Current Events Let's appreciate the New Monster Trio
- Thread starter Fleet Leader Fenaker
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Look, i'm not trying to shit on Jimbe's feats, i'm pointing out details that some choose to ignore or explain away to fit with their understanding of how strong Jimbe should be. Just letting you know that these were there, and many of his feats are not as clearly establishing for his power level as some of you think.
If Oda ends up making him as strong as some of you think he is, then these question marks get answered, and i have no complaints. Same should be the case for you guys if you end up being proven wrong while making all of these definitive statements about what this and that feat "clearly" means.
Corocodile and Moriah are very powerful in "Paradise". In New World they failed, and had to run back and avoid all the big boys. I can definitely concede that the length of One Piece makes them look worse than what Oda might have wanted, but that's what we have to work with. That's the strength level that Oda built upon to move the story forward, give Luffy a two years time skip to become way, way stronger, and only after that struggle to fight YC level characters.
Can i see Crocodile or Moriah return and be formidable ? Certainly. If they get back their drive and adventure into the NW i can see them looking much better than they did in the past. But the past is to be judged as it was, and back then they were certainly not as strong as YC's by any standard.
Sure. This Ace get's on Whitebeard's ship, and has hundrends of attempts to assasinate him in his sleep. Time passes and after said hundreds of attempts he's getting closer. We had info in one of the novels i believe where Whitebeard is slightly scorched when he get's his usual medical treatment and he says that Ace is getting stronger. After a lot of that going on he joins a division of the Whitebeard Pirates and adventures through the NW with them, getting stronger in the process before he becomes a commander.
If Oda ends up making him as strong as some of you think he is, then these question marks get answered, and i have no complaints. Same should be the case for you guys if you end up being proven wrong while making all of these definitive statements about what this and that feat "clearly" means.
Corocodile and Moriah are very powerful in "Paradise". In New World they failed, and had to run back and avoid all the big boys. I can definitely concede that the length of One Piece makes them look worse than what Oda might have wanted, but that's what we have to work with. That's the strength level that Oda built upon to move the story forward, give Luffy a two years time skip to become way, way stronger, and only after that struggle to fight YC level characters.
Can i see Crocodile or Moriah return and be formidable ? Certainly. If they get back their drive and adventure into the NW i can see them looking much better than they did in the past. But the past is to be judged as it was, and back then they were certainly not as strong as YC's by any standard.
Sure. This Ace get's on Whitebeard's ship, and has hundrends of attempts to assasinate him in his sleep. Time passes and after said hundreds of attempts he's getting closer. We had info in one of the novels i believe where Whitebeard is slightly scorched when he get's his usual medical treatment and he says that Ace is getting stronger. After a lot of that going on he joins a division of the Whitebeard Pirates and adventures through the NW with them, getting stronger in the process before he becomes a commander.
I know those details but you always find something that is irrelevant to one's power level.
Your goal is to present Jinbe as bad as possible so Sanji can look better.
The question marks should be targeting Sanji - how can he possibly be above someone as powerful as Jinbe?
When Law loses an arm to Doflamingo then Jinbe not losing it to BM or Akainu is big freaking deal but I understand that it might not look much to those who underestimate swords, doesnt change the greatness of the feat tho.
Crocodile and Moriah are powerful for NW standards as well. You forget that their failures in NW were against WSM and WSC themselves.
No, they werent avoiding just any big boys but the two baddest boys of the seas. Somehow that detail passed by unnoticed, huh?
Dont worry, both are back in the most dangerous sea. Whether Moriah is recovered or not is questionable but if he is and joins Blackbeard, he will be a real deal for whoever gets to fight him.
Crocodile, on the other hand, told us that his will power is recovered and that he is ready to take on the good old New World once again. When judging their past, you have to acknowledge what actually happened against Moriah(described in previous reply) and that Crocodile was a victim of meeting the MC early and was bound to lose. Marineford itself should have told you that Crocodile is far better than what you remember him against Luffy.
I still dont see what's better about him from performing one and the same thing every day - trying to stab Whitebeard in sleep.
What exactly gets improved from repeating those actions?
Your goal is to present Jinbe as bad as possible so Sanji can look better.
The question marks should be targeting Sanji - how can he possibly be above someone as powerful as Jinbe?
When Law loses an arm to Doflamingo then Jinbe not losing it to BM or Akainu is big freaking deal but I understand that it might not look much to those who underestimate swords, doesnt change the greatness of the feat tho.
Crocodile and Moriah are powerful for NW standards as well. You forget that their failures in NW were against WSM and WSC themselves.
No, they werent avoiding just any big boys but the two baddest boys of the seas. Somehow that detail passed by unnoticed, huh?
Dont worry, both are back in the most dangerous sea. Whether Moriah is recovered or not is questionable but if he is and joins Blackbeard, he will be a real deal for whoever gets to fight him.
Crocodile, on the other hand, told us that his will power is recovered and that he is ready to take on the good old New World once again. When judging their past, you have to acknowledge what actually happened against Moriah(described in previous reply) and that Crocodile was a victim of meeting the MC early and was bound to lose. Marineford itself should have told you that Crocodile is far better than what you remember him against Luffy.
I still dont see what's better about him from performing one and the same thing every day - trying to stab Whitebeard in sleep.
What exactly gets improved from repeating those actions?
Irrelevant in your opinion, obviously not in mine since i bring them up. Oda can prove you right and me wrong, or the other way around. Whatever the case we should not complain about it and make claims that Oda is making Jimbe stronger or weaker than he should be. How Oda settles it is how it's always meant to be.
And the point was that they've become shadows of their former selves. With Moria we even get a very adequate physical representation of that, and statements from characters that he's become too weak to even be of use to the WG.
I can see Crocodile at MF time being better than at Alabasta. I can also see Post time Skip Crocodile be way better. Each should be judged at a time. Alabasta Crocodile is not as strong as a YC, not even close.
His ability to combat someone like Whitebeard. It's to be noted by the way that he starts off so weak that he does not even get close to harming a sleeping Whitebeard, or even connecting with him, which i would not consider YC level performance. He get's better and eventually he ends up becoming at least somewhat of a threat. He then grows stronger as he joins one of Whitebeard's divisions and takes action in the NW alongside them, and eventually becomes a Division Commander.
And the point was that they've become shadows of their former selves. With Moria we even get a very adequate physical representation of that, and statements from characters that he's become too weak to even be of use to the WG.
I can see Crocodile at MF time being better than at Alabasta. I can also see Post time Skip Crocodile be way better. Each should be judged at a time. Alabasta Crocodile is not as strong as a YC, not even close.
His ability to combat someone like Whitebeard. It's to be noted by the way that he starts off so weak that he does not even get close to harming a sleeping Whitebeard, or even connecting with him, which i would not consider YC level performance. He get's better and eventually he ends up becoming at least somewhat of a threat. He then grows stronger as he joins one of Whitebeard's divisions and takes action in the NW alongside them, and eventually becomes a Division Commander.
I just ask myself if Jinbe is such a big deal why haven't he got a muc higher bounty after WCI or even in FI said to need Luffy to protect FI after seeking Yonkou protection first.
Jinbe is a beast but do not make him some high level NW pirate. If he would be he wouldn't need all the stuff he has done so far.
And saying that Ace hasn't become stronger after his fight with Jinbe is such bullshit. It's like saying Luffy and Jinbe will have the same growth rate.
And funny saying Jinbe having all this awesome feats is just saying Sanji has to step up but no one doubts Zoro.
If we go by feats Jinbe >> Zoro as well but seriously... NO ONE should doubt that Zoro is or will be clearly above Jinbe soon
And I said it numerous of times. M3 isn't just about power but about a certain them they have.
And Jinbe no matter how you twist it isn't fitting. Franky would fit in more and we know how it turned out.
Jinbe is a beast but do not make him some high level NW pirate. If he would be he wouldn't need all the stuff he has done so far.
And saying that Ace hasn't become stronger after his fight with Jinbe is such bullshit. It's like saying Luffy and Jinbe will have the same growth rate.
And funny saying Jinbe having all this awesome feats is just saying Sanji has to step up but no one doubts Zoro.
If we go by feats Jinbe >> Zoro as well but seriously... NO ONE should doubt that Zoro is or will be clearly above Jinbe soon
And I said it numerous of times. M3 isn't just about power but about a certain them they have.
And Jinbe no matter how you twist it isn't fitting. Franky would fit in more and we know how it turned out.
Jinbei a beast! Nobodies doubting that Jinbei is a beast. With that being said, everyone who brings up blocking Big Moms Sword, is being purposefully ignorant to the facts of that situations. We know that similar to Luffy. Big Mom seems to have a mythical energy level when she’s being well fed. The Big Mom Jinbei blocked, was a much weaker extremely emaciated characters. Then to top it all off he uses an extremely situational attack to actually end the confrontation, after literally flooding the deck of the Sunny.
Jinbei can’t replicate that single feat, and we’ve actually seen that he can’t replicate that feat. Take away being literally surrounded by water, give Big Mom a proper meal. Then Suddenly the dude can barely shoulder throw Big Mom a couple feet, then has Robin literally do all the work of BFRing Big Mom for the time being.
This isn’t “Down playing” Jinbei's feat. It’s acknowledging that in the grandeur context of the series. There are things that enabled Jinbei to not be flatlined by Big Mom, that couldn’t be replicated at any given time.
For me that’s the major one, Yes let’s discuss Akainu burning a hole in Jinbei, and searing his hands. That right there’s a extremely impressive feat. This ain’t Aokiji, who might’ve let Jinbei live in that circumstance. Naw the dude went in to kill Luffy, and by extension Jinbei and failed.
Jinbei can’t replicate that single feat, and we’ve actually seen that he can’t replicate that feat. Take away being literally surrounded by water, give Big Mom a proper meal. Then Suddenly the dude can barely shoulder throw Big Mom a couple feet, then has Robin literally do all the work of BFRing Big Mom for the time being.
This isn’t “Down playing” Jinbei's feat. It’s acknowledging that in the grandeur context of the series. There are things that enabled Jinbei to not be flatlined by Big Mom, that couldn’t be replicated at any given time.
For me that’s the major one, Yes let’s discuss Akainu burning a hole in Jinbei, and searing his hands. That right there’s a extremely impressive feat. This ain’t Aokiji, who might’ve let Jinbei live in that circumstance. Naw the dude went in to kill Luffy, and by extension Jinbei and failed.
I would place Jinbe around YC3 level. Pre-RS Sanji is around Perospero level, I think. Pre-Enma Zoro would be around YC4/Snack level. With their new power up, I think Zoro is either YC3 or YC2.5 level while Sanji is YC3/YC3.5 level. Of course there’s no solid evidence to defend my claim but that’s my feeling.
You can think they are relevant but they are not.
Jinbe doesnt usually fight mid-air and protects Luffy at the same time, it is not relevant to his PL.
As I said, you are picking irrelevant situations to make him look bad, on purpose.
There is nothing Oda can prove about that, that's a fact, it was a one-off circumstance which doesnt change Jinbe's PL.
And again, you are forgetting Moriah starting MF war while not being recovered from TB events plus defeat from Jinbe during MF...
We never saw Moriah at his best due to circumstances and you're scaling him based on it without realizing that he's stronger than it looks. Alabasta and MF Crocodile are one and the same, the only difference is that in MF he isnt facing the MC and doesnt have to lose.
Why not? Because he lost to MC? As if that ever represented someone's true worth lol... You see their true worth when they are not vs MC.
Because Morgans attributed it all to Luffy, what's he responsible for and what he isnt, a thing you should know.
Seeking protection for Fishman Island from a name that instills fear is perfectly logical since people fear a lot more someone who sits on top of Yonko organization than someone who isnt. Jinbe IS a high level NW pirate, you just dont understand power of organizations.
Why is it BS? What grew about Luffy vs Doflamingo or vs Cracker? Nothing. Nothing grew about Ace either.
Forget Zoro, he is irrelevant to Sanji's power level but somehow whenever you got no answers you grab onto Zoro...
If you read my thread about Zoro, you should notice that he is likely a top tier since the start of New World.
Sanji outshone Franky fair and square, received a power-up while Franky didnt. Still, Franky took out 2 CP9 agents, just like Luffy.
The entire crew will show it's worth in Wano, even if there are no 1vs1s but we should get a clear image what each of them are capable.
Jinbe doesnt usually fight mid-air and protects Luffy at the same time, it is not relevant to his PL.
As I said, you are picking irrelevant situations to make him look bad, on purpose.
There is nothing Oda can prove about that, that's a fact, it was a one-off circumstance which doesnt change Jinbe's PL.
And again, you are forgetting Moriah starting MF war while not being recovered from TB events plus defeat from Jinbe during MF...
We never saw Moriah at his best due to circumstances and you're scaling him based on it without realizing that he's stronger than it looks. Alabasta and MF Crocodile are one and the same, the only difference is that in MF he isnt facing the MC and doesnt have to lose.
Why not? Because he lost to MC? As if that ever represented someone's true worth lol... You see their true worth when they are not vs MC.
Because Morgans attributed it all to Luffy, what's he responsible for and what he isnt, a thing you should know.
Seeking protection for Fishman Island from a name that instills fear is perfectly logical since people fear a lot more someone who sits on top of Yonko organization than someone who isnt. Jinbe IS a high level NW pirate, you just dont understand power of organizations.
Why is it BS? What grew about Luffy vs Doflamingo or vs Cracker? Nothing. Nothing grew about Ace either.
Forget Zoro, he is irrelevant to Sanji's power level but somehow whenever you got no answers you grab onto Zoro...
If you read my thread about Zoro, you should notice that he is likely a top tier since the start of New World.
Sanji outshone Franky fair and square, received a power-up while Franky didnt. Still, Franky took out 2 CP9 agents, just like Luffy.
The entire crew will show it's worth in Wano, even if there are no 1vs1s but we should get a clear image what each of them are capable.
I'm ready to accept that i'm wrong if Oda's handling of Jimbe going forward says so.
It would be pretty funny if you start arguing against Oda telling him that he does not know what those feats are supposed to mean, in case things don't go your way
I fully support you mailing him complaints on this matter and starting a debate with the author of the manga we are discussing
It would be pretty funny if you start arguing against Oda telling him that he does not know what those feats are supposed to mean, in case things don't go your way
I fully support you mailing him complaints on this matter and starting a debate with the author of the manga we are discussing
Sanji got an power up while Jinbe haven't. Sanji pre power up was tagged at the beginning of the NW with Jinbe while on the same hand wasn't surprised by Luffy and his growth like Jinbe.
Sanji in the future as far more room to grow compared to Jinbe
But hey Zoro is top tier since the NW.
And yeah nothing grew about Luffy.
So let me guess. Nothing grew about Luffy from Kuro to Crocodile. He hasn't used gears against Crocodile.
So Luffy pre gewrs was already Shichibukai level and NW veteran because Jinbe is.
BTW
Sanji tanked a Jinbe and Luffy punch at the same time
Do not get me wrong. But you are spinning things a little bit much. At one hand you bring feats to say Jinbe so super cool but on the other hand you say naaaah Zoro is top tier without feats.
By feats alone Jinbe > Luffy. And we know it makes no sense. Same as for feats Franky prior to EL was > even Zoro and Sanji. But as you said... They got power ups. Strange thing as they got some right now as well... While Jinbe won't
PS
Bookmarked and TickTock.
Sanji in the future as far more room to grow compared to Jinbe
But hey Zoro is top tier since the NW.
And yeah nothing grew about Luffy.
So let me guess. Nothing grew about Luffy from Kuro to Crocodile. He hasn't used gears against Crocodile.
So Luffy pre gewrs was already Shichibukai level and NW veteran because Jinbe is.
BTW
Sanji tanked a Jinbe and Luffy punch at the same time
Do not get me wrong. But you are spinning things a little bit much. At one hand you bring feats to say Jinbe so super cool but on the other hand you say naaaah Zoro is top tier without feats.
By feats alone Jinbe > Luffy. And we know it makes no sense. Same as for feats Franky prior to EL was > even Zoro and Sanji. But as you said... They got power ups. Strange thing as they got some right now as well... While Jinbe won't
PS
Bookmarked and TickTock.
I'm ready to accept that i'm wrong if Oda's handling of Jimbe going forward says so.
It would be pretty funny if you start arguing against Oda telling him that he does not know what those feats are supposed to mean, in case things don't go your way
I fully support you mailing him complaints on this matter and starting a debate with the author of the manga we are discussing
It would be pretty funny if you start arguing against Oda telling him that he does not know what those feats are supposed to mean, in case things don't go your way
I fully support you mailing him complaints on this matter and starting a debate with the author of the manga we are discussing
Sanji will need a couple of PUs more to surpass Jinbe. Jinbe's combat style is effective against anyone, Sanji's isnt.
Hell, Franky's lasers are more effective than Sanji's kicks... Other crew members have attacks more effective than Sanji...
The future in One Piece's time will be over before they age one year, they have the same time to grow.
If you are counting on Jinbe declining because he will reach old age, sorry to disappoint you but he wont age even a year.
Zoro's power progress is easy to guess, I explained it all in detail in my thread.
Exactly, nothing grew on Luffy but people think he grew just because Rayleigh said it when Luffy was supposed to get FS...
Yes, nothing grew about Luffy all the way until Lucci, that's where his abilities became obsolete and PU was needed.
Luffy pre gears wasnt Shichibukai level, Crocodile was dumbed down to Luffy's level, a complete misunderstanding of the story...
lol, you got me with that Sanji tanking Luffy and Jinbe punch.
Zoro has a set power level to be, Sanji doesnt, dont compare the two...
Jinbe isnt far off from Luffy, people think there are huge gaps while there aren't.
Sanji got a power-up now which was needed since long time, to fix his issue of being fragile.
Jinbe doesnt need it, he isnt fragile plus it is first time we will actually see him display his full repertoire.
I am ticktock-ing too, for all the Zoro doubters.
I understand you, I would be worried about Sanji too if he was my favorite character.
Sanji will need a couple of PUs more to surpass Jinbe. Jinbe's combat style is effective against anyone, Sanji's isnt.
Hell, Franky's lasers are more effective than Sanji's kicks... Other crew members have attacks more effective than Sanji...
Sanji will need a couple of PUs more to surpass Jinbe. Jinbe's combat style is effective against anyone, Sanji's isnt.
Hell, Franky's lasers are more effective than Sanji's kicks... Other crew members have attacks more effective than Sanji...
Ok it’s not old age. It’s the fact that Jinbei has shown very little increase in strength since his days fighting Ace dude. Whereas in hours Luffy Zoro and Sanji all went from being much weaker then the CP9 members. To all three beating the heavy hitters of the CP9 organization. Yes that’s the most extreme example of their growth rate. But even still. In the matter of 2 years they went from struggling against a single pacifista. To one shotting it (both Zoro and Sanji cripples it). We’ve seen that the monster trio are absurdly fast growth in ways that would make Jinbei look positively glacial by comparison.
So you like Zoro, and can’t wait to see EOS Zoro. That’s all fine and good, but you’ve been blatantly ignoring the growth rate of Luffy and Sanji
Zoro also pointed out that they had been getting stronger throughout the entire series up until that point. But hey who cares right.
Not even close. Zoro is the most destructive, by far. Nami's first lightning strike did nothing to BM.
It is because he is very powerful, such characters dont show growth.
EL power-ups came out of nowhere, we all know that. There was no preparation, training or anything that would lead to them.
Jinbe has yet to hit his limits in a proper fight in the present, Oda has a blank card with him. Oda can make him as powerful as needed.
Current Zoro is not much different than EoS Zoro. Sanji's and Luffy's progress isnt equal to Zoro's.
They have used their EL PUs as modes and they became obsolete to the point that they developed something new, not a case with Zoro.
If you paid attention, that was said right before W7, to justify the EL PUs coming out of nowhere.
Same shit Rayleigh told Luffy when he is supposed to get FS while two previous fights gave him nothing.
It is because he is very powerful, such characters dont show growth.
EL power-ups came out of nowhere, we all know that. There was no preparation, training or anything that would lead to them.
Jinbe has yet to hit his limits in a proper fight in the present, Oda has a blank card with him. Oda can make him as powerful as needed.
Current Zoro is not much different than EoS Zoro. Sanji's and Luffy's progress isnt equal to Zoro's.
They have used their EL PUs as modes and they became obsolete to the point that they developed something new, not a case with Zoro.
If you paid attention, that was said right before W7, to justify the EL PUs coming out of nowhere.
Same shit Rayleigh told Luffy when he is supposed to get FS while two previous fights gave him nothing.
