General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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I would say the opposite is true if Carrot ended up joining without doing anything throughout entire arc and raid so far it wouldn’t feel in my opinion earned. Sure, carrot did a supportive role throughout previous arc I am not denying that. But, I felt throughout the arc you barley know anything surrounding her character upbringing and the arc is not about her character in comparison to her mentor and sanji. Also the strawhats didn't actually resolve her personal trauma. Characters like kinemon, dogstorm, and Cat viper were able to resolved her problem. So the resolution ends up being it isn't a strawhat doing the work for her. It is a side character that does it for her instead. When Pedro talks about the "dawn" Carrot doesn't mention anything about it. The one character who is talking about it is Yamato she knows of it because reading oden's journal.
In the current wano arc while the strawhats have take down there first yonko of the sea, there commanders and subordinates. Carrot didn't do anything to help change the tied of the war beside saving Marco. After she save him her fight was completely off screen. None of the strawhats at that point in time came to aid in order to back her up in her current situation. Heck, Luffy isn’t Fixated on wanting her to join the crew. In comparison to Yamato as both King, queen and Jimbei point out by saying who is holding Kaido for now. Why isn't Kaido down here when he should be? Other characters were Curious about Luffy's last message. This is why Yamato is much more of an important character in this arc because without her being involved in the arc it would drastically change. For example, the samurai would lose the will to fight. Luffy would not just lose round 2 against Kaido but his crew and his alliance would be Annihilated, the flower capital would also be destroyed, and this recent chapter also proves that Yamato knows a lot about how Kaido's devil fruit actually works. She is currently helping momo how to create flame clouds in order to save not just the strawhats, but wano, the samurai, and other people in onigashima as well who are currently fighting. Yamato at least is important enough to change the tied of the war and can explain a lot of things that other character spoke previously in the story.
With Yamato situation is more like she was not allowed to live her life the way she wanted to live. She was confined into staying in island throughout her entire life feeling trap mental and physically. Clinging on to hope to someday she would be able to be free from the chains that bounded to this island and go on a adventure. Her traveling allows her to understand herself and having a sense self-discovering possible her own purpose in life for future events in the story moving forward.
In the current wano arc while the strawhats have take down there first yonko of the sea, there commanders and subordinates. Carrot didn't do anything to help change the tied of the war beside saving Marco. After she save him her fight was completely off screen. None of the strawhats at that point in time came to aid in order to back her up in her current situation. Heck, Luffy isn’t Fixated on wanting her to join the crew. In comparison to Yamato as both King, queen and Jimbei point out by saying who is holding Kaido for now. Why isn't Kaido down here when he should be? Other characters were Curious about Luffy's last message. This is why Yamato is much more of an important character in this arc because without her being involved in the arc it would drastically change. For example, the samurai would lose the will to fight. Luffy would not just lose round 2 against Kaido but his crew and his alliance would be Annihilated, the flower capital would also be destroyed, and this recent chapter also proves that Yamato knows a lot about how Kaido's devil fruit actually works. She is currently helping momo how to create flame clouds in order to save not just the strawhats, but wano, the samurai, and other people in onigashima as well who are currently fighting. Yamato at least is important enough to change the tied of the war and can explain a lot of things that other character spoke previously in the story.
With Yamato situation is more like she was not allowed to live her life the way she wanted to live. She was confined into staying in island throughout her entire life feeling trap mental and physically. Clinging on to hope to someday she would be able to be free from the chains that bounded to this island and go on a adventure. Her traveling allows her to understand herself and having a sense self-discovering possible her own purpose in life for future events in the story moving forward.
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Oden didn't laugh. Besides, I don't think it really matters. Becoming PK is also a dream Luffy's been laughed at countless times for, yet Bart cried when he heard Luffy say it.
Because Luffy was seemingly her only option. She knew because of Oden's prophecy that he would come and liberate Wano.
He's not gonna do it solely for a red herring. Yamao will realise that she's better off with Momo. Just like in this chapter when she made the choice to leave Luffy to go and help Momo, I believe she'll also do the same thing at the end of the arc.
Despite his physical growth, Momo's mental maturity is very explicitly still portrayed as a work in progress and in need of assistance. Yamao was that assistance. She's not just his bodyguard, she's literally his guide too. And this isn't the first time this happened either.
Yamao is the figure Momo can look to for support. She's been helping him along the way in his journey. Now in this chapter we even have her teaching him how to better use his devil fruit.
Momo's inherited retainers are beaten and worn out. Missing limbs and some presumed dead. The support he would've had is broken, but he has Yamao there to take their place. As others already pointed out, you literally had the symbolism in this chapter too. Momo prays for Kin emon and Kiku to help him but instead Yamao comes to his aid. Carrying on their role.
At the end of the arc, who will need Yamao more? The straw hats, that will then be a yonko caliber crew. Or the 8 year old with a country in ruin, incapacitated retainers, countless enemies looming, and a world dependant mission on his hands? The answer is very obvious to me.
Because Luffy was seemingly her only option. She knew because of Oden's prophecy that he would come and liberate Wano.
He's not gonna do it solely for a red herring. Yamao will realise that she's better off with Momo. Just like in this chapter when she made the choice to leave Luffy to go and help Momo, I believe she'll also do the same thing at the end of the arc.
Despite his physical growth, Momo's mental maturity is very explicitly still portrayed as a work in progress and in need of assistance. Yamao was that assistance. She's not just his bodyguard, she's literally his guide too. And this isn't the first time this happened either.
Momo's inherited retainers are beaten and worn out. Missing limbs and some presumed dead. The support he would've had is broken, but he has Yamao there to take their place. As others already pointed out, you literally had the symbolism in this chapter too. Momo prays for Kin emon and Kiku to help him but instead Yamao comes to his aid. Carrying on their role.
At the end of the arc, who will need Yamao more? The straw hats, that will then be a yonko caliber crew. Or the 8 year old with a country in ruin, incapacitated retainers, countless enemies looming, and a world dependant mission on his hands? The answer is very obvious to me.
Luffy has been this exact figure for Momo since the very first scene they met. Luffy is a role model for Momo and has been trying to show him how to lead, both directly and indirectly, for nearly 400 chapters now. Momo's character arc is about how he's learning to fill the shoes that were much too big for him. You're saying that the conclusion to his character arc is... he falls short of this, and is only able to become shogun under the guidance of the son of his arch nemesis? It would make more sense to say that Luffy needs to stay with him until he's ready to lead Wano alone.
Correct, yes he has.
No. Momo will be able to stand on his own two feet by the end of Wano. But the point is that even then he will still need help since "doing things with others is always better than doing it alone"... *cringe*.
Oden's fatal flaw was that he was too set on doing things solo. He could get away with it most of the time because he was so strong, but Kaido was the wall he couldn't pass. The entire arc of Wano is about working with others and accepting help, putting aside stubborn samurai pride. It even ties into the whole "open the borders" shebang. It's about Wano collaborating with all the allied nations in the world to fight a common enemy (WG).
Momo's not just suddenly gonna do things on his own when he becomes a capable individual. He's gonna learn from his father's mistakes and continue to accept help, well after he becomes the man he wanted to be.
No. Momo will be able to stand on his own two feet by the end of Wano. But the point is that even then he will still need help since "doing things with others is always better than doing it alone"... *cringe*.
Oden's fatal flaw was that he was too set on doing things solo. He could get away with it most of the time because he was so strong, but Kaido was the wall he couldn't pass. The entire arc of Wano is about working with others and accepting help, putting aside stubborn samurai pride. It even ties into the whole "open the borders" shebang. It's about Wano collaborating with all the allied nations in the world to fight a common enemy (WG).
Momo's not just suddenly gonna do things on his own when he becomes a capable individual. He's gonna learn from his father's mistakes and continue to accept help, well after he becomes the man he wanted to be.
That's why the scabbards are there. Why would Yamato who is also naive and inexperienced due to being a captive her whole life become Momo's personal guide instead of Kinemon? Even if you buy that Kin and Kiku are dead, which I don't, that still leaves 7 scabbards to support Momo.
As far as who needs Yamato more? Luffy 100%. Take away the allies on both sides and the beast pirates stomp the strawhats even post wano. The strawhats needed Yamato, the scabbards including the dukes, Marco, 5 supernovas, an army of Minks and Samurai, and even Tama, while Kaido just gets Perospero who did nothing and Big Mom who has defeated 2 beast pirate executives and 0 alliance members while handing Nami a powerup. Luffy absolutely needs more strong members to fight the Yonko.
As far as who needs Yamato more? Luffy 100%. Take away the allies on both sides and the beast pirates stomp the strawhats even post wano. The strawhats needed Yamato, the scabbards including the dukes, Marco, 5 supernovas, an army of Minks and Samurai, and even Tama, while Kaido just gets Perospero who did nothing and Big Mom who has defeated 2 beast pirate executives and 0 alliance members while handing Nami a powerup. Luffy absolutely needs more strong members to fight the Yonko.
Juxtaposing Oden and Momonosuke is interesting... Oden's fatal flaw was that he was too set on doing things solo, while Momonosuke has done almost nothing but rely on others since his introduction. This is why I see his character arc leading to him being able to act on his own. This is why I think it's important that Yamato was trying to show him how to save Onigashima himself... If she was taking orders from him, then we could have been seeing the beginning of the conclusion of Momo's character arc. As it stands, she was showing continuing Luffy's guidance in his stead.
Also, Yamato can protect him in a battle and teach him how dragon's work, but there's no reason to think she'd be suited to show him how to be a shogun. This is what Hitetsu (cough Sukiyaki) and Hiyori can do for him.
Also, Yamato can protect him in a battle and teach him how dragon's work, but there's no reason to think she'd be suited to show him how to be a shogun. This is what Hitetsu (cough Sukiyaki) and Hiyori can do for him.
This... There has to be a reason why Zoro is setup outside and near the edge of the island...
Don't forget Hiyori... As well as Shinobu...
This... Yamato is the perfect addition to the crew which will challenge BBP, RHP and Marine HQ/WG whose top dogs are way more powerful and hax than what BMP and BP have... She's a character who won't contribute BS/unrealistic PUs in every arc (we have enough SHs getting those), as well as someone with a distinct personality for a female SH (far different from Nami, as well as Robin)...
Don't forget Hiyori... As well as Shinobu...
This... Yamato is the perfect addition to the crew which will challenge BBP, RHP and Marine HQ/WG whose top dogs are way more powerful and hax than what BMP and BP have... She's a character who won't contribute BS/unrealistic PUs in every arc (we have enough SHs getting those), as well as someone with a distinct personality for a female SH (far different from Nami, as well as Robin)...
This I don't understand. How can you recognise that Oden's flaw was doing things on his own, yet also believe Momo is going to develop into someone that does things on his own?
Yep. She was working alongside him and guiding him. Luffy can't stay with Momo forever, and so the role he played for Momo has been transferred over to Yamao. These last couple chapters were essentially the passing of the torch. Passing of the dragon if you will. But Luffy can't stay with Momo forever. He's got his own journey. That's why it would work for someone like Yamao who hasn't begun her journey yet, to do so with Momo the son and successor of the man she admired. Adult Momo seemingly looks just like his father. What would be a better dream come true for Yamao than to sail around and adventure alongside "Oden"?
We've already seen that she can teach him how a shogun should act.
Oda's already shown her unknowingly demonstrating to Momo precisely that. Not the traditional idea of a shogun, but the sort of man Oden was. She's someone that can talk to him like an equal. She doesn't do or the whole "lord Monosuke" song and dance or treat him like glass. It's as Kin emon said back at Zou about Luffy:
When you take into account her strength, her knowledge about Momo's destiny and powers, her personality + dynamic with him, guardian of Wano devil fruit, then she's literally the perfect person to accompany him. That's not even including how much thematic sense it makes and what it would mean for the citizens of Wano and Yamao's backstory. The signs are honestly absolutely overwhelming.
Yep. She was working alongside him and guiding him. Luffy can't stay with Momo forever, and so the role he played for Momo has been transferred over to Yamao. These last couple chapters were essentially the passing of the torch. Passing of the dragon if you will. But Luffy can't stay with Momo forever. He's got his own journey. That's why it would work for someone like Yamao who hasn't begun her journey yet, to do so with Momo the son and successor of the man she admired. Adult Momo seemingly looks just like his father. What would be a better dream come true for Yamao than to sail around and adventure alongside "Oden"?
We've already seen that she can teach him how a shogun should act.
When you take into account her strength, her knowledge about Momo's destiny and powers, her personality + dynamic with him, guardian of Wano devil fruit, then she's literally the perfect person to accompany him. That's not even including how much thematic sense it makes and what it would mean for the citizens of Wano and Yamao's backstory. The signs are honestly absolutely overwhelming.
When we were first introduced to Orochi's and Kanjuro past and Wano's history of persecution of people for the crimes of their ancestors, I immediately thought "Hey, wouldn't it make a lot of sense to have the next shogun work with the child of someone who commited a heinous crime and have them becoming a beloved figure by the citizens to show the country learned from their mistake?" Inititally I thought Tama could fit that role since I saw nobody else and there were some crack theories about her being Oorchi illegitimate daughter, but then the child of an actual daimyo killer (and who accessorily made Wano a total hellhole) was introduced.
Well, my initial thoughts certainly didn't change with the last chapters.
Well, my initial thoughts certainly didn't change with the last chapters.
- Momo must learn to be better than Oden and not repeat his mistakes
- This is why the best person to learn from is someone who idolizes Oden and wants to act exactly like him
anti Yamato mental gymnastics get funnier every week
- This is why the best person to learn from is someone who idolizes Oden and wants to act exactly like him
anti Yamato mental gymnastics get funnier every week
- Momo must learn to be better than Oden and not repeat his mistakes
- This is why the best person to learn from is someone who idolizes Oden and wants to act exactly like him
anti Yamato mental gymnastics get funnier every week
- This is why the best person to learn from is someone who idolizes Oden and wants to act exactly like him
anti Yamato mental gymnastics get funnier every week
Just because Oden had one major flaw, doesn't mean every single part of his character was flawed and should be discarded. Aspiring to be a person similar to Oden, without his major flaw would be the ideal for Momo. That wasn't so hard, was it?
This I don't understand. How can you recognise that Oden's flaw was doing things on his own, yet also believe Momo is going to develop into someone that does things on his own?
Yep. She was working alongside him and guiding him. Luffy can't stay with Momo forever, and so the role he played for Momo has been transferred over to Yamao. These last couple chapters were essentially the passing of the torch. Passing of the dragon if you will. But Luffy can't stay with Momo forever. He's got his own journey. That's why it would work for someone like Yamao who hasn't begun her journey yet, to do so with Momo the son and successor of the man she admired. Adult Momo seemingly looks just like his father. What would be a better dream come true for Yamao than to sail around and adventure alongside "Oden"?
We've already seen that she can teach him how a shogun should act.
Oda's already shown her unknowingly demonstrating to Momo precisely that. Not the traditional idea of a shogun, but the sort of man Oden was. She's someone that can talk to him like an equal. She doesn't do or the whole "lord Monosuke" song and dance or treat him like glass. It's as Kin emon said back at Zou about Luffy:
When you take into account her strength, her knowledge about Momo's destiny and powers, her personality + dynamic with him, guardian of Wano devil fruit, then she's literally the perfect person to accompany him. That's not even including how much thematic sense it makes and what it would mean for the citizens of Wano and Yamao's backstory. The signs are honestly absolutely overwhelming.
Yep. She was working alongside him and guiding him. Luffy can't stay with Momo forever, and so the role he played for Momo has been transferred over to Yamao. These last couple chapters were essentially the passing of the torch. Passing of the dragon if you will. But Luffy can't stay with Momo forever. He's got his own journey. That's why it would work for someone like Yamao who hasn't begun her journey yet, to do so with Momo the son and successor of the man she admired. Adult Momo seemingly looks just like his father. What would be a better dream come true for Yamao than to sail around and adventure alongside "Oden"?
We've already seen that she can teach him how a shogun should act.
When you take into account her strength, her knowledge about Momo's destiny and powers, her personality + dynamic with him, guardian of Wano devil fruit, then she's literally the perfect person to accompany him. That's not even including how much thematic sense it makes and what it would mean for the citizens of Wano and Yamao's backstory. The signs are honestly absolutely overwhelming.
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