General & Others Luffy is LOSING what makes him special with the whole alliance crap
- Thread starter Sadistic Senpai
- Start date
That would actually devalue the story and throw away consistency. If luffy put up a better fight against kaido, like he did against lucci/croc then I’d agree but this is not the case.
It would be terrible terrible writting if luffy siloed.
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So he should be above him now? Cause roger never beat a top tier let alone a yonko/admiral. And you want a luffy that got severely trashed PHYSICALLY to just come out and shit out an asspull to allow him to do that ?
Man am I glad you aren’t writting this story. Thank god oda is consistent in his power levels.
Stick to fairy tail.
It would be terrible terrible writting if luffy siloed.
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So he should be above him now? Cause roger never beat a top tier let alone a yonko/admiral. And you want a luffy that got severely trashed PHYSICALLY to just come out and shit out an asspull to allow him to do that ?
Man am I glad you aren’t writting this story. Thank god oda is consistent in his power levels.
Stick to fairy tail.
Beating Kaidou is not everything. The Beast Pirates and BM Pirates exists for Luffy's team and alliance to take out. Just giving the final blow to Kaidou, without Luffy participating in other major fight would be bad writing and undermining Luffy's role.
So if Luffy not beating King or Queen solo, or even stalemating full-power BM solo, he should 1 vs 1 Kaidou in the final rounds.
So if Luffy not beating King or Queen solo, or even stalemating full-power BM solo, he should 1 vs 1 Kaidou in the final rounds.
Yeah how dare the new gen besides luffy make their mark and start their legend! This should be the luffy show! Even tho oda kept hammering home that the old gen is falling to the new gen and the importance of kidd/law(a D by the way)/zoro.
Why do you want luffy to be so far above the rest is beyond me mate.
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Yep and I told you that he should go above him now? Cause that’s what you guys want.
Why do you want luffy to be so far above the rest is beyond me mate.
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Yep and I told you that he should go above him now? Cause that’s what you guys want.
Lucci at first, tag team with zoro
Thriller bark Oats tag team
Magellan, tag team with mr3
Doffy tag team
Cracker tag team
Katakuri tag team( brulee helping him escape to rest, kat stabbing his fucking stomach)
So already the story disagrees with your perception of luffy always fighting Alone.
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How above? Everything indicates they weren’t far above any current top tier as roger considered admirals to be threats that the ace novel considers kaido to be stronger than healthy whitebeard before ace joins, meaning near prime,etc. And I told you roger/wb didn’t beat any top tier ever.
So with luffy besting argably the stronger one right now 1vs1 you want him to surpass roger already?
Thriller bark Oats tag team
Magellan, tag team with mr3
Doffy tag team
Cracker tag team
Katakuri tag team( brulee helping him escape to rest, kat stabbing his fucking stomach)
So already the story disagrees with your perception of luffy always fighting Alone.
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How above? Everything indicates they weren’t far above any current top tier as roger considered admirals to be threats that the ace novel considers kaido to be stronger than healthy whitebeard before ace joins, meaning near prime,etc. And I told you roger/wb didn’t beat any top tier ever.
So with luffy besting argably the stronger one right now 1vs1 you want him to surpass roger already?
The fight against Lucci is exactly the example of winning by powerup, though. Lucci fodderized Luffy, and Luffy beat Lucci afterwards after inventing G2-3.
It would be proper for Luffy to solo Kaidou in final rounds, since he must prepare for Akainu-BB-Imu after this. It would be bad writing for Luffy after:
-unrevealed max potential FS and AdCoA which Hyogoro firmly believe he would be able to fight BM comfortable once he masters CoA
- unrevealed harmonization of AdCoA+Gomu2 (New Gear?)
yet,
- and he hadnt get his mid-fight powerup. Haki blooms in extreme battles. This is the pinnacle of extreme. This 1vs1 fight provide the extreme battle Luffy need to be Kaidou's equal.
Even with the alliance being outnumbered and run out of chouce to gang-up/party team boss raid, and even with with all those, revealed and hidden powerups and trump cards, Luffy still
must resort to 100 vs 1-ing Kaidou even in the final rounds, and he hope to even compete with the ones like BB and Imu without an even greater asspull? To become PK? it would be the worst of writing. The story of babysitting.
It would be proper for Luffy to solo Kaidou in final rounds, since he must prepare for Akainu-BB-Imu after this. It would be bad writing for Luffy after:
-unrevealed max potential FS and AdCoA which Hyogoro firmly believe he would be able to fight BM comfortable once he masters CoA
- unrevealed harmonization of AdCoA+Gomu2 (New Gear?)
yet,
- and he hadnt get his mid-fight powerup. Haki blooms in extreme battles. This is the pinnacle of extreme. This 1vs1 fight provide the extreme battle Luffy need to be Kaidou's equal.
Even with the alliance being outnumbered and run out of chouce to gang-up/party team boss raid, and even with with all those, revealed and hidden powerups and trump cards, Luffy still
must resort to 100 vs 1-ing Kaidou even in the final rounds, and he hope to even compete with the ones like BB and Imu without an even greater asspull? To become PK? it would be the worst of writing. The story of babysitting.
Not really, let me greak it down for you.
Lucci was made to bleed and forced into hybrid by base luffy( who mind you was already working on/had an idea of g2-3) and didnt one shot him at all, simply threw him away with luffy being fine and dandy stuck between buildings.
Kaido while inebriated took on luffy who this time went all out( as opposed to the lucci case) and took no damage while not guarding with haki, then procceeded to very casually SPEED BLITZ and ONESHOT luffy.Esablishing a very very clear difference in physical attributes alone, the lucci case doesnt even compare.
What happens now if kaido decides to block/move/dodge/attack while luffy is attacking him? What happens if he gets the least bit serious.
What luffy learned now is the ability to damage him, he himself said that his training in prison was to get stronger if only for a little bit. He isnt magically as physically strong as him or as fast or as durable. Itd be like a raid boss battle, there is a reason law is there for room and shambles the people fighting kaido and luffy learned fs, to dodge him while whittling him down.
Kaido will start taking out the people against him little by little until its just luffy/kidd and him imo, as i do not believe kidd( a conqueror and someone headstrong like luffy) will go down before luffy does, this arc is crucial to establish the new gen(sns+ luffy) as the new major players in the new world. And i firmly believe that kidd who was portrayed equally with luffy in prison will continue to be done justice.
Blackbeard currently is weaker than kaido by his own admission or alteast we can infer that(calling him a dreaded monster), he will get stronger himself same as luffy.
I want luffy/kidd/law/zoro to come out of this arc at the lvl of old rayleigh. Then have luffy have a fight against an admiral or something next arc, win and solidify himself as a legit top tier. Then have his fight against bb who should be a bit above yonko/admiral by then.
Thats how i see it and thats how it would make sense.
Not randomly getting asspull powerups out of the nether and soloing kaido. It would also help keep powercreep in check by the way and not turn this show into dbz, something the author has done well so far as he respected the poweer ceiling yonko/admiral and decided to scrap his idea that yami teach would be as strong as 3 admirals combined.
Lucci was made to bleed and forced into hybrid by base luffy( who mind you was already working on/had an idea of g2-3) and didnt one shot him at all, simply threw him away with luffy being fine and dandy stuck between buildings.
Kaido while inebriated took on luffy who this time went all out( as opposed to the lucci case) and took no damage while not guarding with haki, then procceeded to very casually SPEED BLITZ and ONESHOT luffy.Esablishing a very very clear difference in physical attributes alone, the lucci case doesnt even compare.
What happens now if kaido decides to block/move/dodge/attack while luffy is attacking him? What happens if he gets the least bit serious.
What luffy learned now is the ability to damage him, he himself said that his training in prison was to get stronger if only for a little bit. He isnt magically as physically strong as him or as fast or as durable. Itd be like a raid boss battle, there is a reason law is there for room and shambles the people fighting kaido and luffy learned fs, to dodge him while whittling him down.
Kaido will start taking out the people against him little by little until its just luffy/kidd and him imo, as i do not believe kidd( a conqueror and someone headstrong like luffy) will go down before luffy does, this arc is crucial to establish the new gen(sns+ luffy) as the new major players in the new world. And i firmly believe that kidd who was portrayed equally with luffy in prison will continue to be done justice.
Blackbeard currently is weaker than kaido by his own admission or alteast we can infer that(calling him a dreaded monster), he will get stronger himself same as luffy.
I want luffy/kidd/law/zoro to come out of this arc at the lvl of old rayleigh. Then have luffy have a fight against an admiral or something next arc, win and solidify himself as a legit top tier. Then have his fight against bb who should be a bit above yonko/admiral by then.
Thats how i see it and thats how it would make sense.
Not randomly getting asspull powerups out of the nether and soloing kaido. It would also help keep powercreep in check by the way and not turn this show into dbz, something the author has done well so far as he respected the poweer ceiling yonko/admiral and decided to scrap his idea that yami teach would be as strong as 3 admirals combined.
And he said he'll bring down Big Mom at end of FMI. Then had BM's ship chase them at Dressrosa. Then she even kidnapped his left hand man and he had a whole arc dedicated with her. She's had presence in every single arc of the New World one way or another. She's been reigning as an emperor for decades, so longer than Kaido. Luffy himself told her directly he wants to take her down.
So Big Mom being Luffy's big fight makes way more sense than Kaido.
So Big Mom being Luffy's big fight makes way more sense than Kaido.
So your perspective is about power gap. I'll try to comment about it.
Lucci wasnt forced to go hybrid by base Luffy. Base Lucci literally steamrolled through any tricks Luffy used. Lucci said in chapter 348 "its a pity but ill show something interesting" and go leopard. Luffy punch him to bleed, yes the little bleeding. Luffy's G3 elephant gun make Kaidou go white-eyed.
Kaidou using a named attack wasnt very casual, he was showing some degree of seriousness. And Luffy's known powerup is exactly what he needs to magically bypass Kaidou's physical durability. It allows Luffy to hurt Kaidou just like water allows Luffy to hurt Crocodile.
And about Kaidou's speed and durability, i agree about you. The gap is bigger than Lucci vs Lucci. But that's why Luffy must win this. Its for all the stakes. Luffy has to do it in order to be worthy for PK title contender. Lucci has this reputation that made Kuma surprise about his defeat "Who would've thought that Rob Lucci would be defeated?" And Crocodile and also recently Katakuri also had that untouchable unbeatable vibe to them in the respective arcs. So this is the real WSC, the real hurdle of life and death for Luffy.
My point being, powerlevel-wise Luffy must achieve the impossible, and if he gains this much shown powerup to the point that Yanato (first-hand witness to Kaidou's power) acknowledged Luffy as really strong even without being serious, even without showing his known powerups, Luffy 1vs1 Kaidou is not impossible anymore for me. And the more important thing about my view, is that Luffy is not worthy to become PK if he can't ever manage to become Kaidou's equal in this arc, the arc where Oda place Kaidou as Luffy's obstacle.
If Zoro has Mihawk the WSS as his defining moment.
in order to redeem the past writing, Kaidou the WSC should be one of Luffy's defining moments. Afterall Mihawk said being PK is harder than WSS, and Luffy also said if Luffy couldnt manage to beat each Admiral or even Yonkou standing in his way, he can never be pirate King. This is the standard Luffy set for himself. If the powergap is huge then its the MCs job to close it by any means necessary.
No, Luffy wouldnt become powercreep even if he is able to beat Kaidou 1vs1 in final rounds. Its not all rounds. Most likely Oda would weaken Kaidou first like with GK to Doflamingo. But that kind of powerlevel (if Luffy 1v1 Kaidou in final round) is still comparable to admirals or Yonkous, so the Fifth Yonkou becomes legit real, and BB and Imu give the next level for Luffy. Thats proper pacing and power progression for me, instead of Luffy having to 100v1 Kaidou in this arc and after this he like have to solo BM and Kizaru and Weevil and BB and Kong and Imu one after another. That would be the ultimate of asspulls.
That is my view about how Luffy's powerlevel gap.
If you want to discuss about the worstgen's moments to shine, then BM-BM Pirates-King-Queen-Jack Tobi Roppo etc can be Kidd-Law-etc moments too, there are so many strong enemies for the alliance to shine, it doesnt have to be Kaidou especially final round.
Lucci wasnt forced to go hybrid by base Luffy. Base Lucci literally steamrolled through any tricks Luffy used. Lucci said in chapter 348 "its a pity but ill show something interesting" and go leopard. Luffy punch him to bleed, yes the little bleeding. Luffy's G3 elephant gun make Kaidou go white-eyed.
Kaidou using a named attack wasnt very casual, he was showing some degree of seriousness. And Luffy's known powerup is exactly what he needs to magically bypass Kaidou's physical durability. It allows Luffy to hurt Kaidou just like water allows Luffy to hurt Crocodile.
And about Kaidou's speed and durability, i agree about you. The gap is bigger than Lucci vs Lucci. But that's why Luffy must win this. Its for all the stakes. Luffy has to do it in order to be worthy for PK title contender. Lucci has this reputation that made Kuma surprise about his defeat "Who would've thought that Rob Lucci would be defeated?" And Crocodile and also recently Katakuri also had that untouchable unbeatable vibe to them in the respective arcs. So this is the real WSC, the real hurdle of life and death for Luffy.
My point being, powerlevel-wise Luffy must achieve the impossible, and if he gains this much shown powerup to the point that Yanato (first-hand witness to Kaidou's power) acknowledged Luffy as really strong even without being serious, even without showing his known powerups, Luffy 1vs1 Kaidou is not impossible anymore for me. And the more important thing about my view, is that Luffy is not worthy to become PK if he can't ever manage to become Kaidou's equal in this arc, the arc where Oda place Kaidou as Luffy's obstacle.
If Zoro has Mihawk the WSS as his defining moment.
in order to redeem the past writing, Kaidou the WSC should be one of Luffy's defining moments. Afterall Mihawk said being PK is harder than WSS, and Luffy also said if Luffy couldnt manage to beat each Admiral or even Yonkou standing in his way, he can never be pirate King. This is the standard Luffy set for himself. If the powergap is huge then its the MCs job to close it by any means necessary.
No, Luffy wouldnt become powercreep even if he is able to beat Kaidou 1vs1 in final rounds. Its not all rounds. Most likely Oda would weaken Kaidou first like with GK to Doflamingo. But that kind of powerlevel (if Luffy 1v1 Kaidou in final round) is still comparable to admirals or Yonkous, so the Fifth Yonkou becomes legit real, and BB and Imu give the next level for Luffy. Thats proper pacing and power progression for me, instead of Luffy having to 100v1 Kaidou in this arc and after this he like have to solo BM and Kizaru and Weevil and BB and Kong and Imu one after another. That would be the ultimate of asspulls.
That is my view about how Luffy's powerlevel gap.
If you want to discuss about the worstgen's moments to shine, then BM-BM Pirates-King-Queen-Jack Tobi Roppo etc can be Kidd-Law-etc moments too, there are so many strong enemies for the alliance to shine, it doesnt have to be Kaidou especially final round.
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We'll just agree to disagree my friend, imo kaido is the strongest current character, so luffy 1vs1ing him would devalue the rest of the story. And a named attack doesnt mean its not casual by the way.
Gomu gomu no pistol isnt the same as g4 king kong gun.
G3 didnt make kaido go white eye come on now. Kaido sensed him and was looking upwards with his eyes, he was conscious and fine when he asked luffy his name. That scene was to show tension nothing more.
Also you seem to have glossed over the huge gap in strength is still there. Yamato was clearly referring to what we know about luffy, she saw him in g2-3rd but was saying that he had more strength ( the g4 and advcoa), he used advcoa against yamato btw.
And even yamato asked him to join him so that they beat kaido, probably plans to add more people. This argument goes against yours btw,saying that yamato knows kaidos strength first hand and yet asked luffy to join him to fight, didnt ask luffy to fight kaido for him(her).
And, again, kaido was just sitting there drunk out of his mind and taking attacks. What happens if he decides to move/block/guard with haki/attack? What happens when he goes hybrid?
Gomu gomu no pistol isnt the same as g4 king kong gun.
G3 didnt make kaido go white eye come on now. Kaido sensed him and was looking upwards with his eyes, he was conscious and fine when he asked luffy his name. That scene was to show tension nothing more.
Also you seem to have glossed over the huge gap in strength is still there. Yamato was clearly referring to what we know about luffy, she saw him in g2-3rd but was saying that he had more strength ( the g4 and advcoa), he used advcoa against yamato btw.
And even yamato asked him to join him so that they beat kaido, probably plans to add more people. This argument goes against yours btw,saying that yamato knows kaidos strength first hand and yet asked luffy to join him to fight, didnt ask luffy to fight kaido for him(her).
And, again, kaido was just sitting there drunk out of his mind and taking attacks. What happens if he decides to move/block/guard with haki/attack? What happens when he goes hybrid?
Luffy will fight Kaido 1 vs 1 in the final round....even Oars fight started as group ultimately it became Luffy vs Moria 1 vs 1 .....take Doflamingo fight, it started Law+Luffy vs Doffy+Trebol+Bellamy and ultimately it became Luffy vs Doflamingo with both sides going all out......
Kaido fight will be on a bigger scale since he is an emperor
Worst gen vs Kaido
Luffy/Kidd vs Kaido
Luffy vs Kaido 1 vs 1 in the final round...
so either ways Luffy at some point will solo Kaido after everyone fell down like Doflamingo fight...
He takes the burden upon himself like he does everytime when everyone fell down....
So while Luffy defeat Kaido "1 vs 1" in the final round, every worst generation pirate helps him in damaging Kaido
Kaido fight will be on a bigger scale since he is an emperor
Worst gen vs Kaido
Luffy/Kidd vs Kaido
Luffy vs Kaido 1 vs 1 in the final round...
so either ways Luffy at some point will solo Kaido after everyone fell down like Doflamingo fight...
He takes the burden upon himself like he does everytime when everyone fell down....
So while Luffy defeat Kaido "1 vs 1" in the final round, every worst generation pirate helps him in damaging Kaido