat Saturn and it requiring something suicidal Kuma bomb to wipe Egghead
off the map along with Saturn.

One thing’s for sure- the dramatic tension is never going to be this high for Saturn’s defeat again. We just had the ten chapter flashback building up why Kuma and Bonney hate this man and he should be defeated. This is us at peak “fuck Saturn, taks him down” emotional territory. It can only go down after the arc is over. If Saturn survives for another day, he will again be coming just one of five to be defeated. It’s only here that he can be the main villain.

Which is fine, but the point being made is that there are still too many wildcards this arc to even determine anyone HAS to go down of his caliber at this time.

One issue is Kizaru. No matter how much people screech up and down about his state, he visibly is undamaged, talking and even moved positions. The other is the Ancient Robot. We have no idea what its role will be.

That being said, I have zero problems with the Gorosei losing this arc, and I agree that when you factor in Blackbeard, Shanks and Akainu (whom imo will all fight each other in a larger battle anyway), he does not need to be stronger than them and can lose here.

I just base things objectively, and right now theres too many unknowns to hard confirm things at this time. We still dont even know if we'll truly get proper fights this arc.

Kuma, for example, fodderizes 2 VAs this chapter while trying to save Bonney.

 

[Nadel]

Kuma is the only one who is defeating Saturn.....Zoro finish humiliating Lucci, Zoro will go for Saturn.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

One thing’s for sure- the dramatic tension is never going to be this high for Saturn’s defeat again. We just had the ten chapter flashback building up why Kuma and Bonney hate this man and he should be defeated. This is us at peak “fuck Saturn, taks him down” emotional territory. It can only go down after the arc is over. If Saturn survives for another day, he will again be coming just one of five to be defeated. It’s only here that he can be the main villain.

Yes but is this not exactly what Oda did with Jack?

Going back to my main point, this arc has always been about escape. You can’t do that if Saturn is getting defeated.

Feel like it would be better for Saturn to be defeated by S-Bear EoS.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Yes but is this not exactly what Oda did with Jack?

Jack’s defeat was truly awful and I would hope that Oda has learned from it.

It’s also not quite the same, in that Jack was only a looming threat for Zou. He and Luffy were never actually on the same island.

Saturn, on the other hand, is literally right in front of Luffy.

Going back to my main point, this arc has always been about escape. You can’t do that if Saturn is getting defeated.

Uh, no. If Saturn is a major obstacle to the escape, as he currently is, then his defeat can easily become a necessity for it. The Strawhats needed to beat CP9 to escape from EL, Luffy needed to beat Katakuri to escape from WCI. There’s no logical grounding in this assertion at all. Saturns defeat may or may not be necessary for them to escape. It hasn’t been established either way.

Feel like it would be better for Saturn to be defeated by S-Bear EoS.

I disagree in the strongest possible manner lol.

 

[Goodman Grey]

And Luffy will go much harder on Saturn than he did on Kizaru.

If you don't think they will fight. That's delusional. Saturn even pointed out Bonney's faith in Nika is waning.

How else is she going to believe in Nika again? And Kuma and Bonney's flashback mentioned Nika far too often for them not to see Nika

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2023

@Pringles @Kerkovian

I agree. Only if we get Zoro and/or Sanji vs Kizaru too though.
Also a proper Usopp and Nami fight.

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

Kizaru's sole reason for existing in this arc was for Oda to show how Yonko completely dunk on mere AssmiraLs, he did it at the end of Wano with Shanks too

Saturn is obviously the big bad, Kizaru's far more likely to become a nakama at this point, an AssmiraL becoming a Yonko's slave wouldn't be a new thing

 

[S.W317]

this is different

It’s only different due to recency bias lol

 

[Juanpiz]

Big Brain - he can give light so they can travel during night

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2023

Yes but is this not exactly what Oda did with Jack?

Going back to my main point, this arc has always been about escape. You can’t do that if Saturn is getting defeated.

Feel like it would be better for Saturn to be defeated by S-Bear EoS.

What did Oda do with jack? Give him a nice bounty and funny appearance

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

Big Brain - he can give light so they can travel during night

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2023

What did Oda do with jack? Give him a nice bounty and funny appearance

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Sure bro. This is no different than Law beating Doflamingo alone. Did that happen?

It’s more like Law beating vergo or Kyros beating diamanté

 

[S.W317]

Do you really think Oda would treat the most powerful rulers, excluding Imu, in the world like that?

Yes

 

[centurion]

 

[Juanpiz]

He went from "unclear justice" to "Luffy justice" lol

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2023

Kizaru with the "i am getting too old for this shit" face

 

[Herrera95]

Saturn is pooping his pants because of Kuma. He is not the main fight.

 

[CbShadow]

I don't know how people can read the manga and believe yonko > admiral when Luffy's condition is just as bad if not worse than Kizaru.