General & Others Next Straw Hat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[ShiShiShi]

If Oda told you that Strawhats don't have dreams. Would you believe him ?

No, because he would never say this. Dreams were established in Chapter 1, and they continue to hold importance in the story.

Careful. Yamato NEVER asked the strawhat or Luffy to join. All of her interactions regarding this matter where affirmations, not questions. Its very important in term of narration.

Because what happens is actually a subversion.

Dude was so determined on finding reasons for his faves to join he completely ignored Yamato’s introduction

The level of delusion is mindblowing

This might be the stupidest thing you’ve said @Logiko

The way in which an author writes is not the only thing you should consider, but their feelings as well.

The words you read, the actions and interactions the characters make; they all came from the author’s mind. In every work you see there is a bit of the author’s feelings mixed in, it’s what makes every story unique. (Here is a Reddit thread containing a lot of Oda’s statements.)

I seem to remember Oda saying that he wanted to write a manga he would want to read, not just the other way around. He isn’t only writing for us, but for himself as well.

To say that you don’t care about the words of an author if it contradicts what you believe to be true is selfish and ridiculous.

 

[Warback]

Again, same thing, not a question, an affirmation. And a subversive one.



Then prove me. AGAIN, that my proof of presence of those pillar in the story are non conclusive.



That's cute.

What's cute is you still not understanding what burden of proof is, you say you've proven your pillars objectively, everyone rejects that concept intrinsically, so you just stand their asserting " my pillars are right, prove me wrong".

Sigran took one hour to destroy 2 of your pillars by your own admission, the thing you were so sure were correct for ages. Most people don't want to wage in a 130 paragraph text drop discussing your very bias perspective of the story, because it's worth as much as the hobo down the street, to "prove you wrong".

I asked you to show a shred of empthaty and understand people disagree with your OPINION, and you are unable to process that basic human capability.

Like there's a reason everyone is making fun of your shinning nakama whatever the fuck it is, it's because it's ridicoulus, how would any human being counter such a concept, when it's purely made up in your head, and you arbitarly decide what constitutes an example or not?

Ok i have a new pillar it's called "inspiring nakama distraction", in which, all nakama crewmates have distracted a villain with or without the aid of Luffy. This is now an objective pillar that's true and you have to prove that it doesn't exist.

Go for it

 

[Sigran101]

What's cute is you still not understanding what burden of proof is, you say you've proven your pillars objectively, everyone rejects that concept intrinsically, so you just stand their asserting " my pillars are right, prove me wrong".

Sigran took one hour to destroy 2 of your pillars by your own admission, the thing you were so sure were correct for ages. Most people don't want to wage in a 130 paragraph text drop discussing your very bias perspective of the story, because it's worth as much as the hobo down the street, to "prove you wrong".

I asked you to show a shred of empthaty and understand people disagree with your OPINION, and you are unable to process that basic human capability.

Like there's a reason everyone is making fun of your shinning nakama whatever the fuck it is, it's because it's ridicoulus, how would any human being counter such a concept, when it's purely made up in your head, and you arbitarly decide what constitutes an example or not?

Ok i have a new pillar it's called "inspiring nakama distraction", in which, all nakama crewmates have distracted a villain with or without the aid of Luffy. This is now an objective pillar that's true and you have to prove that it doesn't exist.

Go for it

I hope Carrot somehow still joins for people like you. It's annoying that rational Carrot fans still have to see your character get shit on a year after the fight ended just because one delusional psycho won't give up.

 

[Logiko]

No because he would never say this. Dreams were established in Chapter 1, and they continue to hold importance in the story.

"he would never says this".. Well I have the same feeling. :)

Dude was so determined on finding reasons for his faves to join he completely ignored Yamato’s introduction

Can you show me were Yamato asked (and not affirm) if she can ask the crew ? Please ?

To say that you don’t care about the words of an author if it contradicts what you believe to be true is selfish and ridiculous.

Let me rephrase because I can understand that my sentence is a little bit harsh:

When it comes to analysing the story, ONLY the story matters. You can off course have extra indication on why the author makes that or this choice BUT even the author is sometimes unaware of his own treatment of the story.

Let's take a simple example. Star Trek (the old serie). Do you think that if we were to tell the authors of the shows that they are sexist, they would agree with you ?

Of course not. Simply because even with great writers, there are things that they might miss. In this case, they were the most progressive writers, still, they were also sexists.

And if you don't believe me, take a look at the original series. Its great.. but damn... its sexist as F.

So, when I say that Oda might not even be aware that he constructed Carrot like a strawhat, I mean that he might have interiozed the process so much that he is reproducing that on other character without being aware of it. therefore and looking at all the construction parameters I have gathered, if Oda tells me that "no, Carrot was not constructed like a strawhat" my reply would be.. Dude.. you are full of BS and you don't even know it.

But this is unlikely.

What's cute is you still not understanding what burden of proof is, you say you've proven your pillars objectively, everyone rejects that concept intrinsically, so you just stand their asserting " my pillars are right, prove me wrong".

haha you stil haven't understood that we are in a reversal of the burden of proof. My burden is done mate, I have given proof. You just need to check my blog its here. Now, its YOUR TURN to prove that those proof are not conclusive.

Damn, poster trying to play sceptics..

so you just stand their asserting " my pillars are right, prove me wrong".

No. I say, "Ive given you proof, debunk them"

Sigran took one hour to destroy 2 of your pillars by your own admission,

And he managed to make me rewrite two of them. Which means that you can actually disprove my reasonning. Now, you need to do that for ALL OF THEM to prove my entire reasonning wrong.

Good luck

I asked you to show a shred of empthaty and understand people disagree with your OPINION, and you are unable to process that basic human capability.

Boy. Between me and you, I'm the only one who said "you are right, I'm wrong here" and who actually listen to others and came back multiple time on my argumentations to make it more logical. So have a little bit of self reflection and self respect here and quit trying to patronize me.

Like there's a reason everyone is making fun of your shinning nakama whatever the fuck it is, it's because it's ridicoulus

No. Simply because you guys don't understand it and don't like the guy who is confident about his reasonning. This is the classic case of high school ignorant teenagers who bullies the guys who is making his having good Grades.

Ok i have a new pillar it's called "inspiring nakama distraction"

Fine. Why not. Explain it to me. Explains who it affect the story and why all the strawhats have it in common and I might add it to the list.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Here is a Reddit thread containing a lot of Oda’s statements.

-Animation Logbook: Claims that people swarming together into an unstoppable force is a major theme of One Piece.
-Super Kabuki 2: A core theme of One Piece is people desperately helping each other.

Now we know why he loves to draw pointless running scenes

 

[Warback]

I hope Carrot somehow still joins for people like you. It's annoying that rational Carrot fans still have to see your character get shit on a year after the fight ended just because one delusional psycho won't give up.

cheers mate, i'm for a 13 SH pipe dream so i gladly welcome Carrot/Yamato/Vivi maybe Bonney/etc, but i'm starting to become more of Jimbei meme "crew's full" kind of guy.

Post automatically merged: Oct 28, 2023

No. Simply because you guys don't understand it and don't like the guy who is confident about his reasonning. This is the classic case of high school ignorant teenagers who bullies the guys who is making his having good Grades.

Fine. Why not. Explain it to me. Explains who it affect the story and why all the strawhats have it in common and I might add it to the list.

It's self evident, it's something all SH and candidates did, they distracted a villain with with or without Luffy's help, ok now like you said.

haha you stil haven't understood that we are in a reversal of the burden of proof. My burden is done mate, I have given proof. You just need to check my blog its here. Now, its YOUR TURN to prove that those proof are not conclusive.

I declared my "fabulastic nakama distraction moment" to be objectively true, prove me wrong.

 

[KonyaruIchi]

Cook that fraud

 

[Logiko]

It's self evident, it's something all SH and candidates did, they distracted a villain with with or without Luffy's help, ok now like you said.

And why is this important for the narration and the characterization of the strawhats ?

I declared my "fabulastic nakama distraction moment" to be objectively true, prove me wrong.

We are not there yet.

 

[ShiShiShi]

We are not there yet.

He just said this was something all Straw Hats and candidates did.

 

[Logiko]

He just said this was something all Straw Hats and candidates did.

He first needs to explains how this parameter is a parameter of construction of the strawhat.

 

[Monkey D Al]

When it comes to analysing the story, ONLY the story matters. You can off course have extra indication on why the author makes that or this choice BUT even the author is sometimes unaware of his own treatment of the story.

This is bullshit. If the writer of a story says, I wanted to convey this by writing that. That’s the meaning of his story. If Oda would say that Carrot was never constructed and never meant to be a Strawhat than that is the truth and all story analyzing won’t change it. It would also be the same if he made that statement about Yamato.
The difference is, we would admit defeat and say that Yamato was not meant to join. While you would call Oda a liar and saying he doesn’t understand his own story, and can’t read the subtext.
Logiko take emotions out of this and use reasoning. Actual reasoning.

 

[Logiko]

This is bullshit. If the writer of a story says, I wanted to convey this by writing that. That’s the meaning of his story

In reality its not always true.

Let's take super-hero movie as a example. The meaning of those story is that usually, the super-hero will be doing what is right. Still.. in the majority of those stories, the super Hero is just helping to maintain the status co and do not really do the right thing.

This video explains this principle really well:

This shows that even if the author might have a good idea of their story, they might be missing the entire big picture that they are actually writing.

If Oda would say that Carrot was never constructed and never meant to be a Strawhat than that is the truth

Problem is that there are two different assertion in your sentence here:

1. Carrot was never constructed like a strawhat
2. Carrot was never meant to joing the strawhat.

Here, the difference is that you have on 1, something that the author construct consciously or not and in 2, something that the authoer wants.

I never said that I would deny what Oda wanted. Meaning if he were to say that Carrot was never meant to join, I woudn't deny that. What I question is the way he constructed the story and the element that might have made their way in without Oda being aware of it.

And its the same with Yamato. On the difference that I can actually prove that Yamato was never meant to join because of the way the narration is crafted (subversive affirmation)

Logiko take emotions out of this and use reasoning. Actual reasoning.

This is what you don't understand. My reasonning is pure logic.

I had Spock as a mentor my dear.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Damn imagine being so in denial. It's so unhealthy too. C4N is so toxic to himself.

 

[Warback]

He first needs to explains how this parameter is a parameter of construction of the strawhat.

How is your nakama shinning whatever a parameter of construction of the strawhats.

 

[ShiShiShi]

This is what you don't understand. My reasonning is pure logic.

I had Spock as a mentor my dear.

Do not bring Spock into this

 

[Warback]

Do not bring Spock into this

What's the thing above cringe? I'ts what i'm experiencing right now

 

[Logiko]

Damn imagine being so in denial. It's so unhealthy too. C4N is so toxic to himself.

If I were in denial I wouldn't ask you to prove my reasonning and evidences wrong :)

How is your nakama shinning whatever a parameter of construction of the strawhats.

Its not only a parameter of construction of a strawhat, its a parameters of characterization. i've explained that in detail HERE :

A shining nakama action is a shonen action related to the post/role on the ship. It can be surprising or subtil but it must be impressive.

I've narrowed down different parameters constructing each shining nakama action for the strawhat:

- The role implies some specifications: (Knowledge of the climat)

- The Character is introduced with a certain capacity for the role in the crew: (A special power or feeling sensing the weather pattern for example)

- The character must face a challenging situation (There is a storm coming)

- The character must overcome a challenging situation with an amazing action by using their specific crewman skills: (the character must predict a storm while being sick)

- This action must get the character out of trouble or make them understand something (The storm was avoided and it was a tornado!)

- An important character present during the action must make an exclamation remark regarding the action (this is a manga trope); ("wow, they predicted such an unpredictible storm while being sick, amazing")


What is important to understand is that the Shining Nakama action take the role of what I call a "manga action" in One Piece.

A manga action (I don't know if it is called differently or not) is a specific and impressive action that makes the character stands out from the rest. For example, here is a manga action in Uchuu Kyoudai that I really appreciate.

Mutta, who wants to become astronaut and therefore a good engineer passes an interview. Too bad for him, the interviewer after discussing the candidates reaches to the conclusion that 3 characters where really distracted during the interview, they decide to shut them down until one of the mentor in the band intervene and say this.

"I actually played a joke on the candidate, I lossened one of the screw that was on the chair's candidate"
"In the group X, three people called my attention"

"The first person noticed the screw instantly but it seemed like he wasn't bothered"
"The second person unitentionally laughed when she noticed and was starteled by herself laughing"
and the third:

THis is what a manga action looks like. It ciment the character into a specific position because of their specific gift or skills. Here, this is the proof of Mutta skill for problem resolution and in engineering skills that he will depict later in the serie.

For the strawhats, this can be seen through their action into their post. And each strawhat have one shining nakama action.

 

[Ravagerblade]

If I were in denial I wouldn't ask you to prove my reasonning and evidences wrong :)



Its not only a parameter of construction of a strawhat, its a parameters of characterization. i've explained that in detail HERE :

We already told you, but you are in denial. It's why we're still here talking about it.

 

[Monkey D Al]

In reality its not always true.

Let's take super-hero movie as a example. The meaning of those story is that usually, the super-hero will be doing what is right. Still.. in the majority of those stories, the super Hero is just helping to maintain the status co and do not really do the right thing.

This video explains this principle really well:

This shows that even if the author might have a good idea of their story, they might be missing the entire big picture that they are actually writing.



Problem is that there are two different assertion in your sentence here:

1. Carrot was never constructed like a strawhat
2. Carrot was never meant to joing the strawhat.

Here, the difference is that you have on 1, something that the author construct consciously or not and in 2, something that the authoer wants.

I never said that I would deny what Oda wanted. Meaning if he were to say that Carrot was never meant to join, I woudn't deny that. What I question is the way he constructed the story and the element that might have made their way in without Oda being aware of it.

And its the same with Yamato. On the difference that I can actually prove that Yamato was never meant to join because of the way the narration is crafted (subversive affirmation)



This is what you don't understand. My reasonning is pure logic.

I had Spock as a mentor my dear.

Firstly I wouldn’t take superhero movies as an example as none of them are original work. Just rewritten by Hollywood writers who don’t know how to write shit and ruin the work of others.
If Oda says that Carrot was never meant to join that means she was not constructed as a strawhat. Also I said constructed as a strawhat, because it is something you say. I don’t think that there is a particular way that the strawhats are constructed. They have a few things in common but that is always the case in a group of people.

 

[Mr. Reloaded]

If I were in denial I wouldn't ask you to prove my reasonning and evidences wrong :)

Except you would. Because that's exactly what people in denial do