Controversial Let’s Fix Hara’s Drunken Stat System
- Thread starter Lee Ba Shou
- Start date
Kouen's probably the father/grandfather of Kouyoku.
He should have great genes.
Historically his grandson/great grandson was a ferocious fighter
Being fair, it is hard to imagine Prime Shin who's supposed to be the greatest general ever going to extreme diff with a 90 year old
He should have great genes.
Historically his grandson/great grandson was a ferocious fighter
Post automatically merged:
Being fair, it is hard to imagine Prime Shin who's supposed to be the greatest general ever going to extreme diff with a 90 year old
Last edited:
The name tiger and conqueror give off the vibe of a offensive general
I'll consider him Renpa like but not hybrid
He'll be a strategist imo
Strength: 95
Leadership: 98
Intelligence: 98
Experience: S
MouGoat vs Renpa type duel maybe
He puts his weight and passion overpowering Shin a bit but then getting overwhelmed
I'll consider him Renpa like but not hybrid
He'll be a strategist imo
Strength: 95
Leadership: 98
Intelligence: 98
Experience: S
Post automatically merged:
MouGoat vs Renpa type duel maybe
He puts his weight and passion overpowering Shin a bit but then getting overwhelmed
You don't even know what Kou En looks like, so what is there to justify this assumption?
Might have something to do with the context I'm speaking in.
Reality is unlikely to match your imagination when you accept these 3 simple facts
Might have something to do with the context I'm speaking in.
Reality is unlikely to match your imagination when you accept these 3 simple facts
- Qi lost ton of land in the eastern parts of China ~60 years ago
- Kou En is known as the Conqueror of the East
- Kou En has the longest service record in Chu history
We have no reason to assume anything about Kou En himself martially. Other than the fact that the only other Chu Great Generals we’ve seen have been martial monsters and so Kou En probably will be one himself.
Yoku means nothing. Moubu and Bananji both are huge monster men who’s sons inherited none of their huge bodies. Kou En could rival Kanmei as a warrior for all we know.
…
Anyway, I don’t think we’ll see any Chu commanders who are amazing morale raisers. Chu itself is a fragmented state filled with people who have no pride in Chu at all. It was even Kou En himself who said Chu has yet to take advantage of its full resources, which certainly seems to imply that Kou En himself is not able to unite the various armies within Chu.
If we see anybody who is capable of uniting the fragmented Chu…
Yoku means nothing. Moubu and Bananji both are huge monster men who’s sons inherited none of their huge bodies. Kou En could rival Kanmei as a warrior for all we know.
…
Anyway, I don’t think we’ll see any Chu commanders who are amazing morale raisers. Chu itself is a fragmented state filled with people who have no pride in Chu at all. It was even Kou En himself who said Chu has yet to take advantage of its full resources, which certainly seems to imply that Kou En himself is not able to unite the various armies within Chu.
If we see anybody who is capable of uniting the fragmented Chu…
It will be Shouheikun as Chu’s last king.
Especially with Hara setting up the plot line of Chu not having a true king right now. It’s as if Hara is setting Chu up as being desperate for that kingly figure who will come in and take charge.
I think it will be Kou En himself who approaches Shouheikun about becoming Chu’s King after he defects from Qin. This would allow Kou En to play a much more active roll in awakening Chu’s dormant potential which he so far has failed to do.
Especially with Hara setting up the plot line of Chu not having a true king right now. It’s as if Hara is setting Chu up as being desperate for that kingly figure who will come in and take charge.
I think it will be Kou En himself who approaches Shouheikun about becoming Chu’s King after he defects from Qin. This would allow Kou En to play a much more active roll in awakening Chu’s dormant potential which he so far has failed to do.
Ren Pa is late 60/early 70s.
If Kou En was of military age 55~60 years ago - which seems reasonable for the longest service record in Chu history - and you assume he began his military career at ~13 like Ou Ki did, then best case scenario would have him a little older or a little younger than Ren Pa.
I don't find it unlikely Kou En was a martial monster in his younger years, it could be why he was named Tiger of Chu, but we don't even know what he looks like. It is a baseless assumption he has the body type and/or genetic makeup to possess similar ability to Ren Pa or even Mou Gou in old age.
If Kou En was of military age 55~60 years ago - which seems reasonable for the longest service record in Chu history - and you assume he began his military career at ~13 like Ou Ki did, then best case scenario would have him a little older or a little younger than Ren Pa.
I don't find it unlikely Kou En was a martial monster in his younger years, it could be why he was named Tiger of Chu, but we don't even know what he looks like. It is a baseless assumption he has the body type and/or genetic makeup to possess similar ability to Ren Pa or even Mou Gou in old age.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Kouen being a bit older but still a martial beast. Renpa is killing it with like 70 and Kouen could easily be 10 years younger and just entered the battlefield as a fucking kid, not that ridiculous in those times I'd imagine.
Kanmei respects martial strength, he spoke like he was a proud deputy to Kouen so I'm imagining that respect comes somewhere.
Generally I imagine Kouen as a martial beast that isn't battle hungry whatsoever unlike pretty much everyone else. Calm and collected. Prefers to win battles with strategy and tactics but can fuck anyone's shit up when he's forced too.
Kanmei respects martial strength, he spoke like he was a proud deputy to Kouen so I'm imagining that respect comes somewhere.
Generally I imagine Kouen as a martial beast that isn't battle hungry whatsoever unlike pretty much everyone else. Calm and collected. Prefers to win battles with strategy and tactics but can fuck anyone's shit up when he's forced too.
I never expected Kouen to be a Kanmei tier fighter but I also can’t buy that he’s just a defenseless frail old man who only sits in the shadows scheming while everyone else does the heavy lifting.
That seems more like Karin’s role (even though she’s quite powerful in her own right.)
Around 94-95 is where I would imagine he’d land on. Not a martial beast necessarily but is a man who can lead charges nonetheless.
I’ll have to see at least one highly renowned general that is explicitly said to be heavily hindered by age before I can begin to see Kouen in that kind of light.
That seems more like Karin’s role (even though she’s quite powerful in her own right.)
Around 94-95 is where I would imagine he’d land on. Not a martial beast necessarily but is a man who can lead charges nonetheless.
I’ll have to see at least one highly renowned general that is explicitly said to be heavily hindered by age before I can begin to see Kouen in that kind of light.
It’s not a question of it being right or wrong.
It’s a question of it being a reasonable assumption.
I see no reason to assume Kou En has aged like Ren Pa and Kou En.
Kan Mei respecting martial might doesn’t mean he doesn’t respect those that wage war without it. His retinue was made up of brainy strategist types. Also, considering Kan Mei’s age at the time of his death, he should’ve seen Kou En in his later martial years.
What little we actually know of Chu simply doesn’t point at Kou En being a formidable fighter in old age.
It’s a question of it being a reasonable assumption.
I see no reason to assume Kou En has aged like Ren Pa and Kou En.
Kan Mei respecting martial might doesn’t mean he doesn’t respect those that wage war without it. His retinue was made up of brainy strategist types. Also, considering Kan Mei’s age at the time of his death, he should’ve seen Kou En in his later martial years.
What little we actually know of Chu simply doesn’t point at Kou En being a formidable fighter in old age.
Y’all really think Renpa is that old lmfao? I’d say he’s late 50s at worst currently. Which would put him around Mougou’s age for the Chu war.
Yeah Kou En will be old as fuck. Unless Hara has him conquering southern Qi as a teenager lol. I don’t think Kou En will be able to match EOS Shin in a long fight lol. Maybe like Shin vs Keisha or Garyuu, a brief explosion of weight from Kou En but otherwise Shin probably wins pretty quick.
It’s also a baseless assumption that he doesn’t, that’s our point lol.
Yeah Kou En will be old as fuck. Unless Hara has him conquering southern Qi as a teenager lol. I don’t think Kou En will be able to match EOS Shin in a long fight lol. Maybe like Shin vs Keisha or Garyuu, a brief explosion of weight from Kou En but otherwise Shin probably wins pretty quick.
It’s also a baseless assumption that he doesn’t, that’s our point lol.
Post automatically merged:
I may have talked about this in the past, but I’ve always pictured Kou En as Shin’s last major general antagonist prior to Ousen so I think he’ll get more focus. He is almost like the Kaido of Kingdom in that Hara hyped his ass for 15 years because we’re going to see Kou En vs Shin not once but twice.
So here is how I picture the Chu war(s):
At some point we will find out that learning how to bounce back from defeat is an essential trait for the greatest generals of all time. Defeat and loss is a part of life, and it is only after recovering from those huge losses can you reach your full potential.
Enter Shin vs Kou En round 1. Kou En overwhelmingly and horribly defeats Shin, killing seven of his long-time commanders (no clue who these are) and handing Shin arguably the biggest fucking L in the history of the state of Qin. Literally Kou En will massacre 200,000 Qin troops and defeat 2 of the Qin 6 lead by Shin. That is a horrible defeat lol.
So this nearly breaks Shin and nearly makes him forsake his dream because this defeat is just so overwhelming. But by the time Qin is ready to invade Chu again, Shin has hardened himself and is ready to make up for his defeat. It is only at this time that Renpa will want to actually face Shin himself, because he will instinctively know that Shin will come back stronger than he has ever been before.
And when Shin comes back for Chu round 2, it’s time to get “revenge”’on Kou En for the first defeat, and that’s when Shin will face and surpass him.
Shouheikun will be more of an opponent for Moubu or even Ei Sei himself to some extent. Not necessarily for Shin who will have much more personal beef with Kou En.
So here is how I picture the Chu war(s):
At some point we will find out that learning how to bounce back from defeat is an essential trait for the greatest generals of all time. Defeat and loss is a part of life, and it is only after recovering from those huge losses can you reach your full potential.
Enter Shin vs Kou En round 1. Kou En overwhelmingly and horribly defeats Shin, killing seven of his long-time commanders (no clue who these are) and handing Shin arguably the biggest fucking L in the history of the state of Qin. Literally Kou En will massacre 200,000 Qin troops and defeat 2 of the Qin 6 lead by Shin. That is a horrible defeat lol.
So this nearly breaks Shin and nearly makes him forsake his dream because this defeat is just so overwhelming. But by the time Qin is ready to invade Chu again, Shin has hardened himself and is ready to make up for his defeat. It is only at this time that Renpa will want to actually face Shin himself, because he will instinctively know that Shin will come back stronger than he has ever been before.
And when Shin comes back for Chu round 2, it’s time to get “revenge”’on Kou En for the first defeat, and that’s when Shin will face and surpass him.
Shouheikun will be more of an opponent for Moubu or even Ei Sei himself to some extent. Not necessarily for Shin who will have much more personal beef with Kou En.
Last edited:
It was said that Renpa rose through the ranks at the same did that Mougou did. I think that suggests the two of them were around the same age.
Renpa has also looked pretty old even all the way back in flashbacks when Rinshoujou was still alive. mf has anti aging cream or sth
him being in his 70s isn't farfetched.
Renpa has also looked pretty old even all the way back in flashbacks when Rinshoujou was still alive. mf has anti aging cream or sth
him being in his 70s isn't farfetched.
I do think Moubu will slay Shouheikun, but SHK has buildup with Shin as well. He has always noticed and held the Hi Shin unit in regard, relied on them to help with the State of Ai incident, and even gave Shin an opportunity to kill Riboku.
Shouheikun may be the one who creates the overarching strategy that Chu uses against Qin while Kouen takes the role as the commander in chief who acts it out.
For all we know, Shouheikun might personally kill an important commander of Shin in front of him, or maybe even personally duel him during the attack.
Renpa may die to Shin before his defeat if it happens. Ouhon's campaign could be an opportunity for Shin to kill Renpa, and even the Han Invasion could since Raku'kan said that Han should ally with Chu. Though I'd prefer Qin to have to deal with Shouheikun, Kouen and Renpa.
and regarding the commanders, Sosui, Denyuu, Suugen, etc are likely screwed at least. Garo too maybe. Maybe a few of them will be Mouten's commanders.
I can see Kouen being Shin's arc opponent, but Shouheikun may end up being the main overarching antagonist of the Chu campaign.
Shouheikun may be the one who creates the overarching strategy that Chu uses against Qin while Kouen takes the role as the commander in chief who acts it out.
For all we know, Shouheikun might personally kill an important commander of Shin in front of him, or maybe even personally duel him during the attack.
Renpa may die to Shin before his defeat if it happens. Ouhon's campaign could be an opportunity for Shin to kill Renpa, and even the Han Invasion could since Raku'kan said that Han should ally with Chu. Though I'd prefer Qin to have to deal with Shouheikun, Kouen and Renpa.
and regarding the commanders, Sosui, Denyuu, Suugen, etc are likely screwed at least. Garo too maybe. Maybe a few of them will be Mouten's commanders.
I can see Kouen being Shin's arc opponent, but Shouheikun may end up being the main overarching antagonist of the Chu campaign.
Don’t forget that Moubu was still a footsoldier well into his 20s as he roamed from state to state before finding Qin. So if Moubu began his footsoldier career in his 20s and Renpa began in his teens like Shin did, this would match up.
We’ll see. If Hara’s one shot is any indication then Shouheikun meets his end at Moubu’s hands but I’m sure he and Shin will have some interactions:
By the historical records, Ren Pa should've been in his mid 60s during Sanyou, which was ~10 years ago in the story. That's always the age range I've believed him to be in at the time of that arc.
As for Mou Gou, he and Ren Pa were close in age and it's been about 8 years in the story since he passed, at which he was easily late 60s to early 70s.
Even if Hara had Ren Pa a couple years younger, at this point in the timeline, he is more likely to be in his early 70s than mid 60s.
It's not baseless to not take freak genetics for granted. It's common sense.
By your logic I could argue Kou En is likely to be a 7 foot lizard and anyone arguing against that is doing so on equally baseless assumptions. That's lunacy.
Again, we don't even know what Kou En looks like.
As for Mou Gou, he and Ren Pa were close in age and it's been about 8 years in the story since he passed, at which he was easily late 60s to early 70s.
Even if Hara had Ren Pa a couple years younger, at this point in the timeline, he is more likely to be in his early 70s than mid 60s.
It's not baseless to not take freak genetics for granted. It's common sense.
By your logic I could argue Kou En is likely to be a 7 foot lizard and anyone arguing against that is doing so on equally baseless assumptions. That's lunacy.
Again, we don't even know what Kou En looks like.
Last edited:
We’re not talking about some nameless footsoldier here, we’re talking about arguably the strongest commander in China right now. I’d say the odds of Kou En being a 7 foot tall animal are 50/50 at the moment. I could see it happening, and I could see it not happening.
Your posts make it seem as though you’re sure it won’t happen, and that’s not the correct way of thinking imo. This is Chu’s Tiger, the only other Tiger in China right now being Shibashou’s enormous ass. This is the guy who Kouretsu called sending Kanmei to Coalition “stingy” because he held Kou En back lol. This is one of the most weighty names in China right now, I would not at all be surprised if he’s eye to eye with Kanmei.
Your posts make it seem as though you’re sure it won’t happen, and that’s not the correct way of thinking imo. This is Chu’s Tiger, the only other Tiger in China right now being Shibashou’s enormous ass. This is the guy who Kouretsu called sending Kanmei to Coalition “stingy” because he held Kou En back lol. This is one of the most weighty names in China right now, I would not at all be surprised if he’s eye to eye with Kanmei.